Not the book I want to write

sunandshadow · Jul 28, 2005

Ok, what do you do when you have made an outline or synopsis for your novel and you look it over and say, "Yuck. This isn't working. This isn't capturing my original inspiration. This is not the book I want to write."?

stormie · Jul 28, 2005

Throw away the outline or synopsis and go with your gut. Let the story and characters take you where they want to.

Mistook · Jul 28, 2005

sunandshadow said:
Ok, what do you do when you have made an outline or synopsis for your novel and you look it over and say, "Yuck. This isn't working. This isn't capturing my original inspiration. This is not the book I want to write."?

Well... you've ruled out one way you don't want to go

If outlining from the start seems to kill the inspiration, then I'd say just start writing and see what happens. You might find it's easier for you to write without an outline. On the other hand, you might get to a point where it makes sense to rough out a new outline.

Some people jump around in the early stages, writing different parts of the story and filling in the gaps later. Just find an approach that works for you and keeps the ideas flowing.

Christine N. · Jul 28, 2005

Somebody has that Stephen King quote in their sig. The one about "You can say I'm going to write this story the way I want it, and get my A S S kicked, or I can sit back and let the story tell itself the way it wants to be told."

Always good advice. Or... figure out where it went awry from the way you envisioned it, and start from there.

OR.. write this story the way it wants to be told and then try another one, maybe that will be the story that you wanted in the first place.

azbikergirl · Jul 28, 2005

That happened to me, but I didn't realize it wasn't the right story until after the first draft was completely written. I dropped the characters I didn't like, took the ones I did and started from scratch. Draft 2 wasn't quite right, either, but it was much closer. Draft 3 was much better -- still not perfect (I changed about 30% of it before I was done), but finally I got the story I wanted.

Good that you recognized it this early! I might see if I could identify the point at which things begin to go in the 'wrong' direction. Maybe from that point, outline the last few scenes of the story I had in mind, and then fill in the parts in between. Maybe add or remove a character in order to bump things in a different direction.

ricaykw · Jul 28, 2005

I am not an expert at all on this subject, so my method is by no means a tried and true one, but I am happy to share it: When I start writing a novel I make a very very rough outline so I get a feel for where it's going, but I don't force myself to stick to it, I just use it as a map when I'm lost. Then every night when I finish writing for the day, I make a list of the scenes I want to write the next day. This way I'm thinking of the scenes while I'm still in the writing zone so they tend to flow better and it gives me a goal to work towards the next day.

sunandshadow · Jul 28, 2005

It's not that the outline's killing my inspiration - the parts I'm happy with I'm very eager to write. And writing without an outline doesn't work for me personally because if I do that I always end up with something plotless.

The problem is that the outline is maybe 70% good and 30% bad. It doesn't ring true, it doesn't have unity from beginning to end, there are places where I have no idea what should be happening (which suggests the greater underlying problem that my worldbuilding is missing details) and at 60 chapters its probably too long (my chapters tend to run about 3,000 words). This is the second version of the outline, and the first revision improved it, but not enough.

So I think Christine N. and azbikergirl are right, I have to figure out where it's going wrong. That's a complicated problem because it's not like the plot went awry at a particular point, it's that the underlying pattern isn't strong enough, I think. I guess I'll go stare at it some more and try to see what's wrong, but if anyone has and outline-revision or inspiration-capturing technique tips, please share. :Shrug:

Mistook · Jul 28, 2005

sunandshadow said:
It's not that the outline's killing my inspiration - the parts I'm happy with I'm very eager to write. And writing without an outline doesn't work for me personally because if I do that I always end up with something plotless.

The problem is that the outline is maybe 70% good and 30% bad. It doesn't ring true, it doesn't have unity from beginning to end, there are places where I have no idea what should be happening (which suggests the greater underlying problem that my worldbuilding is missing details) and at 60 chapters its probably too long (my chapters tend to run about 3,000 words). This is the second version of the outline, and the first revision improved it, but not enough.

So I think Christine N. and azbikergirl are right, I have to figure out where it's going wrong. That's a complicated problem because it's not like the plot went awry at a particular point, it's that the underlying pattern isn't strong enough, I think. I guess I'll go stare at it some more and try to see what's wrong, but if anyone has and outline-revision or inspiration-capturing technique tips, please share.

I want to say the story needs an interesting sub-plot, but if you have worries that it's already too long, you're looking at a lot of work to fit it in.

I still suggest you take a break from the outline and write a few of the chapters you're confident about, just to get a feel for the story. Sometimes you don't see something until you're actually there "in the moment" so does speak. There could be an unforseen character waiting in the wings - or it may occur to you that an already planned character has some unseen dimension or secret.

The world building is another aspect which can come better when you're actually writing a chapter. You may realize some fact of daily life in this world holds the key to an interesting twist.

hpoppink · Jul 28, 2005

A few suggestions:

Get away from your outline; chances are you know it well by now anyway.

Find a new way of looking at the story you have already planned. I relate it to solving a puzzle; sometimes if you tilt your head the right way, you see it differently and the solution comes in a sudden burst.

You might try writing a synopsis of your story, based on your memory of your outline. Let it be as long as it has to be, and don't worry about making it sound good. Just tell the story. See if the gaps start to "fill themselves" so to speak.

You could also try speaking into a tape recorder.

Jamesaritchie · Jul 29, 2005

Outline

I guess I'd say that an outline is not a book. Go ahead and start writing the book. Things will certainly change as you write. Se what happens. You mightbe surprised at how the outline and the book are different.

zornhau · Jul 29, 2005

Assuming you are happy working from an outline...

sunandshadow said:
Ok, what do you do when you have made an outline or synopsis for your novel and you look it over and say, "Yuck. This isn't working. This isn't capturing my original inspiration. This is not the book I want to write."?

Fix the outline! That's the whole point of having one. If it doesn't contain your original inspiration, put the inspiration in.

The following works for me:

Close your eyes. Visualise the story as if you'd just watched it at the cinema. Then write your outline as if you were telling the story to a mate:

Beatrice is a lonely 30-something librarian who's desperate for love, but stuck looking after her passive aggressive hypochondriac mother. One day the man of her dreams comes to consult the reference section, but her shift ends before she can speak to him...

Put in all the iconic good bits that are part of your inspiration. Again, close your eyes and visualise:

So, Uzi 9mm in elegantly manicured fingers, soaked by the Dutch rain, she runs naked through the Amsterdam red light district, and catches up with him. However...

Try to use as many instances of words like "but", "however", and "unfortunately" as possible. You might find playing the right soundtrack on your CD player helps.

Good luck.
Z

Zolah · Jul 29, 2005

stormie said:
Throw away the outline or synopsis and go with your gut. Let the story and characters take you where they want to.

I think you're exactly right. This just happened to me - I had the first chapter done and a detailed synopsis, and I had been waiting to write this story for years. But when I finally started...it just went all WRONG. I couldn't believe it! I'd been looking forward to working on this for years, and now I realised it was crap!

I deleted the chapter, chucked the synopsis, and started afresh. 10k in now and going strong, just working from my instinct - and letting my main character go the way she wants. I've never worked like this before, and it's quite frightening, especially as all these unexpected things keep popping out...but it seems to be working. Fingers crossed it'll keep on working.

zornhau · Jul 29, 2005

Zolah said:
I couldn't believe it! I'd been looking forward to working on this for years, and now I realised it was crap!

I deleted the chapter, chucked the synopsis, and started afresh.

Yes, but that just means your outline was crap!

Zolah · Jul 29, 2005

Well, more that my original treatment of the idea was crap. Hopefully now I've found a better way to explore it.

Julie Worth · Jul 29, 2005

zornhau said:
So, Uzi 9mm in elegantly manicured fingers, soaked by the Dutch rain, she runs naked through the Amsterdam red light district, and catches up with him. However...

Love the image!

zornhau said:
Try to use as many instances of words like "but", "however", and "unfortunately" as possible.

What's the theory?

zornhau said:
You might find playing the right soundtrack on your CD player helps.

Doesn't work for me. Probably because I don't hear anything while writing.

Lenora Rose · Jul 29, 2005

I think the logic of wanting to see a lot of "however" and "but" in a synopsis is that these words imply something going wrong, or the protagonist having a hard time accomplishing his goal -- plot twists, personality clashes, and the like.

Since these complications are the things that make a plot interesting, I can understand the advice, although I'd be wary of taking it too literally, and if I used that as a way to craft the first draft of a synopsis, I'd be watching in the second draft for overuse of them.

sunandshadow · Jul 29, 2005

Mistook said:
I want to say the story needs an interesting sub-plot, but if you have worries that it's already too long, you're looking at a lot of work to fit it in.

Lol, it has plenty of subplots already, I wouldn't dare add another, it might mutate into a trilogy.

Hmm, maybe I should remove a subplot... that would make it shorter and more unified, but would I be losing anything essential...? That's something to ponder.

Sharon Mock · Jul 30, 2005

I can't help but think part of the problem is that you've lost faith in your ability to tell a story. You've said before that you need a detailed and structured outline because your previous attempts have ended up as a plotless mass. All that means, though, is that you're still learning how to tell a story properly. No, plot and structure do not come naturally to all "true" writers, and yes, storytelling can be learned.

You say you have 70% of the story you want to tell? Sounds like a good start to me. The missing stuff may become clear as you write. If not, that's what revision is for. My motto with the current WIP has been "Fix it in post." (How well that will work in the end is, admittedly, still uncertain.)

Or you can set the outline aside and try telling yourself the story, asking yourself only two questions: What is the story I want to tell? and What happens next?

Or, well, whatever else works for you. The most important thing at this point is to have some trust and faith in yourself as a writer. Otherwise, you won't be able to get out of your own way.

(... and if it sounds like I'm coming from a position of authority, feel free to laugh in my face ...)

Mistook · Jul 30, 2005

sunandshadow said:
Lol, it has plenty of subplots already, I wouldn't dare add another, it might mutate into a trilogy. Hmm, maybe I should remove a subplot... that would make it shorter and more unified, but would I be losing anything essential...? That's something to ponder.

Well... now we're getting to the good stuff. You didn't portray it as having multiple subplots at first. In this particular mire, I can only talk to you as a fellow wader, up to my armpits in subplot.

I know I had a great idea for an "intro" to my WIP that originally spanned a single chapter. On a re-write, it went into three chapters, but it wasn't good enough. After the second re-write, my "intro" expanded to 50K words, and was only half told. That's when I realized it was actually a prequel. I set it asside and went back to the main story I had been trying to tell.

Now I'm at the point where the ending chapters might easily expand into their own novel. I'm still not decided yet, because I haven't quite gotten to writing this part - but the rough outline, and the draft-synopsis tell me I'm still working with more than one novel's worth of material.

Sometimes a whole universe is compressed into a single idea.

Mistook · Jul 30, 2005

As far as outlining goes, I know it's not a novel, but I caught "Back to the Future" on cable tonight. For me it's a well-loved movie from my youth, but it's a wonderful example of an intricate plot.

Every last movement of Marty McFly... every word of dialogue is intimately tied to the plot. There is no way in the world that this screenplay... this story was generated on the fly and tweaked a bit after the fact.

The lady trying to save the clock tower shoves a flyer at Marty - it has all the information about the exact time of a lightning strike, and his girlfriend writes some love note on the back of it - which is all that makes it important to him at that moment, so he shoves it into his pocket.

When he's back in 1955, and Doc Brown is fretting over 1.21 Gigawatts, Marty pulls out the flyer, only to show him how much his girl loves him, and then the answer is clear. They can use the lightning bolt to generate the needed energy.

That kind of super-tight, seamless plotting happens all through that movie. Not a single word is wasted, and it all comes off in a manner that is as unlikely as it is perfectly calculated. I loved that movie at 16, and I still love it at 36. It really is possible to have a great plot with real human drama.

sunandshadow · Jul 30, 2005

Sharon Mock said:
I can't help but think part of the problem is that you've lost faith in your ability to tell a story. You've said before that you need a detailed and structured outline because your previous attempts have ended up as a plotless mass. All that means, though, is that you're still learning how to tell a story properly. No, plot and structure do not come naturally to all "true" writers, and yes, storytelling can be learned.

Well, perhaps storytelling can be learned, but I've always been terrible at verbal storytelling. I was thinking the same thing in response to Zornhau's post earlier, that if I were to summarise my story verbally for a friend the result would be a lot bigger mess than the half-baked outline I currently have.

Out of order, long rambling descriptions of the parts I particularly liked, poor timing so none of my jokes are funny, totally skipping the boring but important bits, my audience wandering away or trying to change the subject...

So no, I have no faith in my ability as a storyteller because I'm always getting feedback telling me I'm horrible at it. But I do have faith in my ability as a designer, because people often tell me my designs are brilliant, unique, creative, elegant, etc. I'm not good at talking, but I'm a more visual person, I like to see my words and be able to push them around until they make a nice pattern. I have a completed story I'm particularly proud of because every paragraph helps weave the story's pattern and advance the story, and people love that story and have been known to beg for a sequel.

I want my outline to feel the same way, because then I'll know that the novel written from it will keep readers interested and not have any major structural flaws.

sunandshadow · Jul 30, 2005

Mistook said:
Well... now we're getting to the good stuff. You didn't portray it as having multiple subplots at first. In this particular mire, I can only talk to you as a fellow wader, up to my armpits in subplot.

It might be more accurate to describe mine as having 4 parallel plots actually. Perhaps you've seen a first person romance novel where the viewpoint alternates between the hero and the heroine, so that it's actually two interwoven stories - each character is the protagonist during their own plot thread, but the romantic object character during the other's plot thread? Mine is like that times 2, because it's a double romance, giving me four interwoven stories. So yeah, up to my armpits in plots describes me pretty well.

Its a problem though if I'm failing to describe my outline crearly enough that people can give good advice about it. Kind of defeats the purpose of the thread. I would post the outline itself, but 1) it's in the middle of a revision, I'm only happy with the first 8 chapters (of approximately 50), 2) when it's done it will be several pages long, and 3) being sff it wouldn't make any sense unless you read several more pages of my worldbuilding first. So I'm not sure what to do about that.

Jamesaritchie · Jul 30, 2005

Mistook said:
Every last movement of Marty McFly... every word of dialogue is intimately tied to the plot. There is no way in the world that this screenplay... this story was generated on the fly and tweaked a bit after the fact.

I don't know how it was writtten, but there's no reason on earth to think it couldn't have been written on the fly and then tweaked. Especially with screenplays, you simply do not get this kind of a seamless plot from an outline or a treatment. I'd be willing to bet there were huge differences in the original treatment and the finished product.

But the plot is just not that complicated, well done, but not at all complicated, and the way things are tied together is perfect for writing on the fly and then tweaking.

Though screenplays are not novels, and darned few finished screenplays resemble the treatment or outline to any large degree. Tweaking is where screenplays are born, which is one reason so many screenplays go through several writers and sometimes a "doctor," and then the director before a shooting script is in hand. Even actors are often involved in making changes to screenplays, and what you see on paper is very seldom what you get on screen.

DebMcTexas · Jul 30, 2005

The ending...

An author friend of mine says she always knows what the ending will be. She creates characters and a basic conflict. Then she writes the ending. How she gets from the beginning to the climax is the adventure for her.

When I first heard her talk about this I was appalled. How could she know the ending? But now that I've mulled it over for a few months, I'm beginning to understand. In my new WIP, I have a strong idea of what the ending scenes will be. I kinda have a feel for the beginning. Now if I can only work through that pesky middle part.....

scribbler1382 · Jul 30, 2005

Mistook said:
The lady trying to save the clock tower shoves a flyer at Marty - it has all the information about the exact time of a lightning strike, and his girlfriend writes some love note on the back of it - which is all that makes it important to him at that moment, so he shoves it into his pocket.

Why is this hard to believe? You're galloping along, writing McFly "on the fly" <sorry> and you get to a point where Doc and Marty need to know EXACTLY when the clock gets zapped. "Crap! How the hell do they know this?" You ask yourself. Then it comes to you, so you jump in your Delorian, crank the sucker up to 85 and flux your A S S back to the start of the book and add a throwaway lady passing out flyers. Poifect! And hell, while you're here, let's have his girlfriend write a love note on the back of thing...perfect reason for him to hang onto it. Then you jump back in your car and ZOOM, you're back where you were and writing on the fly.

Seems pretty believeable to me, if not particularly fuel efficient.

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