The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

robeiae · Apr 6, 2005

Crystal Rivers said:
Anyway, here's another stinkin' thinkin' link . http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11898.htm

Not being a published author, I can't be sure I'm right about this but...
It seems that many PA authors have the very unhealthy habit of viewing themselves as PA Authors. I don't think published authors, in general, have any great loyalty to their publishers; if they did, you would never see them changing publishers (sometimes for specific issues with a particualr product). Even POD authors switch companies from time to time. What would seem to be a major difference between PA and everyone else, in my limited experience, is actually the existence of the author message boards at PA. Their very existence serves to create the unusual solidarity the afflicts the authors there. New authors jump on, throwing up (no pun intended) marketing ideas and other suggestions. Other new authors say "Great Idea" or "Thanks" or "Count me in", none knowing that the ideas have been hashed and re-hashed by the old-timers who, when they begin to break ranks, are banned. An ugly pattern, but one that seems difficult to break. Why? No matter how much info is out there about how bad PA is, these boards continue to run; it's not that they are necassarily populated by people like our old friend who spout the company line; rather, it the fact that they create a communal feelings among the authors-simple friendship, in the end, can override common sense.

Rob

Patricia · Apr 6, 2005

Seems some unwittingly dispute PA's "traditional" standards.

Peruse again.

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11898.htm

realitychuck · Apr 6, 2005

I do like this from that thread:

It seems that some PA authors must read something into the contract that is not there.

No. We are reading what IS there -- and indicating that there is plenty of room for fraud and disappointment (items that PA is all to happy to supply.)

Literary Lola · Apr 6, 2005

DaveKuzminski said:
Maybe we should come up with a 12-step program for PA general partners?

Marvelous idea, Dave.

Step 1: Go jump off a cliff and spare novice writers the trouble of being fleeced.

Christine N. · Apr 6, 2005

Yeah, Shelagh (if I spelled that wrong, I'm sorry!) really put her foot in her mouth with that one. Or perhaps she knows the real deal, and is happy with it.

Hey, I submitted my query electronically, my ms.... well, no, I actually mailed that. I'm not sure how my proofs will come, since I haven't gotten them yet, but another book that I was a part of by the same publisher, the proofs came electronically.

I love technology, saves alot of paper. But my book will still be in stores! And I won't have to do the work to put them there.

ResearchGuy · Apr 6, 2005

Publishing's Alternate Universe

robeiae said:
...It seems that many PA authors have the very unhealthy habit of viewing themselves as PA Authors....

That has finally moved me to post link to:
http://www.umbachconsulting.com/drafts/PublishingsAlternateUniverse.pdf
(use username hidden and password flatulence--good until I change one or the other or both). That is my essay on the phenomenon discussed on this board. I had thought about looking for an outlet for it, but it is probably too idiosyncratic for any periodical I can think of, certainly for any paying one. In any event, it distills what I had observed before joining this board. Nothing I have read here has changed my views.

The username and password, by the way, were simply random words that popped into my head (Dr. Freud, call your office?) on the spur of the moment.

--Ken

underthecity · Apr 6, 2005

Back to this thread

Check out this thread one more time, and read post #5. That's us!

Once again, another poster sees nothing past the "bashing." Nothing. Eyes closed, ears covered. Doesn't want to know about it.

Sigh.

Then there's post #6.

utc

Sheryl Nantus · Apr 6, 2005

underthecity said:
Check out this thread one more time, and read post #5. That's us!

Once again, another poster sees nothing past the "bashing." Nothing. Eyes closed, ears covered. Doesn't want to know about it.

Sigh.

Then there's post #6.

utc

the ignorance is astounding, isn't it?

and if they only came here and POSTED, instead of slinking away in their lurker mode to whine on their censored boards, we'd be able to give them the right answers...

hear that?

yep, PA authors - we ain't going to DELETE YOUR POSTS if we don't like what you say. We're not going to BAN YOU FROM THE BOARD if you disagree with us.

now try to post THAT on the PA boards and see how long it stays up.

pity.

Sher2 · Apr 6, 2005

underthecity said:
Check out this thread one more time, and read post #5. That's us!

Once again, another poster sees nothing past the "bashing." Nothing. Eyes closed, ears covered. Doesn't want to know about it.

Sigh.

Then there's post #6.

utc

Okay, you made me look.

I think, and I have always thought, that those folks are misinformed as to the definition of "bashing." In my opinion, bashing is making unkind and hurtful remarks, gestures, and actions towards a person or group of persons. What's happening here on this board is discussion -- discussion of a rogue company that bears close scrutiny. That's why it's categorized under "Bewares." This company lies to people, takes advantage of people, and hurts people. It's hurting those people, the ones over there on the Poz boards, but they're too naive to see it. We're not hurting them or threatening them. The aim here is to help them, because they don't know enough to help themselves. It just makes my blood boil when someone is too self-righteous and insulated and -- dare I say it? -- cultish, to accept help when it's offered.

I may start swearing again. I'll try to stay away from sailors, though.

Patricia · Apr 6, 2005

Sher2 said:
Okay, you made me look.

I think, and I have always thought, that those folks are misinformed as to the definition of "bashing."

Sher, the phase was made popular by he "who no longer lives." :crazy:

Sparhawk · Apr 6, 2005

My two cents.... plus inflation

How truly blind is the person who refuses to see that which is right in front of him.

Or... You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

Or... Ignorance is bliss.

The post for or the business plan for this bookstore was mine, because I am generally interested in seeijng the list of revenue assumptions and well as the assumed expenses. There is so much involved in this kind of undertaking AND I cannot empahcize how all of the "i",s have to be dotted and the "t"'s need to be crossed.

If so many people contribute their books, which in my mind equates to investment capital, they will be the only ones hurt when the establishment goes belly up. IF the store is in debt to creditors than those books are considered viable, tangible assets that can be liquidated to cover accrued debt. Which means the writer who contributed the book loses his investment and then the only entity making a profit will be the publisher... the Authors get the proverbial shaft. PA or NOT, I can't in good conscious not post what I did. I've seen it happen to too many associates, they get involved in a dream, wind up investing hard earned dollars only to get torpedoed when it comes to light that the "Entrepenuer" failed perform the proper due diligence. I've seen some good people lose their savings and one person their home on bad investments.

I don't want to see some poor writer geting excited over what I feel is a bad business prospect only to lose their books and their money. They're already involved in one bad business decision, why compound an error in judgement with another one.

-Sparhawk

DeePower · Apr 6, 2005

Well that thread on the PA MB is going to go anyway

So I might as well say it. Did you ever think that, perhaps, one of the posters was trying to get PA authors over here?

Check out this thread one more time, and read post #5. That's us!

Dee

Kate Nepveu · Apr 6, 2005

Dear all, within the last few weeks, someone here posted a reference to finding his or her own PA book in a bookstore without having spoken to the manager about it, and said something about still not knowing how that happened.

Who/where was that? You don't need to repost the information, just give me a username or a link.

Thanks.

Sheryl Nantus · Apr 6, 2005

Sparhawk said:
How truly blind is the person who refuses to see that which is right in front of him.

Or... You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

Or... Ignorance is bliss.

The post for or the business plan for this bookstore was mine, because I am generally interested in seeijng the list of revenue assumptions and well as the assumed expenses. There is so much involved in this kind of undertaking AND I cannot empahcize how all of the "i",s have to be dotted and the "t"'s need to be crossed.

If so many people contribute their books, which in my mind equates to investment capital, they will be the only ones hurt when the establishment goes belly up. IF the store is in debt to creditors than those books are considered viable, tangible assets that can be liquidated to cover accrued debt. Which means the writer who contributed the book loses his investment and then the only entity making a profit will be the publisher... the Authors get the proverbial shaft. PA or NOT, I can't in good conscious not post what I did. I've seen it happen to too many associates, they get involved in a dream, wind up investing hard earned dollars only to get torpedoed when it comes to light that the "Entrepenuer" failed perform the proper due diligence. I've seen some good people lose their savings and one person their home on bad investments.

I don't want to see some poor writer geting excited over what I feel is a bad business prospect only to lose their books and their money. They're already involved in one bad business decision, why compound an error in judgement with another one.

-Sparhawk

this comment here floored me: "Having said that I am willing to show you how to stock the shop without books and use merchandise for profit. I will also show you how to attract customers by providing a free service."

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how that could be done.

and the fact that no one seems to be willing, other than yourself, to call the instigator on the cold hard facts.

*shakes head*

Patricia · Apr 6, 2005

DeePower said:
So I might as well say it. Did you ever think that, perhaps, one of the posters was trying to get PA authors over here?

Check out this thread one more time, and read post #5. That's us!

Dee

...and I think poster number 3 is making a good point too!

AnneMarble · Apr 6, 2005

DeePower said:
So I might as well say it. Did you ever think that, perhaps, one of the posters was trying to get PA authors over here?

Check out this thread one more time, and read post #5. That's us!

I wondered about that because he said nice things about the rest of the board.

I can imagine VoldePrint executives -- what do they have by now, a dozen?

-- reading his post and arguing about whether or not to delete it.

"We have to remove it and ban him. He mentioned the Board That Must Not Be Named."

"But he did not mention it by name. And he said bad things about the bashers."

"But he said good things about the board. It is written that one must never speaketh good about the board."

Is it just me, or do they start to sound like village elders in the movie "The Village," only without the compassion and concern? Actually maybe the PA message board is a lot like that movie. Maybe AW is the forest where they weren't allowed, and we are the creatures they have gotten everybody stirred up about.

Look, I'm posting in the bad color.
:wag:

Sher2 · Apr 6, 2005

Ann said:
Sher, the phase was made popular by he "who no longer lives."

Oh, I know it, honey. That Undead thing was sucking the life out of people long before he croaked.

Sher2 · Apr 6, 2005

AnneMarble said:
Is it just me, or do they start to sound like village elders in the movie "The Village," only without the compassion and concern? Actually maybe the PA message board is a lot like that movie. Maybe AW is the forest where they weren't allowed, and we are the creatures they have gotten everybody stirred up about.

That's exactly what it sounds like, Anne. You've nailed it perfectly. :Clap:

ResearchGuy · Apr 6, 2005

Sparhawk said:
... Or... Ignorance is bliss....

Folks tend to forget (or never learned) the context:

"Thought would destroy their paradise!
No more; where ignorance is bliss,
'Tis folly to be wise."

(Thomas Gray, 1716-71, "Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College")

--Ken (with thanks to The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations + http://www.bartleby.com/40/286.html, to which I suggest a visit for the whole poem)

Galoot · Apr 6, 2005

Crystal Rivers said:
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11898.htm

Let me translate post #9.

La-la-la-la-la

I can't hear you!

Sher2 · Apr 6, 2005

Galoot said:
Let me translate post #9.

La-la-la-la-la

I can't hear you!

In the absence of the Official Translator, let me just say I read you loud and clear.

It's like the universal language -- la-la-la-la-la.

Sassenach · Apr 6, 2005

ResearchGuy said:
"It was my idea a few years ago to have STBX or Blockbuster, as I had suggested the concepts to others, so those freinds [sic] who are now investors asked me for new ideas."

So, this guy is claiming credit for the "idea" of Starbucks and of Blockbuster, and now his new "idea" is an all PublishAmerica bookstore. I hope that he and his investor "freinds" (sic) do very well. But is it completely off base to suspect some, shall we say, "issues"?

Stores...selling coffee...a whole bunch of them. Wait!! I thought of that a while back, but I forgot to tell anyone.

lucyishome · Apr 6, 2005

Sassenach said:
Stores...selling coffee...a whole bunch of them. Wait!! I thought of that a while back, but I forgot to tell anyone.

Thats kind of like Al Gore invented the internet.

:hi:

astonwest · Apr 6, 2005

Literary Lola said:
Step 1: Go jump off a cliff and spare novice writers the trouble of being fleeced.

Errrr, you forgot steps 2-12...
Although, they all read the same:

Step 2: Repeat as necessary.
Step 3: Repeat...
...

Kate Nepveu said:
Dear all, within the last few weeks, someone here posted a reference to finding his or her own PA book in a bookstore without having spoken to the manager about it, and said something about still not knowing how that happened.

Who/where was that? You don't need to repost the information, just give me a username or a link.

Not sure if you're talking about this one or not...but I'll reiterate what I said in the original post, that the store in question closed down. I haven't gone across town to the other B. Dalton to see if it was transferred or not.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=146355#post146355

reph · Apr 6, 2005

From a post on the thread most recently cited:

It just doesn't make any sense to me. Surely, if
authors are so keen to see their books on
shelves, they should have persisted with
finding a traditional publisher.
I find all this whinging more than slightly
irritating.
But tomorrow is another day and I will have
forgotten all about it and start a new day
afresh!

How do PA authors remain happy with their publisher? There you have it. Dementia!

Okay, now, different topic: bashing. Presenting facts isn't bashing, but that's not all that happens here at The Thread That Doesn't Officially Exist. I can see how "bashing" might apply to ridiculing the owners of PA and making up derogatory nicknames.

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Touch and go

California Dreaming

Hack Writer

haz a shiny new book cover

Resident Curmudgeon

Finestkind

Holding out for a Superhero...

Auroraless ExPAtriate

California Dreaming

Jenna's Cabana Boy

DeePower

Vacuumer of Cats

Holding out for a Superhero...

California Dreaming

Nefarious Ghost Fan

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Resident Curmudgeon

I am a pretty pretty flower

Auroraless ExPAtriate

5 W's & an H

2 WIP? A glutton for punishment

Fig of authority