All Things Middle Grade

Britwriter

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You know, I've noticed that particular word is extremely limited in MG. I spotted it once in a novel the other day and I was a bit surprised. It seems like you can get away with one, especially in upper MG. but as it's a direct stand in for the real f-word, you have to be sparing I think.

One of my fourth grade pals has coined an even more audacious alternative, "What the fart?" And I can't decide if it's more or less appropriate.

Yep, I think you're right. Just the fact it's a stand in makes it tricky.

I'll find something different. It's invariably true that when I highlight a word or phrase and keep coming back to it and don't feel comfortable, it needs to go.

It's hard, though, writing dialogue for a 12 yo boy MC and keeping the language clean enough for lower MG.

Thanks!
 

jvc

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Hi, everyone. :)

Since the last two books I've written have been MG, I thought I'd pop into this thread to say hello. I'm currently just beginning to query the most recent of the two.

I've been hovering in this thread for a few days, and everyone has been so helpful and friendly that I just had to jump in!
:hi: Welcome to the Writing for Kids forum, forshmonster.
 

MsJudy

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Got another interesting bookstore-related story.

Anybody ever heard of the Espresso Book Machine? One of my local indies just got one. Like a giant Xerox/book-binding machine. Supposedly can print out a copy of ANY book, trade or self-published, in about 10 minutes.

Since kidlit is slower to embrace ereaders, this might be a big boon for self-publishers--easier to get hard copies into the hands of kids. Of course, marketing is still the issue--getting people to hear about, and want, your book.

Another interesting development that bears watching, I believe.

More info here: http://www.bookshopsantacruz.com/espresso-book-machine
 

playground

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Got another interesting bookstore-related story.

Anybody ever heard of the Espresso Book Machine? One of my local indies just got one. Like a giant Xerox/book-binding machine. Supposedly can print out a copy of ANY book, trade or self-published, in about 10 minutes.

Since kidlit is slower to embrace ereaders, this might be a big boon for self-publishers--easier to get hard copies into the hands of kids. Of course, marketing is still the issue--getting people to hear about, and want, your book.

Another interesting development that bears watching, I believe.

More info here: http://www.bookshopsantacruz.com/espresso-book-machine



I think another interesting thing that will help self publishing is a site called kickstarter.com. Has anyone else heard about it? I LOVE this. Basically, for those that don't know it's a site where someone signs up and asks for a certain amount of money (let's say $2,000) and you explain what you would use the money for. You set a time limit (let's say 60 days). You have to gain the amount you asked for in that time limit or you don't get ANY of the money. Within that you usually say what an individual will get if they donate a certain amount. This is definitely something that will help with self-publishing.

People should definitely check this site out if you haven't seen it. Definitely the way of the future.
 

profen4

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Well, I've gotten two beta readers so far for my MG novel that I mentioned before up thread (here:
) And so far the opinion is split right down the middle. The first said it was too dark, and that some of the character's penchants for violence would keep her from letting her daughter read the book, and the other thought it wasn't too dark at all (though she said it did have some dark characters that were creepy), and would love to let her daughter and son (8 and 9 respectively) read the book. Two more betas, I think, and then it's time to query. quan ao thoi trang han quoc ao lot nu do so sinh khac thoi trang cong so gia re thoi trang cong so gia re trang phuc co dien
 
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timp67

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Good luck, forshmonster! Querying can be tough. Don't be afraid to come here and vent, if you need to. :)
 

JoyMC

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Well, I've gotten two beta readers so far for my MG novel that I mentioned before up thread (here:) And so far the opinion is split right down the middle. ... Two more betas, I think, and then it's time to query.

That can end up being the case even among agents, editors, and reviewers. The manuscript I'm currently querying prompted one agent to say I "absolutely nailed the middle grade voice" while another agent said "the voice didn't quite ring true for middle grade." Both highly respected agents. :Shrug: So yeah, a couple more opinions are probably a good idea, but after that ... you just go with your gut! Good luck!
 

Marzipan

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My 13-year-old godson has finally become conscious of his general appearance, and I have no idea how it started, but we were on the topic of what kind of skin we would have if we could change from normal 'human' skin.

So I was joking with him and telling him he could have polka-dots or rock monster skin and he wants me to describe what they would look like.

XD Oh kids.
 

rejectME

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Hi folks,
I have a couple questions.
1. Can MG readers be beta readers if I want to see if their attention is kept and they like the story or is that not wise?
2. If I have a male protagonist and the story is mostly an adventure with some ghosts, what genre does it fit into?

Thanks!
Jerry
 

Laura J

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I have had two MG kids read my WIP. If you can get them to be honest, I think it is helpful. I had to really stress that they wouldn't hurt my feelings. I found a couple of 'it's boring here' spots. I guess they are alphas, not betas.
 

profen4

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Hi folks,
I have a couple questions.
1. Can MG readers be beta readers if I want to see if their attention is kept and they like the story or is that not wise?
2. If I have a male protagonist and the story is mostly an adventure with some ghosts, what genre does it fit into?

Thanks!
Jerry

1. Sure. Why not? It's actually a good idea to test your MG novels on kids, if you have access to some willing participants. It would be a good idea to get some adult beta readers too, just because they're more likely to notice grammar issues ...etc.

2. I'd probably call it a MG adventure fantasy, or MG paranormal adventure.

do boi nu goi cam do lot nu dep ta so sinh quan ao ban buon quan ao ban buon cho thue trang phuc chup anh
here's a website that might help, too:

http://www.bisg.org/what-we-do-0-100-bisac-subject-headings-list-fiction.php
 
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MsJudy

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Of course you can use kids as readers. Just be aware that there's a limit to how helpful they may be. In general, I think people who aren't writers themselves are better at pointing out things that don't quite work than they are at suggesting how to fix it.

I found that my MG readers love everything I do. Agents are a bit more critical...
 

rejectME

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Thank you for the answers folks. My intent with the young readers - with the help of their parents - is that they don't know who wrote it, so they won't have the same bias. Additionally, I know the limits of their critique and I just really want to see if the story resonates with boys and girls. I'll let the agents rip it apart when I'm done. LOL!
 

Britwriter

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I have lots of kids read my work. As far as possible, I have them not know who wrote it. It's pretty easy to do that in this day of the internet - the parent tells them they found the first chapter of this book when surging the internet, or just leaves it lying on the coffee table. If the kid picks it up and reads it, the parent notes the reaction.

With my current MG, overwhelmingly, kids have asked parents to print off the rest. Only a couple of kids didn't finish it, out of around twenty kids.

Interestingly, boys were the ones who came back to parents after they'd finished reading, asking them to look on the internet for a sequel, but, in the opinion of agents, this book does not have boy appeal because there is a girl MC. For that reason, I'm rewriting it with a boy MC. But, go figure. ;)

In addition, I have adults read for me. Some have read just certain parts, especially the opening chapter. For that, I am trying to work out if a parent thinks it appropriate, has a problem with any language, would pay for it for their child in a bookstore if they read the opening pages. My trusted betas read the whole thing. They are the ones who give me the finer feedback, point out problem areas, etc.

In addition to this, my own kids read for me, or I read aloud to them. They are critical, and not afraid to tell me something sucks. I can also work out from their reactions if something is not worded right, if they aren't following, or are confused. It helps me to go back and refine specific sentences or paragraphs. And, some of my funniest lines have come from my kids. My favorite, 'He walked off, his butt gleaming triumphantly in the sun.' :)
 

rejectME

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This being my first MG novel, I have a question about how complicated one can make chapter structure. What I mean to say is that I want to adequately develop characters, but at the same time, I understand that with some shorter attention spans, kids often want action right away. The ability to do that depends on the story.
I have thought about a first chapter that introduced the characters when they are in one of the last scenes of the story, in a precarious situation and then in chapter two, bringing the reader back to the present where they can get to know the characters they just briefly seen in a challenging spot.
Is this an acceptable device for MG adventure? Thanks!
 

DSA

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I had two kid betas. The first told me she liked it a lot but nothing specific. Her mom said she couldn't put it down, which, of course, was nice to hear but not really helpful. For the second girl I gave it to I asked several very specific questions. For example, I asked her to tell me where she started skimming. I assume most people skim; I know I do. I found her comments very helpful. She told me one character was very annoying and she didn't like him. That was just what I was going for.
 

profen4

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This being my first MG novel, I have a question about how complicated one can make chapter structure. What I mean to say is that I want to adequately develop characters, but at the same time, I understand that with some shorter attention spans, kids often want action right away. The ability to do that depends on the story.
I have thought about a first chapter that introduced the characters when they are in one of the last scenes of the story, in a precarious situation and then in chapter two, bringing the reader back to the present where they can get to know the characters they just briefly seen in a challenging spot.
Is this an acceptable device for MG adventure? Thanks!

Brandon Sanderson does that in this book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0439925509/?tag=absowrit-20 The book opens with nearly the last scene.

But I suspect there are dozens and dozens of examples. All that matters is that it's done well.
shop thoi trang quan ao thoi trang han quoc quan ao so sinh cho be vest cong so vest cong so chup anh cuoi o ha noi
Good luck!
 
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MsJudy

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This being my first MG novel, I have a question about how complicated one can make chapter structure. What I mean to say is that I want to adequately develop characters, but at the same time, I understand that with some shorter attention spans, kids often want action right away. The ability to do that depends on the story.
I have thought about a first chapter that introduced the characters when they are in one of the last scenes of the story, in a precarious situation and then in chapter two, bringing the reader back to the present where they can get to know the characters they just briefly seen in a challenging spot.
Is this an acceptable device for MG adventure? Thanks!

Yes, it's acceptable. I personally don't like it, though. Unless you're really careful, the reader ends up feeling kind of yanked around. Ooh, hey, big exciting adventure! Oh, no, wait, lots of other stuff happens first. And now the suspense is messed up, because I already know where we're going.

My suggestion is to go to the library, check out a whole stack of adventure books--preferably ones published in the last 5-10 years, since styles change--and read the first two chapters. It's entirely possible to write an engaging first chapter that does introduce the characters.

Actually, as I think about it...

One of the reasons beginning writers often struggle with this idea is that their MC just isn't interesting enough. What's interesting is the cool stuff that happens to the MC. So that first chapter--my life before the cool stuff started happening--is very hard to get into.

But every story, even action/adventure, works better when there's a unique, interesting person at the heart of it. And if your MC is unique and interesting, then it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a good first chapter to set up what happens to launch the adventure.

Another thing to think about is starting with a change in the character's life or a goal in progress. Millions of stories start with a character on the way somewhere. We (the readers) know that the real story won't start until we get there, but we know something is going to happen soon. And in the meantime, we get to meet the characters and see how they interact.
 

swanndown

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Hi there. Scrolling through the posts here, I just down-loaded about seventy pounds worth of helpful knowledge into my brain. Thank you all! My agent just sent my first book (upper MG fantasy adventure) out on submission yesterday. I'm trying to settle into that reality, and look forward to making the acquaintance of other MG writers who've pushed their manuscripts out to sea, or those still fitting sails, polishing brass etc. Full disclosure: I am NOT actually in possession of any kind of sailing knowledge....