The Next Circle of Hell

Welcome, Diana! What do you write?

I also heard 50 percent, but I can't remember the specs or the source. It may be an out-of-date figure... Seems like it would be hard to gather reliable figures unless you surveyed agents in a formal way, and not just the "top agents," but anyone who can get a ms. in front of an editor. Maybe AAR has done that?

Fuchsia Groan said:

Welcome, Diana! What do you write?

I also heard 50 percent, but I can't remember the specs or the source. It may be an out-of-date figure... Seems like it would be hard to gather reliable figures unless you surveyed agents in a formal way, and not just the "top agents," but anyone who can get a ms. in front of an editor. Maybe AAR has done that?

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Yeah I knew these stats would be hard to get, but was curious if anyone's come across anything like this. I'll check out AAR!

I write YA thrillers. Working on my second one now to distract myself from the waiting game, and should be finishing the first draft this weekend. YAY! At least there's progress somewhere.

And a belated congrats on your book deal! So exciting!

That's good, Lily!

My dad recently got to have dinner with his agent, who's been a successful agent (mostly non-fic, but some fic) for 30 years. This agent apparently said he is having to work harder than he ever has and that more than anything, the business is sloooower now than it ever has been.

So there's that.

JoyMC said:

My dad recently got to have dinner with his agent, who's been a successful agent (mostly non-fic, but some fic) for 30 years. This agent apparently said he is having to work harder than he ever has and that more than anything, the business is sloooower now than it ever has been.

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That's so interesting — did he speculate about why? Does email, by speeding things up and increasing volume of submissions, ironically end up making the process slower?

I know I feel like I have more work every year because of all the web stuff to keep track of, the ever-appearing new social media platforms, the expectations of instant response — but that's journalism, not publishing.

Sorry about the R, Lily — but glad it's only one!

Thanks, Diana! I finally got enough time off work to read all the way through my contract.

Calla Lily said:

One month on sub agent check-in:

Me: silence from you means a pile of passes, right? (I've told him I don't want detais unless everyone passing says the same thing.)

Him: No! Only one pass ("loved the mc but aren't doing well with UF lately--D3lR3y). All others are still reading.

Could have been worse.

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Only one ain't bad!

JoyMC's comment doesn't surprise me. I heard something similar recently.

At this point, many editors have had my MS over the past 8 or so months. In all that time, I never once got a response in less than a month. I'd always heard that rejects come quickly -- within days, a couple weeks tops -- so I'd get all optimistic that it was a good sign.

Then splat. Reject, reject, reject. Right now a dozen editors have had it for anywhere from 7-ish weeks to 8 months. No negative news. No positive news of 2nd reads. And my agent wants to wait a bit before nudging. No idea why -- she's probably just too busy. But there it is.

Well, it had been three weeks, but 2 Rs today. One didn't like it (didn't get out of the first section, I could tell) and the other said she liked it but she's already got an asteroid book (her's involves time travel, so maybe that's not a killer).

At what point do I need to talk to my agent about what happens next? About what happens if all the majors pass and we have to move to smaller publishers? I don't know how that would work -- would she still represent me if the payoffs we were looking at shrunk significantly?

I tend to look at worst case scenarios and I'm sure I'm jumping the gun, but I'm very pessimistic at this point, and want to prepare myself. Or am I just being a whiny baby?

Sorry about the Rs, whiporee.

I'd just talk to your agent rather than worrying. Sounds like she really loves the book, which is a good sign. Both the agents I've worked with did submit to smaller publishers, even in early rounds, but I guess it depends on the pub, the agent and the genre. Not everybody is expecting a big payoff from an author's first book; sometimes it's more about building a career.

Wishing you better news soon!

Do you ever think it's time to stop hearing about Rs? I'm thinking of writing my agent as telling her not to let me know unless they come in good, or unless we're all done. I'd like to think I'm tough enough to keep reading them, but they depress me for the rest of the day and make it harder to keep on my WIP because I keep thinking about things I should change.

At the same time, you should want to know these things, right?

Any thoughts?

whiporee said:

At the same time, you should want to know these things, right?

Any thoughts?

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Not necessarily. I mean, everyone has to do what works best for them, but I told my agent I didn't want to see the rejections and I only wanted to know why they R'd if there was a pattern and she thought I should revise.

I just know personally that it gets in my head and it's better for me to keep focused on whatever I'm working on.

At one point, she'd been saying the R's were so positive and I asked if she could send me some positive little nugget because I needed some affirmation - I thought she'd say, "Oh, so-and-so said your dialogue is great" or something. Instead, she sent me all ten rejections she had at that time in their entirety because she thought they were so positive I'd be thrilled. OMG they CRUSHED ME. And she was totally flummoxed as to why I wasn't thrilled by them.

So yeah, I'm in the no-rejections-unless-they're-useful camp.

whiporee said:

Do you ever think it's time to stop hearing about Rs? I'm thinking of writing my agent as telling her not to let me know unless they come in good, or unless we're all done. I'd like to think I'm tough enough to keep reading them, but they depress me for the rest of the day and make it harder to keep on my WIP because I keep thinking about things I should change.

At the same time, you should want to know these things, right?

Any thoughts?

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It's interesting that you mention this because I'd been wondering the EXACT same thing last week. I was on such a role with my new WIP, but then I got a R last Friday (the first news I've had in a couple months) and it derailed my progress and confidence over the weekend.

Then again, I find the silence of being on sub more torturous anything. So I simply need to know. It's tough either way, really.

Hi all! I think I'm meant to join you here, but correct me if I'm wrong!
After months of revisions on my proposal (nonfic parenting humor) and a complete website redesign, my agent began submitting my proposal last week. I had a conference call with her and an editor yesterday, and have one more currently interested she's waiting to hear back from. We will know by Tuesday. The editor yesterday would be a perfect fit, but I don't want to get my hopes up! He seemed VERY interested, and now I'm just waiting. I forgot how much I hate waiting! Ah!!

Hi, HH! Great to see you here. And yay for early editor interest! Sounds very promising.

JoyMC said:

Instead, she sent me all ten rejections she had at that time in their entirety because she thought they were so positive I'd be thrilled. OMG they CRUSHED ME. And she was totally flummoxed as to why I wasn't thrilled by them.

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Heh, I've had similar experiences. ("The agent called this a near-miss? It sounded like a polite brush-off to me!") I don't know if this is because agents read between editors' lines differently from how we do, or because agents tend to be optimists (as good salespeople must be) and writers tend to be pessimists.

I've read all mine, but I can't say I've learned much except in the one case where there was a useful feedback pattern. Mainly I've learned about the many polite ways to say no.

Fuchsia Groan said:

("The agent called this a near-miss? It sounded like a polite brush-off to me!")

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This, 100%.

Hi Diana and Holdin!

How's everyone holding up now that the Halloween candy is gone?

I FINALLY finished my next section and sent it to my agent. "It's great!" she just responded. And somehow now I feel like weeping uncontrollably. Putting pressure on myself much?

(((((Hugs to all on sub! I have a feeling I'll be having a total meltdown when I get there.)))))

Quickbread said:

Hi Diana and Holdin!

How's everyone holding up now that the Halloween candy is gone?

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Hiiii! Congrats on your progress and the good feedback from your agent! To clarify, do you send her chapters at a time as you finish them?

As for me, I'm still waiting, waiting, waiting. But I'm feeling positive thanks to my current WIP. My agent LOVED the pitch and is really excited to read the full MS, which is extremely motivating. I know the sooner I get through the revisions, the sooner I'll have another MS on sub. I'm hoping to get it to her in January, but the MS still needs a lot of work. One day at a time!

It's funny... everyone says the best way to stop thinking about being on sub is to keep writing and work on a new project. But no matter how excited I am about my current WIP, I still think about my MS on sub constantly.

diana86 said:

It's funny... everyone says the best way to stop thinking about being on sub is to keep writing and work on a new project. But no matter how excited I am about my current WIP, I still think about my MS on sub constantly.

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I was a wreck the entire time. I had preliminary good news to get my hopes up, but I also knew that ship could abruptly sink at any time, so ... I worked on developing a zen attitude of total resignation to things I couldn't change. I kinda had it working toward the end... kinda. I'm sure I'll be needing that attitude again.

Yay, Quick! I know what you mean about the pressure. But it sounds like your agent is behind you 100 percent. Are you giving yourself a break before you tackle the rest?

diana86 said:

Hiiii! Congrats on your progress and the good feedback from your agent! To clarify, do you send her chapters at a time as you finish them?

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Thanks! I'm not quite sure how it will work for the next book, but this is my first, and when she took me on, the manuscript was in need of a total redo. So we've been working a bit collaboratively on that, with me sending her a few chapters at a time and integrating her feedback in whatever way makes sense to me. I'm almost halfway through now and just finished the hardest section. Hoping to go on sub next summer.

(I was actually "on sub" last summer with the old version of the manuscript, except that was with my ex-agent, who lied and really didn't "sub" it anywhere.)

Quickbread said:

(I was actually "on sub" last summer with the old version of the manuscript, except that was with my ex-agent, who lied and really didn't "sub" it anywhere.)

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OMG. That must have been so confusing/stressful/horrible. I'm glad you found someone else to rep you who's clearly helpful and enthusiastic!

diana86 said:

OMG. That must have been so confusing/stressful/horrible. I'm glad you found someone else to rep you who's clearly helpful and enthusiastic!

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Thank you! Yeah, it was a bit sucky at the time. But she is a major upgrade, and the manuscript-in-progress is like 100x stronger already, so it was really a blessing in disguise. I don't think the earlier version would've found a home.