Rejection question

Glimmer

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After my 40th or 50th query to various agents, I got an inane, half-witted response by an unpaid intern. This is unusual because most of them don't even bother responding. Furthermore, if you read some of their web sites it sounds like they hate writers . . . . so I say . . .

. . . Screw the agents. They are not needed. Just send your query directly to publishers who are producing work in your genre. And if you get an offer, all you need is a entertainment lawyer to look it over.

Best of luck -
Glimmer
 
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BC11

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Pretty terrible idea to send your query to publishers and avoid agents altogether. Most publishers don't accept unsolicited manuscripts anyway.

Agents don't hate writers, either. They love books and the people behind them. The reason many agents are defaulting to no response means "no" is that time is precious, and unfortunately reading queries hovers near the bottom of their priority list. They also don't have time for tirades from the few writers who respond badly to feedback.
 

notveryalice

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After my 40th or 50th query to various agents, I got an inane, half-witted response by an unpaid intern.
Speaking as someone who worked as an unpaid intern for an agency--stop saying "unpaid intern" like it's an insult. I competed for my job, and worked hard at it. The only reason it's unpaid is because businesses can get away with hiring interns for experience rather than pay in the U.S., and that's changing. Furthermore, if you own a small business and have access to people who are willing to do work without pay, it's not unkind to take advantage of that situation.

The agency I worked for hired me because I provided the best reader's reports out of the huge pool of applicants who tried out. They tested me before hiring me so they knew I could make the right decisions about which queries to forward, and that I could summarise a manuscript fairly and thoroughly.

Interns play a huge part in agencies and publishing houses. Any respectable agent will remember being an intern. One of the things that ticks off agents the most is insulting the intelligence/capabilities of their interns.

Edited to add: My agent, as you'll read above, read my manuscript when she was interning with the first agency I queried (Zachary Schuster Harmsworth). ZSH's policy is that ALL agents must like a manuscript before a client is signed; my manuscript was R'ed by committee. Two years later, she became an agent herself, and is currently building a client list before she goes public. I was the first writer she emailed. Do not insult the interns.
 
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Putputt

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Edited to add: My agent, as you'll read above, read my manuscript when she was interning with the first agency I queried (Zachary Schuster Harmsworth). ZSH's policy is that ALL agents must like a manuscript before a client is signed; my manuscript was R'ed by committee. Two years later, she became an agent herself, and is currently building a client list before she goes public. I was the first writer she emailed. Do not insult the interns.

OOhh, very cool! I saw your posts on the Next Circle of Hell thread. I hope your wait will be short and punctuated with awesomeness! :) As for this...

After my 40th or 50th query to various agents, I got an inane, half-witted response by an unpaid intern. This is unusual because most of them don't even bother responding. Furthermore, if you read some of their web sites it sounds like they hate writers . . . . so I say . . .

. . . Screw the agents. They are not needed. Just send your query directly to publishers who are producing work in your genre. And if you get an offer, all you need is a entertainment lawyer to look it over.

Best of luck -
Glimmer

Mm, that's not really a good strategy to take. Most major publishers only accept agented MSs, and if you're fortunate enough to get an offer, whether from a big or small house, how would you know if you're getting the best possible deal? The best possible deal doesn't just mean a big advance. It also means getting the right editor for your work, one who is passionate about it and shares your views about your work.

Also, literary agents do a lot more for writers than you think. This interview with agent Juliet Mushens might shed some light on the worth of agents.

Aaaand I understand that rejection sucks. Having been on the receiving end of plenty of them, I know how that feels. But being dismissive and rude about people in the writing industry is not going to get you anywhere.
 
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JJ Litke

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Rejection sucks. So does insulting the people you're hoping to work with.
 

Glimmer

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HA! Here are the facts:

Literary agents are not your friend. Neither are publishers. They all want to make money. This is reality and there is nothing wrong with it. If you have already published several successful books, then go for it. There will be plenty of agents that would love to work with you because they see you as a cash cow.

If you do not have a track record, then the vast majority of literary agents don't even want to hear from you. Yea - you might get (very very) lucky, and find one that wants to nurture you, but that is an extremely rare occurrence.


The only publishers that do NOT accept manuscripts without representation are the 5 or 8 big ones. Almost all mid-level to small publishers accept un-agented manuscripts. Furthermore, some smaller pubs see agents as an un-helpful barrier between them and the writer. Look at it this way - you have a manuscript - the agent wants you to edit it a certain way to sell it. The publisher wants you to edit it a certain way to to make sure readers want to buy it. I would much rather hear input from the publisher directly.

I have found that many publishers are much more respectful, helpful, and responsive to writers than literary agents. But that is my experience.

You can call me rude, or having a tirade and maybe you are right. If you can get a literary agent to get you a million dollar deal on your first book then good for you.

P.S. I apologize for insulting un-paid interns. You are right - many of them are talented hard-working people and I should not have said what I did.
 

Calla Lily

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Glimmer, there are so many errors of fact in your post #33 that I don't know where to start.

Sour grapes do nothing but infect writing voice and query voice. If you want to go at this without an agent, that's your choice. Many writers do it with success. But please don't toss a pack of lies in here which you've mis-labeled "truth."
 

Glimmer

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I am a Liar Calla Lily? Those are pretty serious words. You don't know anything about me, Calla. If you want to start a flame war with me, I advise you not to do it because you will loose.

But now you have piqued my curiosity. Please point out my "Lies." Why don't you start at Lie #1?
 
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BC11

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Flame wars burn out fast here. And you've completely derailed the thread, which contained useful, and positive, info for those in the query trenches.
 

Glimmer

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Maybe I was being intemperate by saying "screw the literary agents." However, I have said what I believe is the truth. I am trying to be helpful to new writers. Is it possible for a new writer to get a literary agent? Sure. But the odds are stacked very heavily against you. There comes a point where a writer should go directly to the publishers. It is important for new writers to understand how this business works, and not live a dream world. This is not sour grapes.

Remember. The publishing business is changing at light speed. Anyone can publish a book right now. One need not wait for the blessing of a literary agent to get your art out there.

As for you Calla Lily - I thought one of the cornerstones of AW was to respect other writers. I don't remember insulting another writer here. To call me a liar for writing what I believe is the truth is not respect. As a AW moderator you should know this.
 

MacAllister

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Glimmer, no one called you a liar, that I can see. What Calla Lily said was that your post contained errors of fact -- or mistruths: Lies, if you will -- whether accidental or deliberate.
If you do not have a track record, then the vast majority of literary agents don't even want to hear from you.
Is blatant bullshit.

If you've written a kick-ass book, I guarantee I can come up with more agents who DO want to hear from you, than agents who do not.

Furthermore:
Furthermore, some smaller pubs see agents as an un-helpful barrier between them and the writer.

I'd be deeply skeptical of any publisher who didn't want to work with my agent. The reputable publishers and editors I know are actually keenly grateful for the work that agents do as a liason between a writer and the publisher, in terms of keeping things professional and mediating lines of communication.

We are not our words. But on AW, we ARE expected to own our own words

Dial it back.
 
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MacAllister

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Opinions are fine, Glimmer. Just don't try to present your opinions --especially when they're ill-informed -- as if they're unassailable facts.
 

Winfred

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The first time round it took me 47 queries. Second time round...hmm, I didn't really count...I would guess around 40 as well?

Miss Snark said to query 100 before questioning your MS, but I suggest getting your query letter looked at over on QLH to make sure it's working. As for where to find agents...I found most of the US ones on Query Tracker and UK ones no Wiki.

Hi! I sent email queries to 41 agents since Feb 23, 2015 and ten rejections, some from just my query and even those who wanted an excerpt with the query... I think about 3 of the 10 were in that category.

I have a novella and also maybe not equivalent advice as I heard publishers don't like novellas, right?

Is having a film company requesting my story not really a big deal to literary agents?

Yet with my query I mention a film company, a big one, asked for my stuff and I signed a "Release" with them five weeks ago. I quoted above... what is "QLH" for queries? Also, I'm concerned about my novella not being up to par and need someone to crit it and can't afford hiring an editor. Any suggestions on how to find readers. I watch AW Beta Readers area without much luck getting anyone to read.

Thanks for this thread and hope I at the same time helped you!

Kindest Regards,
Winfred
 
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cornflake

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Hi! I sent email queries to 41 agents since Feb 23, 2015 and ten rejections, some from just my query and even those who wanted an excerpt with the query... I think about 3 of the 10 were in that category.

I have a novella and also maybe not equivalent advice as I heard publishers don't like novellas, right?

Is having a film company requesting my story not really a big deal to literary agents?

Yet with my query I mention a film company, a big one, asked for my stuff and I signed a "Release" with them five weeks ago. I quoted above... what is "QLH" for queries? Also, I'm concerned about my novella not being up to par and need someone to crit it and can't afford hiring an editor. Any suggestions on how to find readers. I watch AW Beta Readers area without much luck getting anyone to read.

Thanks for this thread and hope I at the same time helped you!

Kindest Regards,
Winfred

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

You signed a release? Do you mean you signed an option? I hope you mean you signed an option deal.

What did they request your work FOR?

It depends entirely on what company and what kind of option deal, as to whether it's a big deal or not.

As to the rest of your post, novellas are a harder sell, simply because they're a harder sell in a general sense.

You can put excerpts up in the appropriate genre section of SYW (Share Your Work), which will get you critiques, and more views and increase the likelihood of potential beta readers.

The QLH section is Query Letter Hell, where you can basically workshop your query letter - it's a full-service area offering lots of advice for constructing a query and you're welcome to start a thread with your own query in it, to ask for advice and help on it.

Query Letter Hell is a subsection of SYW - password for everything except the erotica thread is: vista. For the password to the erotica thread, msg a mod.
 

Putputt

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Hi! I sent email queries to 41 agents since Feb 23, 2015 and ten rejections, some from just my query and even those who wanted an excerpt with the query... I think about 3 of the 10 were in that category.

I have a novella and also maybe not equivalent advice as I heard publishers don't like novellas, right?

I am under the impression that novellas have a smaller market than longer works, so I don't know what the success rate of a query for a novella is, sorry!

Is having a film company requesting my story not really a big deal to literary agents?

Dunno.

I quoted above... what is "QLH" for queries?

QLH is Query Letter Hell. The password is "vista".

Also, I'm concerned about my novella not being up to par and need someone to crit it and can't afford hiring an editor. Any suggestions on how to find readers. I watch AW Beta Readers area without much luck getting anyone to read.

The best way to find good betas for your book is to participate in the forum. How I got my betas was by hanging around on QLH. Gradually, I gravitated towards those whose critiques I agreed with, and developed friendships with them. You're less likely to be burned or ignored if you develop some sort of relationship with people before asking them to beta your work. :) Plus, that way you'll know that you guys operate on similar wavelengths, so you'll know whether their unput is to be trusted or not.
 

MartinaMay

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My stats are a little more unusual because I signed with my agent for my first of three novels (Jan., 2015). Although, she's glad to take all of them.

Total queries sent: 173

#1 historical fantasy: 58 queries; 5 fulls, 10 partials; 2 offers of rep; started querying Jan., 2014
#2 young adult contemporary: 60 queries, 7 fulls, 9 partials; started querying August, 2014
#3 young adult sci-fi thriller: 55 queries, 4 fulls, 2 partials; started querying Nov., 2014
 

Persistence1010

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Whenever I get discouraged, I remind myself that Laurell K Hamilton said she racked up 200 rejections before she sold her Anita Blake series. I love this thread since it reminds me that so many writers are going through the same thing. You just gotta send out again (maybe fix your query), and work on the next book!
 

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My advice is not always well-received, but my strategy with queries is to send them out until I get ten form rejections. I then lightly rewrite the query and send it out again. If I get another ten, I radically revise the query and send it out. What I'm looking for is nibbles. Signs that something is right and hints of what's not right. If I get a nibble and a clue as to where the query going wrong, I'll revise again based on that hint, and send the revised query out again. Of course this process sometimes results in a query that only marginally represents your manuscript. But so what? Now you revise the manuscript to match your query, and your story is probably better for it.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26875882-nakamura-reality

nakextraextrasmall.jpg
 
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