The most frustrating rejections

EmeraldLily23 · Jan 15, 2015

This is only my second time starting a thread, so eek... here goes.

I've cleared more than 200 agent queries, going on two years. My very first query received a full request so I thought I would be getting good news right away. Wrong. I sent many more queries. And I got several requests for fulls and partials during that year, from some of my dream agents. I realized I had a problem with pacing (and had unfortunately queried too soon- a rookie mistake) when a lot of the rejections were based on the slow pacing. I took another few months off, got a very blunt beta reader, and completed a major revision, cutting a good 20,000 words. I queried on. I've even had three agents who previously rejected my longer/slower novel ask for an updated full, but they ultimately passed once more. The most common reason I'm now getting for rejections on the material itself (and not the query) is "I just didn't fall in love the way that I'd hoped." I'm getting positive feedback on my writing, on the premise. But something is just not clicking.

I guess I'm not sure what to do. I feel like my query letter is strong, as I'm getting requests, but I haven't posted it here yet- I know I need more posts to do so. I don't know what to do when someone just doesn't fall in love. If it's just a matter of taste, I can't really help that. My best writing buddy HATES my favorite book ever. It doesn't mean the book is bad. Just that we don't like the same things. So, what's a rejected writer to do? I'm not completely closed off to the idea of self-publishing (down the road) but I'm really not interested right now. I'm not ready to give up on the dream of being traditionally published.

I know I read someone on here had success after over 200 queries. Someone else have as big of a list as I do? I don't know whether it's commendable that I do, or just pathetic. I feel slightly pathetic.

I've been racking up my list of small presses to query once I have hit the bottom of the barrel with agents, but I'm not sure how long I should wait. I first said 200, then changed that to 250 because I panicked. I know I shouldn't query presses until the agents all pass, but how do I know when the stopping point for querying agents is? I can't very well go back to agents once I've started querying publishers...right?

Ugh. Any advice or stern words are appreciated. Okay, not too stern, though. I just need something. Like hope.

Sage · Jan 15, 2015

It might be time to move on to the next book and hope that when you show this one to your future agent, she'll help you figure out what's needed to make it marketable. You don't have to give up on your dream of being trade published. You just might be at a point where querying this one is not in your best interest. Do you really want to scrape the "bottom of the barrel" of agents?

Not falling in love with the novel is the most basic reason for passing. It doesn't tell you if there's some reason behind it, something specific that people aren't connecting to, or if it's just not THE novel for these agents. I know because we hear about people getting agents all the time or about agents tweeting about picking up a new client that it seems like if your writing is good, it should be loved, but if an agent is like me, there are so few novels that I really truly love. And the truth is, you want an agent who fell in love with it.

Some hope for you. After some time, new agents in good, established agencies might be announced. These are more likely to be looking to sign new clients, while their established agency is a good sign for their ability to represent your work. This would be a better option than "scraping the bottom of the barrel." Also, if your next book gets represented, the agent will be interested in your whole career, including past books. She might not like it or might think it's not marketable, but she'll give you details on what exactly is her problem with it. And she might love it or know exactly how to fix it now that you're her client, so she'll help you sell it.

And you can query agents after you've queried small presses, but you just have to be aware that they can't sell to those presses. Now, with small presses, that's not as big a deal. They'll probably focus on the bigger houses anyway.

It is up to you whether that's the route you want to take or if you want to wait to see what happens with your next book.

Drachen Jager · Jan 15, 2015

SYW is a good place to get your work ~~shredded~~ ~~eviscerated~~ critiqued.

You can only post to the 200 words or less threads now, but if you critique other people for a while before diving in full-bore (which is a good idea anyhow) you'll hit the magic 50 post mark in a few days. Many people actually find that critiquing other writers work is actually more important to their own development than having their work critiqued, I know it's worked that way for me.

Osulagh · Jan 15, 2015

I agree with Sage and Drachen.

Now, I haven't read your novel so I wouldn't know exactly, but if a lot of agents--who work with your genre and were interested in your premise--read your story and said they weren't in love with it, it might just be boring. As writers, we love everything we write, but we're also blind to what the reader perceives. It can be very hard to understand and learn to write a story in a way that it connects with readers--something even the most experienced writers fail at occasionally.

I suggest, before you burn the book, to throw it into the SYW section and see what can be done about it. Perhaps get some very critical beta-readers to look through it.

From there, decide if you should revise it or work on another story--after learning from the last--and query the new one. You can leave the current one on the back burner until you're done with the new one. If you query the new one, revise the old one and prepare that.

I do also suggest: If you're serious about trade publishing, think about having multiple books ready for querying. If an agent says, "I didn't fall in love with the story" then send them a different one (in the same genre) to see if they fall in love with that one.

Jamesaritchie · Jan 16, 2015

Write a new novel. Then write a new one after that. And then write a new one after that. On and on.

Another classic rookie mistake, maybe the most common of all, is investing far too much time and energy into one novel. I see this happen over and over and over.

Write new novels. This is how you learn to writer better novels. Keep the old one in circulation, as long as there's anyone or any place to send it to, but stop fiddling with it, and get on about the business of writing a new novel, and then a new one after that, rinse and repeat until you write one that sells.

This novel isn't working, and it sounds like you've already invested far more time and energy into it that you should have, and without already having a new novel making the rounds.

EmeraldLily23 · Jan 16, 2015

Thanks all. I got some great advice. I do have another novel in edits right now. I should be ready to query that in a couple months. And i feel it is strong, or at least I'm really excited about it. And I'm about halfway through a third, so I do have other options for future. I think I'll finish out my current short list and then set this aside. I guess I didn't even think about possibly pitching it to my future agent (if I get one!) but that idea brings some comfort. I appreciate all your thoughts!

Whimsigirl · Jan 16, 2015

Sometimes the first novel you query just isn't meant to be. Like what others have said, I'd suggest focusing on your new novel for a while and getting it ready for Query Round #2. It'll give you hope and be a good distraction while you're waiting on your current queries.

I have to admit though, you've got lots of guts sending out 200+ queries. The first time I queried, I only sent one then backed off (I was only 16, but still)...so you have perseverance on your side. Good luck!

Phaeal · Jan 16, 2015

I found my agent after 281 queries, so yeah, pig-headed persistence and all that.

You're on the right track with new material coming along. Either go on querying number one or retire it for a while, whichever interferes less or not at all with current production.

Bryan Methods · Jan 22, 2015

If you feel you're getting close but it's not quite working, take a while to rework what you're sending. Get those sample chapters better, make sure the synopsis is as engaging as it can be. It took me a long while to get an agent, but every so often changing things up so that I was more confident again about what I was sending out was very important for morale!

Chasing the Horizon · Jan 22, 2015

Where are you people finding 200+ agents to query? I've only found 54 who look like good possibilities.

Anyway, I would say it's time to pack in that first novel and focus your energies on preparing your next book to query.

Sibyl696 · Jan 24, 2015

I can relate to your post. I've queried about 14 agents and publishers now, got about 4 partials, 1 full and everything has come back as "love your concept, love your writing, just didn't fall in love with it as I hoped." I received feedback that they are sure I will find a home for my book. It is just a matter of finding the right agent for it.

While 200 agents is a lot, I wouldn't give up. But I would be hesitant to try the "bottom of the barrel" . I want an a agent that will love my work, be hardworking and get the best contract out there.

For me, I'm trying to decide what manuscript is next to write. I have a few ideas, but I need to really fall in love with my next idea before I write it. I'm also in the process of editing the sequel to the book I'm subbing. I'll keep querying for now, but when I have exhausted the list of agents and publishers on my list, I may consider self publishing. Or I may shelve it and when I do land that agent - show it to them. There's always the chance I'll "make it" for another book, build a following, then release these. For now, I'll just keep writing and not give up!

blacbird · Jan 25, 2015

Without question, the ones that say something like, "we almost accepted this." Any editor or agent who would say this is a direct descendant of the Marquise de Sade.

Gimme a goddamn form rejection any day, instead of that.

caw

Good Crazy · Jan 27, 2015

EmeraldLily, I feel your pain. I've had so many of those "didn't fall in love" rejections, and you know what? I can't fault anyone for that. As readers (agents or not), we either fall in love or we don't. Like you said, two people who have a lot in common can like entirely different types of books, all high quality. In some ways, it *is* like falling in love with a person -- subjective, personal, and not always easy to explain. If I were an agent, I'd only want to invest my limited time in projects that I really loved. And as writers, I'm pretty sure it's best to have agents who really love our work.

I am no sage so I don't have any advice to offer, but as a data point, I can testify to the potential benefits of personal interactions and contacts made at conferences or other places writers and agents gather. There's nothing like making a human connection. I certainly wish you all the best and hope your book finds its "lover" very soon!

popgun62 · Jan 27, 2015

I queried around 100 agents for each of my first three books and ended up getting them published with small presses. It wasn't until my fourth book that I landed my dream agent with only one query. I self-published one book. It didn't sell. My other books do. So I don't really know what the lesson is there, other than don't give up.

If you run out of agents to query, try the smal press route. Just make sure they're legit, not vanity presses. They should pay at least some kind of advance, even if it's small. If you believe in your manuscript, someone else will, too.

Bryan Methods · Jan 28, 2015

blacbird said:
Without question, the ones that say something like, "we almost accepted this." Any editor or agent who would say this is a direct descendant of the Marquise de Sade.

Gimme a goddamn form rejection any day, instead of that.

caw

Personally, I much prefer those to form rejections. If one person ALMOST accepted, someone else most likely will like it that little bit more and take it.

My least favourite rejection was when a full had been requested and then I eventually got a form rejection that had clearly been BCCed to several writers. I can take that for a query, but for a full it stung.

Jamesaritchie · Jan 28, 2015

Chasing the Horizon said:
Where are you people finding 200+ agents to query? I've only found 54 who look like good possibilities.

Anyway, I would say it's time to pack in that first novel and focus your energies on preparing your next book to query.

I think querying so many agents is a mistake, unless there's no rhyme or reason to your selection process. There aren't that many agents worth having in any genre. I'm not sure about category romance, but no other genre out there has more than two dozen agents that I would even think about signing with.

The one thing that's far worse than having no agent is having a poor agent. Writers seem to think that all agents are equal, and that publishers treat them all the same. It just isn't true. I read a lot of publisher slush, but most of it isn't from writers, it's from agents the publisher doesn't know, or doesn't trust to deliver good material. You do not want this kind of agent. Honestly and effort aren't the issues. Being able to tell a really good manuscript from a mediocre one is.

blacbird · Jan 28, 2015

Bryan Methods said:
PIf one person ALMOST accepted, someone else most likely will like it that little bit more and take it.

Don't bet your house and firstborn on this premise.

caw

EmeraldLily23 · Jan 29, 2015

Chasing the Horizon said:
Where are you people finding 200+ agents to query? I've only found 54 who look like good possibilities.

Anyway, I would say it's time to pack in that first novel and focus your energies on preparing your next book to query.

Most of them are from querytracker but a lot I've found searching the bewares/recs board here. And I follow writers digest/the writer on Facebook and occasionally I get leads there. It seems like new agents are always cropping up.

EmeraldLily23 · Jan 29, 2015

Phaeal said:
I found my agent after 281 queries, so yeah, pig-headed persistence and all that.

You're on the right track with new material coming along. Either go on querying number one or retire it for a while, whichever interferes less or not at all with current production.

Wow, good for you!

EmeraldLily23 · Jan 29, 2015

I decided to lay off on agent queries for awhile and focus on something else BUT I just heard back from two I was closing out and I got full requests from both. I won't hold my breath, but I won't be officially "out" until I hear what they have to say.

And I should note, I have made careful consideration of each agent I've queried. Agents I've queried come from respected agencies, and have sales to their names. I would never query someone just to add to my numbers. It's tough enough as it is!

Thanks for commiserating, everyone. I'll update when/if I ever get news. Good news, I hope!

LJD · Jan 29, 2015

Bryan Methods said:
Personally, I much prefer those to form rejections. If one person ALMOST accepted, someone else most likely will like it that little bit more and take it.

Or a whole bunch of people will give you nice personalized rejections, telling you that they're sure you'll find a home for it elsewhere...which just makes you scream in frustration because that's what everyone says, and you cannot sell the damn book.

But I guess I still prefer those rejections, because they tell me my writing isn't complete crap...

blacbird · Jan 29, 2015

The single most frustrating and disheartening rejection I ever received wasn't even a rejection; it was a prejection. Happened like this:

At a big writer's conference some years ago, I submitted a piece for critique in a workshop. It seemed to be well-received. Near the end of the conference, as I was walking across the university campus where it was held, I was hailed by an agent I had seen in a panel discussion, a well-known and well-respected agent. Somehow, she had associated me with the piece I submitted, and when she saw me she took the time to introduce herself, and tell me that she really liked the piece I submitted. After which she also told me she didn't know any way she could sell it.

I had never submitted anything to her, though I might have considered doing that. I knew of her and her high reputation. And I know also she intended well. She had no reason to introduce herself to me otherwise.

But that was a real crusher. After getting similar comments on numerous other submissions, of numerous other things, both queries and shorts, I could only come to the conclusion that I can't write "marketable" stuff.

And should maybe take up macramé, or yoga, or coin-collecting, or burglary, something useful.

caw

Good Crazy · Jan 30, 2015

EmeraldLily23 said:
I decided to lay off on agent queries for awhile and focus on something else BUT I just heard back from two I was closing out and I got full requests from both. I won't hold my breath, but I won't be officially "out" until I hear what they have to say.

Congrats on the requests, EmeraldLily!!!

That's fantastic news. Best of luck, all fingers crossed for you that one of these is "the one!"

Cochinay · Feb 1, 2015

blacbird said:
Somehow, she had associated me with the piece I submitted, and when she saw me she took the time to introduce herself, and tell me that she really liked the piece I submitted. After which she also told me she didn't know any way she could sell it.

That's what happened to me. Right off the bat. But not quite as positive. Mine was more like, "I like the writing and the basic story, but I can't sell it."

After that, form rejections. I've heard from 23 agents. One thing I find extremely encouraging, however, is that some agents request that an online form be used for the query, and I've had not a single rejection from any of them. In fact, I've heard absolutely nothing from any of those agents. I can only imagine how they're still studying and considering my work. OK, so I'm not so funny.

I've had people suggest self-publishing, hiring an editor, etc.

I'm inclined to believe what someone wise here said more eloquently. Hiring an editor might be a form of self-deception. Either I have the stuff, or I don't. As for self-publishing, that might help tell stories to the grandchildren one day, but won't make me feel very accomplished. I can't fool a single agent?

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to keep putting my novel aside, then picking it back up and asking whether it's really as interesting and valuable to the literary field as I think it is. I'll edit as I see best, or as needed. I'll try to make it more exciting (it's a mystery, sort of). And I'll keep submitting and resubmitting until every agent and his children have rejected it, and I'm too feeble to craft any more of these enticing query letters.

Moonchild · Feb 2, 2015

Cochinay said:
Mine was more like, "I like the writing and the basic story, but I can't sell it."

Ooh-ooh! I got one of those! It was extremely gracious and stated what a hard decision it was for them to pass, that they liked the voice, the premise, the writing, but in the end, they were afraid they wouldn't know how to sell it. My heart broke a little that day, though I do get where they're coming from (my MS is a little niche-y--definitely not for everybody).

On the flipside, I got another R that pretty much said how awesome the premise was and then proceeded to list the ways in which I'd managed to murder said awesomeness.

What I find frustrating here is not so much the individual rejections themselves, but the disparity of feedback/comments. If both had listed the same problems, things would be a lot clearer for me.

Still, way less frustrating than any variation on the "didn't connect enough" or "didn't love it enough" reasons to pass.

The most frustrating rejections

EmeraldLily23

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

Drachen Jager

Professor of applied misanthropy

Osulagh

Independent fluffy puppy.

Jamesaritchie

EmeraldLily23

Whimsigirl

wishin' and hopin'

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

Bryan Methods

Chasing the Horizon

Blowing in the Wind

Sibyl696

blacbird

Good Crazy

Frolicking on the edge of sanity

popgun62

Keeper of the pace.

Bryan Methods

Jamesaritchie

blacbird

EmeraldLily23

EmeraldLily23

EmeraldLily23

LJD

blacbird

Good Crazy

Frolicking on the edge of sanity

Cochinay

Moonchild

I write fluff and that's OK.