Problem with Neighbors' dogs

heza · Feb 14, 2014

So my husband and I recently moved into a new house. We were very excited. We bought this house specifically for the back yard. It's nice and big--plenty of room for our girl, Maddie, to run around.

This is Maddie:

I think she's a border collie mix.

We were also really looking forward to the backyard because in the mornings, we enjoy sitting on the porch with Maddie while we drink coffee. And that's always seemed really important to her--that someone come out there with her.

When we moved in, the neighbors we share a back fence with had two dogs: a blue heeler mix and a doberman mix. We're primarily having three problems I'm not sure how to address:

1) The doberman screams all day and night. The first time he did it, I ran up stairs and checked out the window that overlooks their yard to make sure he wasn't hurt. But he's just been jumping up on the back door and crying in a very distressed way because he wants attention. There are no trees in the neighborhood (because it's new) and the sound echoes. I have to turn the tv up during the day to drown it out, but I can't wear ear plugs at night because I won't hear the alarm in the morning.

2) The doberman keep body checking the fence between our yards. The fence is the standard builder fence, so not reinforced at all, and I'm not sure how to do so affordably. But as soon as those boards weather at all, I'm certain he's going to pop one or two off and have access to our yard and dog. He's also digging under the fence.

3) After a couple of weeks, the blue heeler suddenly disappeared and a boxer mix appeared the same day. That seemed really odd. The boxer is aggressive. I'm not sure it's jumping on the fence, but when I go to the fence to bring Maddie away, he growls at me... and at her, obviously. Since the boxer has been there, there's been a lot of fighting through the fence. I guess the boxer starts it (because this wasn't a problem with the blue heeler), and Maddie starts barking... then the doberman starts barking, and it's just this really loud, really scary feedback loop. We can't get them to stop, and we end up having to drag Maddie away.

So I feel like this backyard we based our entire buying decision on is now useless to us. Our mornings are no longer companionable and serene--it's all stress and scolding. Our enjoyment of the place is ruined by the constant noise. The fence is getting torn up little by little. And I'm afraid that if there's a breach, those two dogs will gang up on Maddie and kill her or seriously wound her.

She's always inside while we're away, but she likes extended periods outdoors. I've been walking her, but we've had to limit her time outside now to supervised periods. it's also embarrassing because the noise echoes and, I'm sure, annoys the rest of the neighborhood. I'm really angry about it and don't know what to do. My husband says we can't confront the neighbors. And while we've been trying to train Maddie to come when called, it's absolutely impossible to get her attention when one of these fights starts.

Any suggestions? Currently, I'm trying to set aside money for a personal trainer who's willing to come to the house to observe the situation.

Inky · Feb 14, 2014

Have you talked to the neighbors? Whenever I've had issues with neighbors and their pets, they AREN'T the type to talk to.

Destruction to the fence, therefore, destruction to your safety/peace of mind seems like it would be an issue for the neighborhood association--do you have one?

Usually, an agent will take you to view a house when they know it's prime time that dogs and whatnot are in the house. If they take you to look at a house in the evening, return to the neighborhood in the morning, park, and sit there awhile listening and watching. Vice versa, if they insist mornings are the best time to the house of interest.

After being stationed all over the world, serving our country, the one thing we look forward to--in this weird lifestyle called 'Retirement'--is buying a house, but we have a profound fear of lousy neighbors. When you rent, you can see your lease through and move. But when you finally get to buy your dream home...

I'm terribly sorry you're having to suffer through this, especially with a Border Collie. They love the outdoors, do NOT like being cooped up because they're herders. Is there a dog park near by that you can take her to daily so she can flex those legs? Yeah, you shouldn't have to...you should be able to enjoy your backyard.

The other option, if you don't want to go to the neighbor, is to call one of those animal groups that looks into animals not being taken care of. A dog outside all day and all night, screaming because it's being so ignored...well...not always a case of abuse, could just be they really shouldn't have bothered with a dog.

Also, they might be taking care of the dogs for people who are on vacation or who have deployed, and they're not really dog people. I've even read of a case where the son was killed in Afghanistan, and the family members took turns taking care of the pets left behind until they found homes for 'em.
I'd love the pets because they were a part of the lost son, but that's not everyone's ability--some are allergic, some just don't have that special something when it comes to pets.

Lastly, when living in Germany, there was a black lab across the street. Every time I'd leave the house for a walk, he'd bark at me from his gate. I gained courage and talked to the owner, asking if he'd like me to walk his dog, since he was gone all day at work. Germans are crazy about their pets. He loved this idea, and the dog was much better behaved--eventually just started staying with me all day, since I was home writing. Then the kids would come home from school--and you know how kids and dogs instantly bond!

I'd talk to the neighbors. Find out what's going on. See if there isn't some accord you can reach. Hopefully, they're not wretched people.

soapdish · Feb 14, 2014

We went through the same thing.

EXACTLY almost. I had a whole side of my house with raised flower beds etc. (the only sunny side of the house) that I couldn't access for three years because of it. And the garden was one of the main reasons we chose the house.

And it's hard because you *can* confront the neighbors, but often times it won't change anything. Though, it might be worth a shot...

Do you know if the people next to you are renters or owners? If they're renters, you may be able to send a complaint to the landlord or property manager. Sometimes they are unaware that their tenants have dogs and it may violate some agreement.

Does your neighborhood have any laws around how many dogs can be owned? Per...square footage or something? I don't know. Ours does, but I think it's three dogs. And then technically you have to have a kennel license or something. No one observes this, but the law is there if we need to fall back on it for a situation like this.

What about a noise ordinance? :Shrug:

Can you find something that you can report?

I had to call the police on the neighbor's dog because it got out and was aggressively barking down a woman and her baby in the street. The cop was very nice to me and said that there was nothing he could do but warn the owners at this time, but that that was a step in the right direction. Because if their dog was ever loose again outside their gates, their was a hefty fine. We hoped that the fine would make the owners tighten up their management of the dog. And it did...sorta.

soapdish · Feb 14, 2014

Inky said:
I'd talk to the neighbors. Find out what's going on. See if there isn't some accord you can reach. Hopefully, they're not wretched people.

Right. That'd be my first suggestion. Then all the other stuff. If that fails.

veinglory · Feb 14, 2014

One thing you might consider is a buffer zone, that is have maybe a foot of garden with fast growing but low shrubs like hebes or dwarf conifers or even a flax or fern, then a low fence (just enough to keep your dog inside the grassed zone).

If the dogs can't both just right up to the fence the often cool down a lot. The buffer loses very little space and keeps an open view but can really cut down direct interactions and territorial behavior.

cornflake · Feb 14, 2014

heza said:
So my husband and I recently moved into a new house. We were very excited. We bought this house specifically for the back yard. It's nice and big--plenty of room for our girl, Maddie, to run around.

This is Maddie:

I think she's a border collie mix.

We were also really looking forward to the backyard because in the mornings, we enjoy sitting on the porch with Maddie while we drink coffee. And that's always seemed really important to her--that someone come out there with her.

When we moved in, the neighbors we share a back fence with had two dogs: a blue heeler mix and a doberman mix. We're primarily having three problems I'm not sure how to address:

1) The doberman screams all day and night. The first time he did it, I ran up stairs and checked out the window that overlooks their yard to make sure he wasn't hurt. But he's just been jumping up on the back door and crying in a very distressed way because he wants attention. There are no trees in the neighborhood (because it's new) and the sound echoes. I have to turn the tv up during the day to drown it out, but I can't wear ear plugs at night because I won't hear the alarm in the morning.

2) The doberman keep body checking the fence between our yards. The fence is the standard builder fence, so not reinforced at all, and I'm not sure how to do so affordably. But as soon as those boards weather at all, I'm certain he's going to pop one or two off and have access to our yard and dog. He's also digging under the fence.

3) After a couple of weeks, the blue heeler suddenly disappeared and a boxer mix appeared the same day. That seemed really odd. The boxer is aggressive. I'm not sure it's jumping on the fence, but when I go to the fence to bring Maddie away, he growls at me... and at her, obviously. Since the boxer has been there, there's been a lot of fighting through the fence. I guess the boxer starts it (because this wasn't a problem with the blue heeler), and Maddie starts barking... then the doberman starts barking, and it's just this really loud, really scary feedback loop. We can't get them to stop, and we end up having to drag Maddie away.

So I feel like this backyard we based our entire buying decision on is now useless to us. Our mornings are no longer companionable and serene--it's all stress and scolding. Our enjoyment of the place is ruined by the constant noise. The fence is getting torn up little by little. And I'm afraid that if there's a breach, those two dogs will gang up on Maddie and kill her or seriously wound her.

She's always inside while we're away, but she likes extended periods outdoors. I've been walking her, but we've had to limit her time outside now to supervised periods. it's also embarrassing because the noise echoes and, I'm sure, annoys the rest of the neighborhood. I'm really angry about it and don't know what to do. My husband says we can't confront the neighbors. And while we've been trying to train Maddie to come when called, it's absolutely impossible to get her attention when one of these fights starts.

Any suggestions? Currently, I'm trying to set aside money for a personal trainer who's willing to come to the house to observe the situation.

I'd definitely at least try to talk to the neighbours first. It doesn't sound like they'd be help but you never know until you try and you might feel dippy if you did six other things and then they were like 'omg, he's in the yard doing that? Why didn't you say something?'

If you approach it like both your dogs are having problems getting along through the fence and you're worried about the fence being broken and etc., maybe they'll be more amenable.

Otherwise, first question is is Maddie fixed?

Assuming she is, I think I might try spraying the fence where their dogs come butting it and barking at her with something offputting to dogs - I dunno if the sour apple-type stuff will keep them from physically butting into it but can't hurt to try a good spray of it when they get close and spraying down the boards.

As to the poor pup who stands in the yard and yells that's concerning. Is he just left out there all the time? Is he taken care of properly?

Do you guys have ASPCA cops where you live? I thought everyplace did but I've found out they don't. If you do and he's not being cared for properly, call them?

soapdish · Feb 14, 2014

veinglory said:
One thing you might consider is a buffer zone, that is have maybe a foot of garden with fast growing but low shrubs like hebes or dwarf conifers or even a flax or fern, then a low fence (just enough to keep your dog inside the grassed zone).

If the dogs can't both just right up to the fence the often cool down a lot. The buffer loses very little space and keeps an open view but can really cut down direct interactions and territorial behavior.

Agreed. Sometimes if the dogs can't *see* each other (or you), they'll kinda back off. We did this with one neighbor (different than the one I mentioned before. Yeah, we've had a few of these situations on multiple sides of our house. :rolleyes

).

The other thing we did was made a buffer with a roll of chicken wire--created a mini fence basically that kept our dog on one side and far enough (about 6 ft) from the main fence that the dogs were less likely to...you know, get into it. It was ugly. But it did help a little.

cornflake · Feb 14, 2014

Something else occurred - have the dogs been introduced?

If they haven't, and you go over with that - that the dogs aren't getting along through the fence and you thought maybe if they were introduced - it might help?

If you're all there and they're leashed and can stand and sniff and see it's ok, might cut down on the 'there's a dog over there!!!' frantic fence bashing and worry about what'd happen if there was a breach.

Furious Deep · Feb 14, 2014

I had a similar problem with our neighbor. She has three absurdly loud little dogs that she would let out for hours at a time. Our yards are small and the subdivision forbids any outdoor pets, but they would bark right outside our bedroom window for two hours every morning and two hours every night. I got to the point that I was going to call the cops. I decided to talk to her first though.

She was pretty amicable about it, and has made a genuine effort to not leave them out for as long as she used to. She also altered the times she let them out slightly so that we could get a little more uninterrupted sleep per my suggestion.

You have to live with these neighbors, so it will be up to you to decide what course of action you can live with. I would talk to them first with a solution of some sort in mind that you can suggest.

You can also go the passive aggressive route (which I did too) and just stick an ultra sonic bark deterrent device in the yard. Such as this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000N2N9DU/?tag=absowrit-20

Works pretty well.

If that doesn't help I would file a complaint with the Police. Disturbing the peace is disturbing the peace.

heza · Feb 14, 2014

Thanks for the suggestions guys. They're all good ideas.

Most everyone has suggested talking to the neighbors. I'm sort of with Inky and soapdish on this in that I'm worried they're not very good people and I'm not sure it'd do any good.

From what I can tell, the dogs are always outside--all day, all night, in good weather, in bad. Again, from what I can tell--but I jump to conclusions sometimes. They might just go to bed really, really late and get up at 4:00 a.m. or something. But I'm struck by how the front of their house is really detailed. They have a three-car garage, a Mercedes and a huge, expensive extended cab pickup... what I mean is, they seem to spend a lot of money on themselves... but outside, there's nothing for the dogs. Two small bowls and a small dog house for two large dogs. They're both short hair and were left out during our three big ice storms with very little in the way of shelter. They're never out with the dogs. I've never seen or heard them playing with them...

And I'm very suspicious that the blue heeler disappeared the morning after one of the freezing nights.

So... yeah, I will work up the nerve to go talk to them, but I'm not holding out hope they'll care. Best I expect is for them to curse me out and slam the door in my face.

Inky said:
Also, they might be taking care of the dogs for people who are on vacation or who have deployed, and they're not really dog people. I've even read of a case where the son was killed in Afghanistan, and the family members took turns taking care of the pets left behind until they found homes for 'em.
I'd love the pets because they were a part of the lost son, but that's not everyone's ability--some are allergic, some just don't have that special something when it comes to pets.

I'm really hoping this is true and that the dogs will go back to attentive owners soon (or even just someday).

soapdish said:
Does your neighborhood have any laws around how many dogs can be owned? Per...square footage or something? I don't know. Ours does, but I think it's three dogs. And then technically you have to have a kennel license or something. No one observes this, but the law is there if we need to fall back on it for a situation like this.

I'm not sure what I can report... the noise would definitely be a thing... except that we're way out in the extended suburbs, in a different county, beholden to a very small town, technically. I'm not sure there are ordinances. There weren't any for fire works. I think we're out of SPCA jurisdiction, too.

If there's dog limit, I doubt they've reached it. They've got two dogs in a huge yard. Which is aggravating in itself--all this expanse of yard between them, and the dogs have to be on the one fence... *sigh*

And I'm timid to report them. I wouldn't mind mind at all if the owners would just get fined, but I hate to do something that ends the dogs up in a shelter, you know?

I don't think they're renters. This is a new development, so I imagine most of the people are building there to move in.

veinglory said:
One thing you might consider is a buffer zone, that is have maybe a foot of garden with fast growing but low shrubs like hebes or dwarf conifers or even a flax or fern, then a low fence (just enough to keep your dog inside the grassed zone).

It does occur to me that Maddie probably contributes to this a lot. When I lived in a rental, the dog in the house that backed to mine would come stand in the corner and growl and she'd get super upset and try to tear up the fence. [Basically, she doesn't start stuff because she's very gregarious... but if the other dog growls or barks first, she gets super offended and then it's on!] But I bought plywood and covered all the gaps in the fence, and that stopped the barking.

So, yes, I think a border would help a lot... the trouble with that is that it's a really long fence. Doing a border that would actually make a difference would be really expensive and take a long time to do. Even then, I'm not sure anything short of boarding the fence up entirely would keep her away.

(Oh, but the chicken wire buffer would be both affordable and probably deter her... we might try that for a while. Not exactly aesthetic... but it might at least break the cycle until we can get some cover planted. Thanks!)

cornflake said:
If you approach it like both your dogs are having problems getting along through the fence and you're worried about the fence being broken and etc., maybe they'll be more amenable.

I think I will go over there armed with the concern that I think one of the dogs is digging and shouldn't we address that before whatever... that'll at least give me an in that's not "Hey, loser. Your dog is a nuisance!"

Otherwise, first question is is Maddie fixed?

She is. The other two, though, we think are intact males. Which is also annoying. Because who gets two intact male dogs and locks them in a yard and ignores them? That just seems like asking for problems.

And yeah, I think the dogs are ignored and neglected. I mean, they're "cared for"--they're fed, they have some shelter... the other day, someone threw a moldy, torn up armchair out there... I'm not sure what that was for... but they don't get any attention from what I can see.

Something else occurred - have the dogs been introduced?

No, they've met, and I think that's probably a big part of it. I'd really like to introduce them because 1) then I can see if that boxer really is aggressive or is just the complaining type, and 2) then maybe instead of fighting, they'll just whine for each other.

We had another neighbor at the old place who had a blue heeler puppy Maddie was allowed to meet. They never barked. The downside was that Maddie dug a huge hole under the fence so the pup could crawl under and play with her... Still, I'd much rather that than that alternative.

heza · Feb 14, 2014

Furious Deep said:
You have to live with these neighbors, so it will be up to you to decide what course of action you can live with. I would talk to them first with a solution of some sort in mind that you can suggest.

Yeah, we need to be better about communicating with neighbors. We both have a long history of renting, where you didn't confront anyone. You just put up with it until you moved. But now, I guess it's not quite sunk in that we have to find ways to compromise with people around us because we're all going to be here for a while.

You can also go the passive aggressive route (which I did too) and just stick an ultra sonic bark deterrent device in the yard. Such as this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000N2N9DU/?tag=absowrit-20

Works pretty well.

That actually looks promising. I've never used one. Are there any moral objections to that sort of thing, like someone people feel there are with shock collars or electric fences? Does it cause pain?

If that doesn't help I would file a complaint with the Police. Disturbing the peace is disturbing the peace.

Technically, since Maddie's a party to it, we're also disturbing the peace. I'd rather just talk the other people into taking better care of their dogs.

It's just been so hard. We spend hours out there trying to calm her down and do negative/positive reinforcement to try to keep her from participating... But no sooner do we get her calmed down than the other dog starts checking the fence again and growling and barking and that just sets her off again. If they'd come out at the same time and scold their dogs, we might could manage something--but I have never once heard them come out to call their dogs down. I don't think they care that their dogs are making noise.

veinglory · Feb 14, 2014

Ultrasonic bark deterant basic make a sound (like a dog whistle with a button). It happens to be a sound most dogs can hear and most people can't. Being ultrasound it can only travel short distances and probably not through a fence. Really it is no different to just having a buzzer except the neighbor won't know you are using it.

It makes some dogs stop for a while because of the novelty, some dogs are afraid of novelty and will run from it, some dogs are angered by random sounds and bark at it. Most will eventually learn it is meaningless and ignore it.

cornflake · Feb 14, 2014

That they leave the dogs out there all the time with no stuff (toys, lots of water, etc.) does not give me a good feeling either, but...

I'd still try going over there first. I wouldn't go with the digging because that's their dog doing it and it'll put them on the defensive. I'd say like, all your dogs bark at each other and last place you lived once the dogs were all introduced, that got much better, so you thought maybe we could introduce them because they're also at the fence and gosh, we wouldn't want the fence damaged just because they don't know who's on the other side, or whatever.

They might slam the door but at least you'd know where you stand and then you could move on to other things. They might invite you in to introduce Maddie and that might help some.

As to the barrier thing - maybe you could half-ass it, if it's a long fence, until you could do the whole thing or they'd all give up?

Like if you planted bushes X feet apart and put stakes and plastic netting between them, creating like an inner netting fence with bushes as posts? You'd obviously know if it'd stop Maddie from getting too close to the fence but you could maybe try it out by putting some plastic netting tightly between trees or something and see if she respects it? If she/they did give up with intermittent bushes and netting, eventually you could likely pull the netting with no consequence.

cornflake · Feb 14, 2014

Oh, also, since she does look to be at least part border, and you say it's a big yard and she likes you guys out with her - is there something else for her to do?

If you put up some basic agility course stuff or something for her, or even got a ramp or two and a frisbee, and showed her you'll play, it might be more distracting for her?

Like instead of dragging her away, whistle and hold up the frisbee?

I know someone plays fetch with her very, very energetic, very, very tennis-ball adoring dog by standing and hitting the ball with a racquet. Sit on the porch with a racquet and coffee and let her go nuts and burn off some energy?

heza · Feb 14, 2014

The bushes/netting idea is probably good. I'll probably see if we can do it with plants and chicken wire... so it's a little prettier. I don't know. I'll talk to the husband about landscaping.

Doing.... Maddie most likes to have people with her. Second to that, she likes to watch birds and squirrels. Third, she likes to pace the yard, weaving in and out of the landscaping.

Since it's a new house, the yard is huge and barren. It's the dead of winter, so I'm not sure we can even plant for another few months. We will though. We're trying to map out plans for a yard with lots of interesting little trails and hiding spots for her--hopefully some landscaping will bring more wildlife to entertain her. I tried putting up feeders, but they won't come with all that wide open space around... Also, a hawk perches on our telephone pole. :/

But she won't fetch or tug or really do anything. She has a bunch of toys but she'll only play with them for a few seconds at a time. She likes us to chase her in big circles sometimes, but if the other dogs bark while she's doing that, she immediately stops and goes to the fence and we are dead to her.

She won't do agility. I've tried and tried to get her on the equipment at the dog park, and she won't go near it. But we recently learned about lure courses, so we're trying to figure out how to build her one of those.

Maryn · Feb 14, 2014

Side note: You can have successful feeders with a hawk around if you provide bushes and bushy trees for the smaller birds' protected retreat, placed very near the area where you want to feed them. Something simple like red twig dogwood or butterfly bushes works fine.

Keep it in mind for spring when you can plant.

Maryn, with feeders and sometimes a hawk

Inky · Feb 14, 2014

Left out during ice storms????
Oh HELL no!!
Open up the Yellow Pages.
Get online.
Time to look up local animal protection groups.
Other neighbors may have already called and complained about their indifference as well!

Furious Deep · Feb 14, 2014

Inky said:
Left out during ice storms????
Oh HELL no!!
Open up the Yellow Pages.
Get online.
Time to look up local animal protection groups.
Other neighbors may have already called and complained about their indifference as well!

Yup. They were arresting people for leaving their dogs outside during the snow storm. If those dogs are outside all the time by themselves they are going to bark. Non-stop. All the time. It makes them crazy in the same way that solitary confinement makes people crazy. I would bark all the time too if I were in their situation.

Call a rescue group. Some of them are tenacious when it comes to this sort of thing. They will practically stalk the owners until they either surrender the dogs or they have enough evidence to prosecute.

Jinxy · Feb 16, 2014

heza said:
And I'm timid to report them. I wouldn't mind mind at all if the owners would just get fined, but I hate to do something that ends the dogs up in a shelter, you know?

Honestly, the dogs might be better off in a shelter, especially if the owners are leaving them outside in snow storms. It's not like getting taken to a shelter is automatically a death sentence - the humane society in my town doesn't euthanize animals at all unless they're so aggressive that they're unadoptable. At least the dogs would be properly taken care of there and have a chance at getting a decent home.

frimble3 · Feb 16, 2014

As to the fencing/landscaping: if you're going to put up a line of chicken-wire fence to keep the dogs off the 'real' fence, might it be worth the trouble of digging down along the fence line and burying an additional strip of chicken-wire, so that if their dog digs through, he'll hit the wire and be unable to actually cross?
Also, as to the landscaping: as shrubs take a while to grow, and biggish ones are expensive, have you considered going with some sort of ivy or other climber? I know they can be invasive nuisances in come cases, but if you ask locally, you might find something local and suitable. My first thought was what we call 'Morning Glory' and people in grain-growing regions call 'Bindweed'. Fast growing, pretty flowers, excellent fence-coverage, but hard to eradicate. Where I used to live, the municipality would come out and spray weed-killer on it for you. But there must be something suited to your part of Texas that would work.

GingerGunlock · Feb 17, 2014

Oh those poor dogs

I have a Doberman. She is NOT left outside. It is not a breed emotionally built to just be left outside all the time; their whole point is to be with their people. Also, they just have a single coat, so extremes of temperature are not good either.

I would be really hesitant to install a bark deterrent thing like that if the dogs were outside all the time. If they can't get inside, they can't get away from it, and it would make their lives more miserable than they already sound. I belong to a Doberman message board where somebody's neighbor installed one of these, and her dogs (not even really barkers) were afraid to go out back

Inky said:
Left out during ice storms????
Oh HELL no!!
Open up the Yellow Pages.
Get online.
Time to look up local animal protection groups.
Other neighbors may have already called and complained about their indifference as well!

This. Definitely this. Even if there's no SPCA, the police themselves probably have laws regarding how long its acceptable to keep dogs outside, and in what condition.

heza · Feb 18, 2014

I don't have any real updates on this, except that the husband and I talked about everything you guys suggested. We haven't gone over there and talk to them, yet, because I hurt my back on Saturday and didn't feel like talking the dog all the way over there and then, depending on how introductions went, possibly breaking up a dog fight. And I think I still need to think through how I'll verbally approach them so they don't get defensive.

But we did research some garden wire and talk about how we would want to install it. Husband wants to put a bunch of pool noodles on top of it just in case she tries to jump over it. Not the season for them, really, but I guess you can get anything on Amazon.

Maryn said:
Side note: You can have successful feeders with a hawk around if you provide bushes and bushy trees for the smaller birds' protected retreat, placed very near the area where you want to feed them. Something simple like red twig dogwood or butterfly bushes works fine.

I was thrilled to see a flock of blackbirds take interest in my feeder--less thrilled to know they can eat through a seed bell in two hours, though... But the dog had a lot of fun scattering them. We have new neighbors on the other side of the yard, and they have also put up a bird feeder. So maybe it'll be more interesting from now on.

Jinxy said:
Honestly, the dogs might be better off in a shelter, especially if the owners are leaving them outside in snow storms. It's not like getting taken to a shelter is automatically a death sentence - the humane society in my town doesn't euthanize animals at all unless they're so aggressive that they're unadoptable. At least the dogs would be properly taken care of there and have a chance at getting a decent home.

I'm sure they'd be better off with a rescue, but we actually do have a pretty high kill rate at shetlers around these parts, from what I hear.

frimble3 said:
Also, as to the landscaping: as shrubs take a while to grow, and biggish ones are expensive, have you considered going with some sort of ivy or other climber? I know they can be invasive nuisances in come cases, but if you ask locally, you might find something local and suitable. My first thought was what we call 'Morning Glory' and people in grain-growing regions call 'Bindweed'. Fast growing, pretty flowers, excellent fence-coverage, but hard to eradicate. Where I used to live, the municipality would come out and spray weed-killer on it for you. But there must be something suited to your part of Texas that would work.

Around here... Wisteria, maybe? I see it all over the place in the areas that haven't been cleared for development. I'm not sure I can talk the husband into letting ivy grown on the fence. It would make for a pretty visual barrier, but he's been obsessed with the fence lately. I worry he might think it'll rot the fence faster. We'll talk about it, though.

GingerGunlock said:
I have a Doberman. She is NOT left outside. It is not a breed emotionally built to just be left outside all the time; their whole point is to be with their people. Also, they just have a single coat, so extremes of temperature are not good either.

Yeah, I was really worried about them. I'm not entirely sure they were left out all night that night. I remember waking up (but we go to be early) and hearing that dog yelping at their back door. And I was very concerned, so I put on all my clothes to go over to their house and wake them up over it. But all of a sudden the yelping stopped. So I peaked through the fence and I couldn't see the dogs anymore... and I wonder whether they'd hid somewhere in a corner I could see or if the owner finally put them in the garage (there's a door to the garage in the yard). I hope the latter.

This. Definitely this. Even if there's no SPCA, the police themselves probably have laws regarding how long its acceptable to keep dogs outside, and in what condition.

I'll start documenting what I hear and see and if it doesn't improve, I'll figure out who to talk to about getting the dogs some help.

Sheryl Nantus · Feb 18, 2014

While I know you don't want to talk to the neighbors I think it's important that you at least make an attempt to see what their side is.

It's possible, although from your statements not likely, that they might agree that there's problems and work with you to fix them.

And if they're nasty idiots at least you can document it and know where you stand - especially if you end up calling the authorities. Because their first question is likely to be "did you talk to them?" and if you have the answer then it moves on from there.

Please keep us updated and stay safe!

frimble3 · Feb 18, 2014

heza said:
But we did research some garden wire and talk about how we would want to install it. Husband wants to put a bunch of pool noodles on top of it just in case she tries to jump over it. Not the season for them, really, but I guess you can get anything on Amazon.

Around here... Wisteria, maybe? I see it all over the place in the areas that haven't been cleared for development. I'm not sure I can talk the husband into letting ivy grown on the fence. It would make for a pretty visual barrier, but he's been obsessed with the fence lately. I worry he might think it'll rot the fence faster. We'll talk about it, though.

I wouldn't put plants directly on a wooden fence, it probably would rot the fence faster. I was thinking more of it to cover the 'backup' wire fence. Make it a little less obvious, muffle the sound, etc. If wisteria seems to be the local go-to, that might be perfect (especially in terms of it growing in untended areas waiting for redevelopment - a pretty sure sign of sturdiness. Lilac does that here. And Himalayan blackberry.)

Brightdreamer · Feb 18, 2014

Just as a caution about wisteria, if you're intending to plant it near a fence or any structure - it's been known to shift houses off their foundations. Also, the ASPCA site lists wisteria it as potentially toxic (if non-fatal) to dogs. Link Here

Just because it grows "wild" doesn't mean it's a great choice; it can also mean that a plant's invasive and hard to kill. (Kudzu, for instance... and bindweed... and English Ivy... and Japanese knotweet...)

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