introductory phrases and conjunctions

ArtsyAmy

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Been going back and forth on this one. Hoping my writer pals here can help me out. I know about using a comma before a coordinating conjunction that connects two independent clauses. I'm wondering about what to do if an introductory phrase that applies to both clauses is added to the beginning of the sentence. In such a case, do the clauses become dependent clauses and is the comma before the coordinating conjunction omitted? Such as in the preceding sentence--does "and" need a comma before it? Here's another sentence. (This sentence does not appear in my story--just a quickly thought up example sentence--not looking for feedback on the sentence separate from the grammar question above.)

By one o'clock, the new neighbors were all moved in, and they were barbecuing on the back deck.

Or

By one o'clock, the new neighbors were all moved in and they were barbecuing on the back deck.

Seems to me that the comma before the coordinating conjunction (and) shouldn't be there, as I want to say two things: (1) by one o'clock, the new neighbors were all moved in, and (2) by one o'clock, they were barbecuing on the back deck. With the comma before "and," I think it may appear that the coordinating conjuntion applies only to the first clause.

Thanks for any help on this.

Amy
 
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AndyD

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In this instance, I'd ask why you have two clauses at all? Why not just "...were moved in and barbecuing on the back deck."

I'd be careful with your use of "all" here as well. For me, it muddles whether there were multiple sets of new neighbors moving in.

If you are going to keep it as two clauses, the introductory clause applies to both regardless whether you've a comma, by my reading.
 
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Chase

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By one o'clock, the new neighbors were all moved in, and they were barbecuing on the back deck.

Yes, the introductory element introduces both clauses, and the comma separating main clauses is correct because they remain a compound element.
 

nealraisman

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You surely do not need the second comma. there is no value for it unless you are trying to have the reader pause before the last clause.
 

Bufty

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:Ssh:

Commas are NOT instructions to pause.

You surely do not need the second comma. there is no value for it unless you are trying to have the reader pause before the last clause.
 
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Jamesaritchie

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By one o'clock, the new neighbors were all moved in, and they were barbecuing on the back deck.


Amy

Off topic, but there's a good exercise in getting rid of a needless "they".
 

Jamesaritchie

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You surely do not need the second comma. there is no value for it unless you are trying to have the reader pause before the last clause.

Forget pauses. You do not, or should not, ever use a comma because you want a pause, or omit one because you don't want a pause. Know the rules, follow the rules.
 

Tinman

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You surely do not need the second comma. there is no value for it unless you are trying to have the reader pause before the last clause.

I agree with you on the comma/pause. There is a bit of a reading pause when encountering a comma. In sentences that ordinarily call for a comma, but you don't want the reader to pause, discard it if sentence clarity doesn't suffer. Are there places where you can add a comma where one isn't technically required? Probably. I know some disagree; I just don't think the idea is so black and white.


. . . When your story's true it doesn't change

the use of the comma (there is none in the line . . . because I want you to hear it coming out all in one breath, without a pause) . . .

Stephen King
On Writing
(pgs 132-133 hardback)
 
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Chase

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. . . When your story's true it doesn't change

the use of the comma (there is none in the line . . . because I want you to hear it coming out all in one breath, without a pause) . . .

Stephen King
On Writing
(pgs 132-133)

Sounds like a high school teacher too busy with extracurricular activities than to teach pesky comma rules. :D 'Cause I loved Carrie, I'm glad he was otherwise occupied.
But isn't he the guy who claims the trailing apostrophe for missing letters isn't necessary, but the internal ones are? (On Writing)
Same guy who thinks the Glock 22 shoots .22 ammo? (Dr. Sleep 353)
The one who confuses further (Dr. Sleep 405) with farther? (Dr. Sleep 425)
A less-than-careful rule breaker is hardly the best example of a rule maker. :Shrug:
 
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