Eddie Redmayne as Lili Elbe

Diana Hignutt · Feb 27, 2015

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kimberleyda...-eddie-redmayne-as-transgender-pai#.qa2aK3EB7

I'm conflicted on this one honestly. Lili Elbe is an iconic trans figure. There's a lot of displeasure at the idea of any actor of the male persuasion playing a transwoman. Some people think you should get women (trans or otherwise) to play such characters. Some argue that back in Lili's day they didn't have hormones and facial surgery so it makes sense that a man should play the part in this instance. But, the Oscar-Winning Best Actor looks terrific in the photo as Lili, I have to admit. Your thoughts?

Usher · Feb 27, 2015

I think he looks fantastic. I'll wait and see when I watch the movie how good he is. I know when I saw Michael Starke as Edna Turnblad I never once thought he was a bloke in a dress he played her as a woman and it was fab

Diana Hignutt · Feb 27, 2015

Usher said:
I think he looks fantastic. I'll wait and see when I watch the movie how good he is. I know when I saw Michael Starke as Edna Turnblad I never once thought he was a bloke in a dress he played her as a woman and it was fab

And a lot of people liked the white dudes that played Charlie Chan back in the day too, but it's no less offensive. It does kind of send the message that helps to validate bad stereotypes to the public , yep transwomen are simply men in dressed as woman (even if convincingly). I wonder about the politics of it. I wonder about wondering about the politics of it.

I'm not sure we've even had a transwoman before Laverne Cox play a transwoman character in a major role.

And, this is nothing against Eddie Redmayne, who looks a lot like Jessica Chastain to me. I just wished (or do I?) that they had gone with a transwoman, or any sort of woman (Nicole Kidman and Rachael Weiss both had to drop the role for scheduling reasons.)

Usher · Feb 27, 2015

And, this is nothing against Eddie Redmayne, who looks a lot like Jessica Chastain to me. I just wished (or do I?)

I'd personally rather have the person who plays the part best. I've recently been involved in having my work cast by a BBC producer (only a minute sketch but we're working on a sit-com as well). And in my head my character was in their sixties but the best audition was blonde in her twenties. It works and is actually far funnier.

As this was a real person -- I think it's more important a good job is done. I'd feel differently if the character was fictional. I think maybe gender blind casting is best for these roles. I'm not trans though it's my husband who is and he is still a long way from going all the way. If a woman played him (pronouns change when he does and right now he's snoring his head off) at this stage I'd feel strange about it to be honest. Later on I may feel differently.

auzerais · Feb 27, 2015

Usher said:
I'd personally rather have the person who plays the part best.

This is a lovely, egalitarian way of looking at it; unfortunately, in practice, trans people do not get cast in any roles. (Or, very few, to be more precise.) It is not that a transwoman is the only person who can adequately play a transwoman; there may be many cisgendered men and women who can do it just fine. The problem is that trans actors are not often sought out to play cisgendered roles, and then they are not sought out to play trans roles, either. Which is why it chafes when a trans part is given to a non-trans actor. Surely a trans actor is the best person for some part, somewhere...so where are these people, and why is Laverne Cox the only one who is even remotely a household name?

If there were more representation of the trans community within the acting/theater/film/whathaveyou community, it would be less of an issue.

maxmordon · Feb 27, 2015

Diana Hignutt said:
I'm not sure we've even had a transwoman before Laverne Cox play a transwoman character in a major role.

For the Venezuelan movie Cheila, they used a transwoman actress to play the protagonist: a transwoman who returns home after living abroad trying to make amends with her past. IIRC they shot the flashback scenes first early in the actress' transition and then waited for a year or so to shoot the present-day scenes.

eyeblink · Feb 28, 2015

Usher said:
I'm in the UK we had Hayley in Coronation Street, not that I watched it.

Played by a cis woman (Julie Hesmondhalgh) though. Talking of Julie H, she's a lead in Russell T. Davies's interconnected series Cucumber and Banana, currently airing in the UK. One of the secondary characters is a transwoman, played by a real transwoman (Bethany Black). RTD insisted on that.

As for real trans people playing trans characters on screen, there's the late International Chrysis, who played a featured role in the film Q & A, from 1990, the year she died. Alexis Arquette is still working post-transition, but I haven't seen any of the films she's done recently.

I have seen the 1970 British film I Want What I Want, in which Anne Heywood plays MTF trans. The film is certainly well-meaning but it's so overheatedly earnest it becomes camp. Heywood does not convince as a man in the earlier scenes. It hasn't been on UK TV for over thirty years and has never emerged on VHS or DVD either - I caught a showing at the London LGBT Film Festival several years ago. I haven't seen Girl Stroke Boy from 1973, in which the parents of a teenage boy wonder if his new loved one Jo is a girl or a boy. She or he was played by a man, Peter Straker, who was billed as "Straker" to preserve the mystery. That also used to turn up on TV now and again but hasn't done so for thirty years or more and again no VHS or DVD.

Usher · Feb 28, 2015

auzerais said:
This is a lovely, egalitarian way of looking at it; unfortunately, in practice, trans people do not get cast in any roles. (Or, very few, to be more precise.)
.

If there was a transwoman or someone intersexed (well actually the latter maybe true) in the frame I'd agree with you but there isn't. It's a man or a woman. As this is a real person I think a good job by a man is better than a mediocre job with a woman -- especially given the women in the running for the role. If it was a fictional character then my view would be different.

I was tired and ill last night so possibly not expressing my view as clearly as I should.

Usher · Feb 28, 2015

eyeblink said:
Played by a cis woman (Julie Hesmondhalgh) though. Talking of Julie H, she's a lead in Russell T. Davies's interconnected series Cucumber and Banana, currently airing in the UK. One of the secondary characters is a transwoman, played by a real transwoman (Bethany Black). RTD insisted on that.

D.

Yes I realised that overnight and just deleted my comment. Sorry I was ill last night and hadn't really watched it. I haven't watched Cucumber and Bananas yet - I'm having a night with my friend to catch up.

I'm working on a sit-com at the moment and have been asked for casting suggestions (it's still a long way from anything positive) -- I want an amputee to play my amputee. I'm trying to work in a transman but my writing ability might not be able to cope with it. My script writing experience is minimal so I'm in the deep end with no floatation device and no swimming experience.

However, my recent experience has taught me a lesson and sometimes compromise works out better. It's hard to know what's the best. I'd wanted an older character but the younger girl was better.

Diana Hignutt · Feb 28, 2015

auzerais said:
This is a lovely, egalitarian way of looking at it; unfortunately, in practice, trans people do not get cast in any roles. (Or, very few, to be more precise.) It is not that a transwoman is the only person who can adequately play a transwoman; there may be many cisgendered men and women who can do it just fine. The problem is that trans actors are not often sought out to play cisgendered roles, and then they are not sought out to play trans roles, either. Which is why it chafes when a trans part is given to a non-trans actor. Surely a trans actor is the best person for some part, somewhere...so where are these people, and why is Laverne Cox the only one who is even remotely a household name?

If there were more representation of the trans community within the acting/theater/film/whathaveyou community, it would be less of an issue.

And that, of course, is why I have any sort of issue with Eddie taking on this role. The other way of looking at is a more pragmatic one though. Eddie just won an Oscar for Best Actor, that fact will bring a lot more attention to this movie than it would have had if an unknown transwoman had won the role. Ergo, Lili's story will reach a bigger audience, which is a trans win in the end, even if employment opportunity justice has to suffer for it.

So, I'm still up in the air on this one.

Rhoda Nightingale · Feb 28, 2015

Conflicted for all the reasons Diana mentioned. Personally, when I see one of my *favorite* actors take on an LGBT role, it makes me happy inside, because to me that means they support LGBT rights. At least, that's how I choose to look at it until proven otherwise.

Also, having a big name (either blockbuster money-maker or Oscar-winner) in a role like that will gain exposure, which is a good thing.

However.

Trans actors exist. They get ignored (or worse) all the damn time. I hope getting the word "transgender" more normalized is a step towards eradicating that, but I just don't know.

Tangent: Holy shit, he DOES look like Jessica Chastain! I will never unsee that now. 0_0

Diana Hignutt · Mar 1, 2015

Rhoda Nightingale said:
Conflicted for all the reasons Diana mentioned. Personally, when I see one of my *favorite* actors take on an LGBT role, it makes me happy inside, because to me that means they support LGBT rights. At least, that's how I choose to look at it until proven otherwise.

Also, having a big name (either blockbuster money-maker or Oscar-winner) in a role like that will gain exposure, which is a good thing.

However.

Trans actors exist. They get ignored (or worse) all the damn time. I hope getting the word "transgender" more normalized is a step towards eradicating that, but I just don't know.

Tangent: Holy shit, he DOES look like Jessica Chastain! I will never unsee that now. 0_0

It's weird, right?

DancingMaenid · Mar 1, 2015

Usher said:
If there was a transwoman or someone intersexed (well actually the latter maybe true) in the frame I'd agree with you but there isn't. It's a man or a woman.

I think that's a bit complicated. To be fair, there are trans people who don't pass perfectly or who have physical characteristics commonly associated with their assigned genders. But there are also many people who do pass very well and look like any other person man or woman. So there's no reason why trans actors couldn't play cis characters. If cis actors can play trans people, the reverse can work, too.

On the other hand, there are situations where you need an actor with particular physical characteristics. A trans actress who has been on hormones and had surgery may not be the best fit for an MTF role where the woman has not physically transitioned.

Ideally, people would be considered based on how well they fit the role now, both in terms of talent and physical appearance. Not their gender, chromosomes, or medical history.

But since trans actors often have a hard time getting cis roles, I can see why a lot of people are uncomfortable when they don't get trans ones, either.

Rhoda Nightingale · Mar 4, 2015

Just found this article on TheMarySue.com--my new favorite pop culture/news site.

J.S.F. · Mar 6, 2015

Diana Hignutt said:
And that, of course, is why I have any sort of issue with Eddie taking on this role. The other way of looking at is a more pragmatic one though. Eddie just won an Oscar for Best Actor, that fact will bring a lot more attention to this movie than it would have had if an unknown transwoman had won the role. Ergo, Lili's story will reach a bigger audience, which is a trans win in the end, even if employment opportunity justice has to suffer for it.

So, I'm still up in the air on this one.

---

This is a fair enough point. However, the bottom line with Hollywood is if the project will sell and make cash, and that means they go with the actor/actress who the producers think will be able to carry the picture. Everyone had simliar issues with Scarlet Johannson taking on the role of Lucy which made some cash but pissed off critics and PoC advocates (and I agree with them, by and large, and thought the picture could've been way better, but I'm digressing now).

With this kind of picture, though, I wonder how many people would be willing to see it. Those from the transgender community, certainly. Those who have slightly more opened minds, yes. I'd see it, because the subject is A) a true story, and B) fascinating. I'd be interested in seeing how they'll write the script. I'm willing to bet, though, that it won't get widespread distribution, because mainstream North America still has an unfortunate hangup over gender and gender identity.

Isn't there an actress named Nicole who is a transwoman and is acting on television? Sorry, I don't get much foreign television where I live, just reruns of CSI and some lousy Korean dramas.

Diana Hignutt · Mar 6, 2015

And then you have people like Neil Patrick Harris who gets cis male roles, gay male roles, and trans female roles. Dude, save some for everybody else.

Eddie Redmayne as Lili Elbe

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired

Usher

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired

Usher

auzerais

I like puppies.

maxmordon

Penúltimo

eyeblink

Barbara says hi

Usher

Usher

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired

Rhoda Nightingale

Vampire Junkie

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired

DancingMaenid

New kid...seven years ago!

Rhoda Nightingale

Vampire Junkie

J.S.F.

Red fish, blue fish...

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired