English-speaking readers and foreign literature

RetsReds · Mar 26, 2015

Hi fellas!

I have a question for you - and especially for the native English speakers amongst you - as readers: How often do you read translated literature? The statistics say only 6% of all literature bought in the US for example is foreign, but every forum and group I ask in, I get told that English speakers actually crave foreign literature and want more and more of it. I'm interested because I'm not a native English speaker and write in a foreign language with the intention of translation and self-publishing online in English.

I recently started working with a professional translator and also launched a crowdfunding campaign about it (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/when-they-shine-brightest-a-fantasy-novel/).
And while the results are promising - 50% of the goal for 25% of the time - all that is from my countrymen and not from English speakers. Both IndieGoGo’s English speaking audience and the groups and forums I’ve been participating in recently haven’t taken any part whatsoever. And the campaign is – I believe – pretty well done and with very tempting (for a westerner, especially) perks, so the only conclusion that I can reach is simply that translated literature is kind of … snubbed in the English speaking part of the world.

What do you think? Do English speakers care for translated literature (or for book crowdfunding for that matter) and should I have just launched the whole thing in my native language? Because at the moment it feels that way.

Thanks!

Abderian · Mar 26, 2015

Not sure you're going to get an accurate response on here. Although writers are readers, often the reverse isn't true. If the statistics say 6%, I don't see any reason to disbelieve them

I rarely read translated literature. Not because I have anything against it, but because there's so little available. I'm not interested in reading translations for the sake of it. I only want a good story, translated or not. I'm not going to seek out translations for the sake of it.

Write a good story. Get it translated. Market it. Why would the fact that it's translated make a difference?

RetsReds · Mar 26, 2015

Abderian said:
Not sure you're going to get an accurate response on here. Although writers are readers, often the reverse isn't true. If the statistics say 6%, I don't see any reason to disbelieve them

I rarely read translated literature. Not because I have anything against it, but because there's so little available. I'm not interested in reading translations for the sake of it. I only want a good story, translated or not. I'm not going to seek out translations for the sake of it.

Write a good story. Get it translated. Market it. Why would the fact that it's translated make a difference?

That's what I'm asking. Because there's plenty of good translated literature, but people don't read it.

The CF campaign being a prime example - it was trending for a week, it's well done, it has very lucrative perks and yet - no English-speakers participated and instead funded only non-translated literature.

Helix · Mar 26, 2015

I think it might vary by genre. Anecdote alert: I'm a crime fiction fan and I've read a number of translated works -- mostly those written in Scandinavian languages, Spanish and Afrikaans. (I'm not in the US. Dunno if that makes a difference.)

cornflake · Mar 27, 2015

RetsReds said:
That's what I'm asking. Because there's plenty of good translated literature, but people don't read it.

The CF campaign being a prime example - it was trending for a week, it's well done, it has very lucrative perks and yet - no English-speakers participated and instead funded only non-translated literature.

People don't read it? Based on what? I've got several novels that were originally in different languages. I can think, off the top of my head, of at least a handful of writers who have been bestsellers and/or award-winners in the U.S. who wrote in other languages.

There are a lot of books.

Why, in a general sense, would people pay to have a book translated into English that they don't know, from an author they'd never heard of? I don't mean anything bad, but there are tons of books for sale already.

I looked and I don't understand why the perks are meant to be particularly enticing, but I don't know what would be really from an unknown author. It's just how it is.

If you were Jo Nesbo fallen on hard times asking for donations for a translation and offering signed books, it'd get a lot of donations from English speakers; he's a known quantity and people would be eager to read the book. There's nothing really saying what makes yours special among tons of debut fantasy self-published books going up on Amazon daily, if you see what I mean.

RetsReds · Mar 27, 2015

cornflake said:
People don't read it? Based on what? I've got several novels that were originally in different languages. I can think, off the top of my head, of at least a handful of writers who have been bestsellers and/or award-winners in the U.S. who wrote in other languages.

There are a lot of books.

Why, in a general sense, would people pay to have a book translated into English that they don't know, from an author they'd never heard of? I don't mean anything bad, but there are tons of books for sale already.

I looked and I don't understand why the perks are meant to be particularly enticing, but I don't know what would be really from an unknown author. It's just how it is.

If you were Jo Nesbo fallen on hard times asking for donations for a translation and offering signed books, it'd get a lot of donations from English speakers; he's a known quantity and people would be eager to read the book. There's nothing really saying what makes yours special among tons of debut fantasy self-published books going up on Amazon daily, if you see what I mean.

All true.

However, while there are some translated authors that are read and bought, they're still a vast minority.

Secondly - yes, of course you'd be more reluctant to support an unknown author compared to a known one. I'm not comparing known vs unknown here, I'm comparing unknown translated authors vs unknown non-translated.

As for the perks - a common value range for the "Ebook perk" in CF campaigns is 10-15$. Mine is 4$ because the standard in Buglaria is much lower than in the west. Same goes for the other perks.

Please note that I'm not complaining. This is not a "Nah, nah, I'm whining!" post - the campaign is actually doing great. I'm also not saying you don't read translated literature or that no-one does. I'm just wondering why the percentage is so low. Yes, a translation can change the quality of the book, but it can change it both for the bad and for the good so that shouldn't be an argument.

Just wondering, that's all.

cornflake · Mar 27, 2015

RetsReds said:
All true.

However, while there are some translated authors that are read and bought, they're still a vast minority.

Secondly - yes, of course you'd be more reluctant to support an unknown author compared to a known one. I'm not comparing known vs unknown here, I'm comparing unknown translated authors vs unknown non-translated.

As for the perks - a common value range for the "Ebook perk" in CF campaigns is 10-15$. Mine is 4$ because the standard in Buglaria is much lower than in the west. Same goes for the other perks.

Please note that I'm not complaining. This is not a "Nah, nah, I'm whining!" post - the campaign is actually doing great. I'm also not saying you don't read translated literature or that no-one does. I'm just wondering why the percentage is so low. Yes, a translation can change the quality of the book, but it can change it both for the bad and for the good so that shouldn't be an argument.

Just wondering, that's all.

How much of a minority? How many translated works are there and what percentage of them is read or bought vs. non?

Unknown translated to unknown not is going to put the translated at a disadvantage for a number of reasons. Would the average Bulgarian be more likely to support a Bulgarian writer asking for $5 or a Chinese writer asking for $5 to translate his Chinese novel into Bulgarian (I realize the $ is wrong, but it's on my kb so pretend it's translated.

)? That 'it might be worse OR it might be better OR it might be roughly the same, who can tell, so that shouldn't dissuade you,' isn't, imo, an argument for translated works, but against.

I said I have a bunch of translated stuff and I do. Some is pop culture - and like the duck said, Scandinavian crime seems to be big, along with South American insufferable litfic and magical realism - which there are no options on. Some is stuff there are options on and I'm picky as hell and do my research. There are a couple of things I've got like three or more translations of, by different translators, because it matters. It's writing, all there are are words.

Somewhat related to the first and second is the unknown factor. Scandinavian crime has been a thing for a while, so people buy it partly at least because they're pretty confident in what they'll get. There's a particular type of this particular type of genre that reads as Scandinavian, atm, same as the classic British detective novel or American western. You know what you're getting. Fantasy is fantasy, but crime is crime too and thus people may not have any idea what they'd get out of a Bulgarian fantasy novel, and thus be more reluctant to care.

RetsReds · Mar 27, 2015

cornflake said:
How much of a minority? How many translated works are there and what percentage of them is read or bought vs. non?

Unknown translated to unknown not is going to put the translated at a disadvantage for a number of reasons. Would the average Bulgarian be more likely to support a Bulgarian writer asking for $5 or a Chinese writer asking for $5 to translate his Chinese novel into Bulgarian (I realize the $ is wrong, but it's on my kb so pretend it's translated. )? That 'it might be worse OR it might be better OR it might be roughly the same, who can tell, so that shouldn't dissuade you,' isn't, imo, an argument for translated works, but against.

I said I have a bunch of translated stuff and I do. Some is pop culture - and like the duck said, Scandinavian crime seems to be big, along with South American insufferable litfic and magical realism - which there are no options on. Some is stuff there are options on and I'm picky as hell and do my research. There are a couple of things I've got like three or more translations of, by different translators, because it matters. It's writing, all there are are words.

Somewhat related to the first and second is the unknown factor. Scandinavian crime has been a thing for a while, so people buy it partly at least because they're pretty confident in what they'll get. There's a particular type of this particular type of genre that reads as Scandinavian, atm, same as the classic British detective novel or American western. You know what you're getting. Fantasy is fantasy, but crime is crime too and thus people may not have any idea what they'd get out of a Bulgarian fantasy novel, and thus be more reluctant to care.

The percentage is 6%.

And again, all true, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying that "I'm at a disadvantage" - I'm not complaining. As I said, the campaign is doing fine, precisely because of the Bulgarian audience and it's lucrative perks (several non-Bulgarians have joined but not from the platform's audience). So I'm not whining for being "ignored", "in a disadvantageous position" or anything like that. I'm just wondering why the percentage is just 6%, considering that most readers I talk with in forums and groups (here too, so far) say that in fact they love foreign literature and read it a lot. The only thing I can think of is fear that "something might be lost in translation" which - in truth - does happen, but often it's the other way around - a good translation can enrich a novel.

As for the last point, yes, that might be a factor - there's not such thing as a "typical Bulgarian fantasy". Or, well, there is, but my novel is not that, I've described it in the campaign is a "modern fantasy with low-fantasy element".

oceansoul · Mar 27, 2015

I do, sometimes. But generally only if the book is a 'classic.' That being said, I do really like a lot of Spanish writers, and will go out of my way to pick up Magical Realism books originally written in Spanish. I'm not sure why, but they have a very particular feel that I really enjoy.

cornflake · Mar 27, 2015

Yeah but 6% of what?

I mean I get 6% of the literature if foreign, but that doesn't really explain anything. Is that 6% of the literature sold per year, or newly released, or etc. How much is shopped to the U.S.? Just because it's 6% doesn't mean there's lots that's being rejected; maybe there's not a lot being offered. Even if there is more being offered, there could be many reasons why it's not here - cost, market for genre, themes, possible need to rewrite stuff (the early Harry Potters had slang changed, iirc, and the dang things were written in English, heh), yada yada.

RetsReds · Mar 27, 2015

cornflake said:
Yeah but 6% of what?

I mean I get 6% of the literature if foreign, but that doesn't really explain anything. Is that 6% of the literature sold per year, or newly released, or etc. How much is shopped to the U.S.? Just because it's 6% doesn't mean there's lots that's being rejected; maybe there's not a lot being offered. Even if there is more being offered, there could be many reasons why it's not here - cost, market for genre, themes, possible need to rewrite stuff (the early Harry Potters had slang changed, iirc, and the dang things were written in English, heh), yada yada.

I haven't looked into the detailed statistics because they're insignificant to the point and to the question I asked. No matter how deep into the details we go the percentage won't jump from 6% to 60% - it'll still be low. And I'm not saying this neither as a criticism to English-speakers, nor as a complaint - I'm just curious why this is so and I ask the question so I can get a bit more insight on the western reader.

Cath · Mar 27, 2015

I don't choose books based on whether they're translated or not; I choose books based on whether they appeal to me. Which means there needs to be something that resonates with me and what I like to read before I pick it up. It also means I have to be exposed to it somewhere.

I'm sure I've read books I didn't even realize were translations (I usually skip the front matter and dive straight into the story), but that's because I simply don't care. If it's a good story well told and in a genre I like to read, I'll read it.

Cathy C · Mar 27, 2015

When I was a contest judge for the ITW awards, I read several "first time in English" foreign entries. They really didn't resonate with me, so I haven't sought out more.It's tough for me to say why, but most of the ones I didn't like had characters I couldn't get into or cultural/historical/societal references that didn't make sense, that distracted from the plot. I prefer plot focused books (hence reading/writing thrillers) so anything that drags me out of the plot gets low marks. :Shrug:

mirandashell · Mar 27, 2015

I ask the question so I can get a bit more insight on the western reader.

And there's another thing. You're talking like we in 'the West' are all the same. I think you actually just mean America?

Not that I'm complaining but I just want to be sure. It makes a difference.

I've read loads of translations without even thinking about them being translations. Mainly because I read crime fiction. I've also read a lot of classic books.

As someone said above, I just want a good story, I don't care who wrote it. I don't deliberately pick out a book just because it's been translated.

I'm also puzzled as to whether the different ethnic groups in America have been taken into account in that 6%. Or was it only the white part of the population that were counted as native English speakers? Any chance of a link to that research?

RetsReds · Mar 27, 2015

mirandashell said:
And there's another thing. You're talking like we in 'the West' are all the same. I think you actually just mean America?

Not that I'm complaining but I just want to be sure. It makes a difference.

I've read loads of translations without even thinking about them being translations. Mainly because I read crime fiction. I've also read a lot of classic books.

As someone said above, I just want a good story, I don't care who wrote it. I don't deliberately pick out a book just because it's been translated.

I'm also puzzled as to whether the different ethnic groups in America have been taken into account in that 6%. Or was it only the white part of the population that were counted as native English speakers? Any chance of a link to that research?

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to overgeneralize - of course "you are not all the same". Detailed and accurate statistics are just hard to come by when it comes to literature (or rather impossible because of pirating, lending etc.), so I'm just going by on the overall statistics about "the 6%" that's cited everywhere.
And yes, while I'm taking about English-speaking countries, I'm mainly talking about the US because a bigger portion of the audience of CF platforms such as IndieGoGo is from the US (as is the 6% statistics - in Europe it's much more different).
If you're feeling insulted, I'm sorry - it wasn't intentional. Of course I'm not implying that you're all the same or that there are cultural obstructs or anything similar. I just got curious - when it comes to traditionally publishing the main reason for the low amount of foreign literature is clear - economics. That can't be it in self-publishing tho.

Anyway, I am kind of tired for apologizing in every post so I think I'll close my question for now.

Again, sorry if I've offended anyone.

mirandashell · Mar 27, 2015

No, no! I'm not insulted at all. I just wanted to be exact about where we were talking about, as The West is a bit ambiguous.

I think your question was a little too wide for answer here, TBH. There's probably a lot of reasons as too why there isn't too much translated literature in America.

RetsReds · Mar 27, 2015

mirandashell said:
I think your question was a little too wide for answer here, TBH. There's probably a lot of reasons as too why there isn't too much translated literature in America.

I'm sure there are.

I just wanted to get insight on as many of them as possible - you need to know a market before (or in my case - at least upon) entering it.

I've heard quite a lot of ridiculous and obviously bullshit reasons so far, including, but not limited to "You're black-haired and have a beard - in the video you look like an Arab. What do you expect?!" - wrong on so many levels it's not even funny.

mirandashell · Mar 27, 2015

Unfortunately there's a lot of idiots out there.

Abderian · Mar 27, 2015

RetsReds said:
I'm sure there are. I just wanted to get insight on as many of them as possible - you need to know a market before (or in my case - at least upon) entering it.

I've heard quite a lot of ridiculous and obviously bullshit reasons so far, including, but not limited to "You're black-haired and have a beard - in the video you look like an Arab. What do you expect?!" - wrong on so many levels it's not even funny.

I'm not sure where you've heard such nonsense, but I honestly don't believe that stands for the majority.

You differentiate between translated works and those written by native speakers as if readers care. Readers don't care. All they care about is if the story works for them. I have never encountered that thought process, let alone the prejudice you seem to perceive.

RetsReds · Mar 27, 2015

Abderian said:
I'm not sure where you've heard such nonsense, but I honestly don't believe that stands for the majority.

You differentiate between translated works and those written by native speakers as if readers care. Readers don't care. All they care about is if the story works for them. I have never encountered that thought process, let alone the prejudice you seem to perceive.

I don't perceive it and I said I know it's ridiculous, nonsense and doesn't stand for the majority. I mentioned it for a quick laugh precisely for those reasons.

More and more people get offended by my post without reading my entire point carefully. It's apparently a sensitive subject to most so I withdraw my question. Sorry for bothering you and thanks for the answers.

Abderian · Mar 27, 2015

I was not offended. Perhaps the reason for lack of interest in your campaign is because the subject isn't thought of as important among English speakers?Translated works are either available or they aren't. On this side of the fence, we don't see the problem.

When you say 6% of literature read is translated, consider the percentage of translated literature available. According to this it's 3%. So in fact translated literature is quite popular, probably due to the fact that it has to be good to be translated in the first place.

J. Tanner · Mar 27, 2015

I've read that something like 2/3 of books sold are non-fiction and academic. So that means that 66% are right out. And then there's just this barrier of time and expense so I expect only the very top tier of non-english work is slated for translation to English as compared to new work which is a bigger crapshoot for publishers and can be obtained far more inexpensively from native english writers.

As a reader I just don't care. If it sounds like a good story and decently written I'll give it a try, and from observation I think I'm pretty typical. I've never heard anyone complain, for example, that Dragon Tattoo was a problem for them because it was translated--they always just say they didn't like the story/writing.

King Neptune · Mar 27, 2015

Another place where I go thre was a similar discussion, but it was from a different point of view, and it ended up being a discussion of the problems with translations. I have read a fair amount of fiction in translation and a little in French. The translations were generally not very good. I have gotten the impression that some translators lie to the authors of publishers about their abilities in English, and the result is barely readable. Most readers don't care whether it was a translation, as long as it is a good read.

If you have something good in Bulgarian and can produce a good translation, then it might be quite popular in English speaking areas. If the translator is not skilled in English, then don't waste the trouble of translating.

RetsReds · Mar 27, 2015

Ok, thanks for the replies. What would you say is the problem in my case then? It's not that "it's not available", because it is. Are there some things in the campaign itself that you - as English-speakers - dislike and because of which you don't/wouldn't contribute and if so - what are they?

(Some people dislike the very idea of crowdfunding and that's ok. I'm asking only those who have nothing against CF and would usually be curious about an interesting CF campaign.)

Samsonet · Mar 28, 2015

Personally, the main reason I wouldn't contribute is because the summary is so vague. It's the same summary I see on all kinds of fantasy books, English or otherwise: there's a fantasy world, it's a big place, there are a lot of interesting people there. If you could tell us a few specifics, either about the characters or the world, that would do a lot.

I checked A Game of Thrones to see how they described it. It's a long description, but it works, in my opinion. It shows the world -- huge, with weird seasons and Something Big about to happen -- and it shows the characters: "a cruel young dragon prince barters his sister to win back his throne", "a determined woman undertakes the most treacherous of journeys", etc.

English-speaking readers and foreign literature

RetsReds

Abderian

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Helix

socially distancing

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

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cornflake

practical experience, FTW

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oceansoul

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practical experience, FTW

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Cath

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Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

mirandashell

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mirandashell

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mirandashell

Abderian

RetsReds

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J. Tanner

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Samsonet

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