Christianity in a Fantasy World?

Status
Not open for further replies.

GeorgeK

ever seeking
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
6,577
Reaction score
740
. In the Deryni series, the church is against the ones who have powers, and the priests come across as oppressive.

Do you mean the Camber series? Camber of Culdi, Saint Camber etc?

There's also a Canticle for Liebowitz if you can get through it.
 

Rachel Udin

Banned
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
1,514
Reaction score
133
Location
USA... sometimes.
Website
www.racheludin.com
Winter of Fire by Sherryl Jordan. (She's a Kiwi, BTW)

All of her books are pretty much Christian-based.

And there is one I can't remember, but where the girl suddenly dies at the end and because of that it got banned. It's between YA and YA fantasy.

Personally, being in the minority, religiously, I see Christianity seep into fantasy a lot, even with the multiple gods, probably because I live in a country where that is the dominant culture frame. (Probably subconscious, but I spot it anyway).

When it is part of the dominant frame and the religion shouldn't be Christian, it kinda sends up red flags for me. There is a point where it's interest and one has questions about the nature of religion itself (Say like Juniper or Wise Child by Monica Furlong, who was Christian, but wrote pretty much a Wiccan book in order to criticize issues/explore issues she had with the Neighborhood Church.) and the point where it's preaching that this is the only way it'll ever turn up.

I have no issues, though, with people exploring questions about religion and their religion through fiction or criticizing it... But once the podium comes out I have issues--not just with religion, but with anything. (and especially if that person doesn't know or want to acknowledge the history of their religion *while* preaching it. Glossing makes me an unhappy camper.)

Example: All Christians do good. And all Pagans are evil type of preaching... *ignore the crusades* I also have problems with the reverse too. All Christians are bad. And All Pagans are good. *Ignore religious intolerance during the dark years of some of the Indian empires and the persecution of Christians*
 
Last edited:

vicky271

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
623
Reaction score
35
My Response

What are your thoughts?

I personally believe its how fantasy is used. There is fantasy in the bible, mainly in Revelations with the dragon and various creatures, but it isn't positive. Therefore, I believe if fantasy is used it should be presumed evil. Idk, that's my belief, it may not be the best :)

That being said, its one thing to write christian book with Christianity themes and another with a focus on God's control, and true meaning of Christianity. Fantasy and ANY characters should not take away from that.
 
Last edited:

Joanna Alonzo

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
177
Reaction score
17
Location
Inside My Head (most of the time)
What are your objectives? Once those are defined, then seek the best way to achieve them.

I'm highly critical by nature - in that I will automatically hold any novel that is theological in nature, to a far higher standard than a story with subtle Christian elements.

Jesus captured the Father's love and value for humans in the story of the Prodigal Son without once using religious words (See Luke 15): "God, Satan, Heaven, Hell" are never mentioned. The cross is never mentioned.

A story can be extremely spiritual without being overtly religious. And which of the 1000 points do you want to make? Is it about spiritual warfare? Blessings and curses? Sowing and reaping? Of do you feel like writing a parallel story like Narnia - where there's a God a savior, a promised second coming ...etc.

For me, I learned a great deal by studying Tolkien. His books can lead to an entire college major. In his essay he compares all fantasy to arising from a need to express the core elements of the greatest story ever told, speaking about the Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus.

Now, when he wrote, he wrote nothing overtly Christian. There are elements in his stories that cause us to ponder if we want too. ....All of the key members of LOTR experienced a form of death and resurrection: Gandalf died battling a Satan figure, the Balrog - and he is later resurrected as Gandalf the white.

Aragorn had to go through the Paths of the Dead before coming as the promised king of promise. Frodo had to take up his cross (the ring) and carry it to the mountain of doom. And he experienced a type of death when poisoned by Shelob.

And one of the most amazing things to me was that there were more deep spiritual conversations on the LOTR chat boards than on many Christian boards.

It deeply changed my views on how to effectively make a point in a novel.

I find these insights very helpful. After finishing the novel I'm working on right now, I'm planning to write a fantasy romance novel that hopefully expresses "the core elements of the greatest story ever told". My main worry was that the Christian elements of the story might be heavy-handed but the reference to Tolkien's work looks like the perfect example for what I want to do. I admit I've never read Tolkien's work, but I guess now is the perfect time to start (since I need to get better acquainted with the genre anyway).

Again, thanks!
 

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
9,316
Reaction score
1,064
Age
72
Location
Out side the beltway...
So far in fantasy, the Catholic Church seems to have gotten a bad rap. . . It would just be nice to read a fantasy novel where Christians were portrayed in a positive light and not oppressing anyone!

I think that overt references to Christianity only work in fantasy if it's an alternate history or parallel world.

Have you ever read Historical fiction dealing with the early the middle ages in Europe? Christianity was very splintered and the Catholic church was a cause for many wars. Hell, the Catholic church had a lot to do with why Italy could not get its shit together...

One of my favorite writers in Historical fiction is Bernard Cornwell and he does not paint the early Catholic church in Britain as very nice. I loved his portrayal and I am a Catholic. So why do I like his portrayal? Because I think even the church must recognize its past sins...

Also think of all the missionaries who have destroyed many native societies with their teaching methods. Such as those who would not allow American Indian children to speak their native languages, or dress according to their culture, all in the name of Christianity. And we could go on with Hawaiian, African, South American, and many other cultures.

So there is precedence for why Christianity is portrayed as evil, or overpowering. IMHO of course...
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
Christianity is the dominant religion in the Western world, and all Western literature — including fantasy — whether written by atheists, Christians, or authors of other faiths has been dramatically and profoundly impacted by the widespread influence of Christianity.

A Christian looking for Christianity in fantasy must ask whether it's the symbolic trappings of the religion that are more important or what that imagery symbolizes.

Once you get past the strictly literal level, Christianity is everywhere in science fiction and fantasy, from The Lord of the Rings to The Matrix.

Also think of all the missionaries who have destroyed many native societies with their teaching methods. Such as those who would not allow American Indian children to speak their native languages, or dress according to their culture, all in the name of Christianity.

I would suggest anyone looking to portray multiple faiths and their intersection and interplay read about religious syncretism and ask themselves whether religious imperialism is truly a part of their core beliefs or not.

If more missionaries had sought to find common ground rather than rely on intolerant methods of colonizing through destruction, things might have ended differently. Indeed, some precious few did, and so the relationship between many Native Americans and Christianity is an extremely complex one, stained with blood and love and hate.
 
Last edited:

StephNS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
57
Reaction score
13
Location
Germany
Justanovel,

I must disagree with you, especially regarding, Lewis, whose Narnia books are not merely about good and evil but a clear allegory of Christianity's deepest principles. Unlike any other book I can recall reading, Lewis builds up an entire world with a history parallel our own, in a spiritual sense. And he does so with a keen eye to detail, including sin, the crucifixion, the destruction of the temple, the resurrection, the final battle, heaven.

In general though, I believe it is difficult to portray Christianity so clearly within a fantasy novel, if you are not earth bound. As has previously been mentioned, there is no reason to assume another world would so closely follow the trajectory of our own, on any level, including the spiritual.
 

rwm4768

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
15,472
Reaction score
767
Location
Missouri
In my epic fantasy, I have a God who is meant as the Judeo-Christian God, but a lot of history has been lost since we migrated to the new world where the story takes place. It's also a bit of a modified religion, and God is a very distant figure.

I actually intend for all my epic fantasy to take place in our universe, where God created human beings (and possibly other sentient races) on many, many planets.
 

emax100

Banned
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
874
Reaction score
80
Aside from Narnia, I don't think I've heard of anyone adding Christianity to a fictional world. Even with Narnia's case, Christ is a lion called Aslan, and allusions to God or Christianity are similarly disguised (admittedly, it wasn't intended as an allegory, at first).

This is something I've been curious about. Is it necessary to veil, rename, alter, and be generally subtle about Christian elements? If The Lord of the Rings had direct references to a Christian religion, would it have ruined the book?

The main concerns which come to mind, is the fear of being sacrilegious (that's pretty scary), the fear of offending a lot of people (less scary, but pretty bad), and financial failure (zOMG!).


Regardless, I think it would be an interesting thing to discuss. Whether it's sacrilegious, whether outcry against it would be grand, and whether it would bomb or not be picked up by any notably publisher. What are your thoughts?

If you avoid the stereotypical Hollywood depictions of Christianity, you could in theory open yourself up to a brand new market of consumers literally numbering in the millions. You could make enough money to pay your mortgage, buy 5 of the most expensive cars, a couple of the most expensive speedboats and make they next 20 payments on all of them. I am just sayin ....
 

Calla Lily

On hiatus
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
39,307
Reaction score
17,490
Location
Non carborundum illegitimi
Website
www.aliceloweecey.net
emax, that's an impressive set of figures. Are they your own personal wish or have you done research that indicates atypical Christian fic is the Next Big Thing?
 

emax100

Banned
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
874
Reaction score
80
emax, that's an impressive set of figures. Are they your own personal wish or have you done research that indicates atypical Christian fic is the Next Big Thing?
Mix of wishful thinking, empirical evidence and intuition mostly. Which i admit is not totally reliable but still, atypical Christian fic in my view would clearly have a larger market than what one would expect.
 

Calla Lily

On hiatus
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
39,307
Reaction score
17,490
Location
Non carborundum illegitimi
Website
www.aliceloweecey.net
An interesting idea. The roadblock might be finding a mainstream pub willing to run with it. The biggest C-fantasy moneymaker I've seen is the Left Behind series, but that toed the evangelical line pretty tightly and was pubbed by a Christian pub as well.
 

Fictional Cowboy

Life is short. Live with purpose.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
248
Reaction score
23
Location
A forgotten time
I've wondered this same thing, but in reverse.

I have an idea for a Christian novel and I wonder how it would be accepted if there was an element of fantasy involved? (Or even in a mainstream mystery novel?)

I'm talking about an object that has a certain effect or "magical" ability. Would a single fantasy element like that work, or be accepted, in Christian fiction (or mainstream) when everything else is realistic?

My heart says no because the purpose of Christian fiction is still being Christ-centered. It's the purpose of Christianity and salvation. I've always believed that Christianity is not to be played with, distorted or redefined for our own purposes. God is love and personal but He's also to be reverenced because He is holy.

I still wonder, though, because I'm a creative dreamer. I've always been very imaginative. And I've always wondered what would happen in real life if someone found an object that had apparent, subtle magical effects. How would that play out realistically? (That's why I wonder if it would be accepted in a mystery novel. A cozy, to be precise.)
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,079
Reaction score
10,776
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
I think the basic problem is that if you're writing about a fantasy world, and things are different there, why would they develop Christianity, and it's history, in exactly the same way as it developed in our world?
'Christ' is a pretty specific word, with Greek roots. 'Judea' is a specific place, filled with Romans and Jews. It's all very anchored in our world.
Which is why so many fantasy books have religions similar to Christianity, but not called Christianity. It's not fear of repercussions, it's world-building.

I'm thinking that if the author is operating from the premise that Christianity is the One True Religion, revealed to humans by the God of Everything, and the exact manner of its presentation is vitally important in making it so (not all Christians believe this by a long shot, but I've encountered many who do), then any parallel world or universe would *have* to have a version of it that is very similar to what exists in our world.

I don't subscribe to this premise, and I personally find it irritating when real-world religions (particularly ones that are widely held to be True today) exist in fantasy worlds that are not supposed to be connected to ours (to be fair to Narnia, it was connected to our world). But I'm probably not the kind of reader most Christian fantasy writers have in mind ;)

And when you think about it, even secondary world fantasy borrows things from our world. The characters may not be speaking English, but we've translated it, and no matter how carefully we pick our manuscripts over for anachronistic words and concepts that are rooted in particular events, people, and places in Earth's history, some slip though. So it's possible to assume that in a parallel universe where the God of All gave people a localized version of Christianity, that some of those particular words and concepts would also be translated for the reader in our universe.

I think the thing is to know your intended audience. Whenever you write about a real-world belief that is as widespread and diverse as Christianity, you are going to alienate and offend many readers, and you will commit what some consider to be sacrilege. But you may engage and entertain a lot of people too, and maybe some will find your work enlightening. Your own conscience has to guide you here.
 
Last edited:

Lavern08

Sit Down, and Shut Up!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
21,790
Reaction score
7,436
Location
7th Heaven

... I've always believed that Christianity is not to be played with, distorted or redefined for our own purposes. God is love and personal but He's also to be reverenced because He is Holy.

I agree

Plus, there are a number of scriptures that forbid Christians from participating in sorcery, fortune-telling, mediums and magic...(i.e. Acts 8:9-13 and Acts 19:17-19) :Shrug:
 

Literateparakeet

Nerdy Budgie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
1,386
Reaction score
226
Location
Seattle
Website
lesliesillusions.blogspot.com
Fictional Cowboy,

I think the answer to your question will vary for different Christians. For example, many people love Chronicles of Narnia, by C.S. Lewis. That is clearly fantasy. I've never heard of any Christians being offended by Chronicles of Narnia, but perhaps I don't get out enough. :)

My favorite C.S. Lewis book is Til We Have Faces. I also see Christian messages in that book, but I have heard that some Christians didn't like it because it is a retelling of Cupid and Psyche.

Many people (including me) see a Christian theme in Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. All of these books are fantasy or sic-fi and involve magic or "the force".

For me, if your intent is to glorify God, and Christ and then I don't see a problem with it.
 

Fictional Cowboy

Life is short. Live with purpose.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
248
Reaction score
23
Location
A forgotten time
Fictional Cowboy,

I think the answer to your question will vary for different Christians. For example, many people love Chronicles of Narnia, by C.S. Lewis. That is clearly fantasy. I've never heard of any Christians being offended by Chronicles of Narnia, but perhaps I don't get out enough. :)

My favorite C.S. Lewis book is Til We Have Faces. I also see Christian messages in that book, but I have heard that some Christians didn't like it because it is a retelling of Cupid and Psyche.

Many people (including me) see a Christian theme in Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. All of these books are fantasy or sic-fi and involve magic or "the force".

For me, if your intent is to glorify God, and Christ and then I don't see a problem with it.

That will always be my intent. I'd rather not publish than not bring Him glory with my work.

I know this subject has been debated for a very long time :deadhorse so, really, the answer comes down to this: Put the matter to prayer and take the road where peace leads you. If you choose wrongly, God is a big enough God to get hold of you and steer you back on track.
 

ULTRAGOTHA

Merovingian Superhero
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,467
Reaction score
313
I think the answer to your question will vary for different Christians. For example, many people love Chronicles of Narnia, by C.S. Lewis. That is clearly fantasy. I've never heard of any Christians being offended by Chronicles of Narnia, but perhaps I don't get out enough. :)

Christianity is such a very wide tent that just about anything will please some Christian somewhere; and just about anything will offend some Christian somewhere.

There are certainly some Christians out there who dislike the magic in the Narnia books.

There are sincere, believing Christians who write books that reflect their religion that have fantastical elements and those who feel it's wrong to write about fantasy.

It comes down to one's individual beliefs and also, to some extent, the beliefs of the people you're aiming your book at.


Fictional Cowboy:
I'm talking about an object that has a certain effect or "magical" ability. Would a single fantasy element like that work, or be accepted, in Christian fiction (or mainstream) when everything else is realistic?

Yes, it would work. See Tolkien, Lewis, Rowlings, L'Engle and others. But if it's something you're not comfortable writing, it might not work for you.
 

meangene01

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
59
Reaction score
1
If you look at the past 5 years (maybe more) of movie releases you will see that the planet is hungry for anything supernatural. I remember one of the first Christian novels I read was Frank Peretti's "This Present Darkness" and it was so good. Interweave something supernatural and you will have a book that can sell in Christian and Non-Christian markets.
 

LessonsToLiveBy

Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Christianity is such a very wide tent that just about anything will please some Christian somewhere; and just about anything will offend some Christian somewhere.

+1 to this. I write Christian speculative (basically, sci-fi with a Christian element) and I get this reaction from some readers. What is fascinating, though, is that you can't always predict how the readers will line up -- it doesn't always match expectations. In some cases I get the reaction I might think (i.e. Evangelicals not accepting something that a more 'liberal' Protestant might) but in other cases I am (pleasantly) surprised, and I learn a lot, from other reactions. My stories have a Christian character but is not a simple retelling of the New Testament, and yet I've had very interesting, supportive letters from the Vatican, Jews, Mormons, Evangelicals, etc.

I think the story will overwhelm the preexisting notions, except for those who just won't open up the book. Consider the wide readership of "The Shack."
 

Lavern08

Sit Down, and Shut Up!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
21,790
Reaction score
7,436
Location
7th Heaven
Consider the wide readership of "The Shack."

Ahhh, I'm glad you mentioned this ^

I'm pretty "don't mess with the fundamentals" when it comes to Christianity, but I thoroughly enjoyed The Shack. ;)
 

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
5,029
Location
We couldn't possibly do that. Who'd clear up the m
Website
francisknightbooks.co.uk
Er Lord of The Rings was written to have strong Christian themes

That surprised me, but then being brought up non - Christian I suspect I saw different themes

Anyway, you don't get much more fantasy than that.

The thing is -- are you writing it as a Christian Book or a fantasy with Christian themes? It'll make a difference

Different stories, audiences, markets.

ETA I'll happily read a book with Christian themes (may not notice them though...) but not one that tries to evangelise me
 
Last edited:

henmatth

New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
71
Reaction score
2
Sacrilegious movies I've seen "Angels and Demons" and the "Vinci Code" both starring Tom Hanks.
The film was released very soon in other countries but not mine. The Church had to study and review it as it was blasphemous. But it was finally released under strict parental guidance.
Films like these are conceptualized by writers to perk the interest of moviegoers. For some, they may take it constructively. Others view it with critic.
Stories like these really depend on the viewers.
For Narnia, I guess that was a beautiful story. In fact, I wished I was one of the stars.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.