Robin Thicke owes millions for plagiarism Marvin Gaye

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Chris P

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I find this to be ridiculous too. The songs sound nothing alike. This is literally why I have not done any composing -- I'm afraid what I make will be too similar to stuff that already exists without intending to. While accidental plagarism is hard to do with writing, it seems very easy to do with music.

This happened with The Rolling Stones' "Anybody seen my baby?" Keith Richards was playing the demo to his daughters, and at exactly the right time they started singing KD Lang's "Constant Craving." Keith said Mick Jagger, who wrote "Anybody seen my baby?" didn't intend to plagiarize, he just wants to sing whatever he heard in the club the night before. They credited Lang for the song.
 

KTC

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Robin Thicke's lyrics being a vile, misogynistic pile of crap have no bearing on whether the music was copied.

That is correct. I, for one, wasn't putting the two things together. The lyrics were stupendously vile and offensive. And they were on top of Marvin Gaye music.
 

Norman D Gutter

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And years and years ago Chuck Berry successfully sued The Beach Boys, proving that "Surfing USA" was a rip off of one of his songs. Can't remember which one right now.
 

Jamesaritchie

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This case is very different in one way. Robin Thicke admitted that he stole the song in a drug induced stupor. He never denied his guilt.
 

Jamesaritchie

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And years and years ago Chuck Berry successfully sued The Beach Boys, proving that "Surfing USA" was a rip off of one of his songs. Can't remember which one right now.

Berry didn't sue, he threatened to sue, and the Beach Boys said they did the song as a tribute to him, and did use Sweet Sixteen to do it, so he could have most of the royalties, and be listed as composer.

Berry was in jail at the time, or they would have asked for permission.
 

Xelebes

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I just read somewhere that there are many other songs Madonna ripped from. Ironically, Madonna fans get livid when other artists rip Madonna's melodies.

Did Gaga ever get any flack for her obvious "Alejandro" rip-off from Ace of Base's "Don't Turn Around?" Or Fergie's copycat melody of "Supersonic?" So much modern music gets under my skin. No originality, just one big money-making machine.

Zep in polka? Now that I would've liked to hear!

ps. ABC Song, Bah Bah Black Sheep, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star... did I miss any? Was this before copyright days?

It's not so much that they were before copyright days, but that copyright would not have come into effect due to the time between the writer's death and when the melodies were used. For example, Mozart's 12 Variations on Twinkle Twinkle is at the very least 150 years past the lapsing of the copyright.
 

Twick

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Thieving and taking drugs? What a guy. Was he always this honest, I wonder?

Don't forget cheating on his wife, and then stalking her when she got fed up and left him.

I haven't played the songs to compare them, but I must admit I don't think this could have happened to a nicer guy (sarcasm intended).
 

Lunatique

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If the very similar percussion instruments, rhythm, and staccato bassline is all there is to the song, then I could see how the court would be right, but a song is more than just that--it's also chord progression, harmonic structure, melodic contour, lyrics, singing style, mixing/mastering, etc. So if we're considering all the elements that makes up a finished recording, I have to say I think the court made the wrong decision.

If the percussion, rhythm, and style of bassline was all it took to determine if a lawsuit is lost or won, then all the four-chord rock/blues/pops songs with drums, guitar, bass, keyboard, and playing the same chord progressions with the same simple drum beat with bass notes doubling the kick drum would be having a copyright infringement Armageddon right now. Same with all the four-on-the-floor club tracks, reggae, minimal techno, and god knows what else out there.

On a related note, anyone who's actually a competent composer will know how easy it is to write very similar music as existing music even if you've never heard the existing versions. The way music theory works (whether you have learned it or are composing by ear only), follows a very distinct set of natural inclinations dictated by how we process sound frequencies and what is aesthetically satisfying to our brain (such as preferring harmonic sounds over dissonant sounds). If you hum an original melody in front of a large audience and don't finish the last few notes and then asked the audience to finish it for you, you'll hear how the audience will naturally end the melodic contour according to our natural inclinations, and most of them will hum the same ending notes, even though they've never heard the melody or discussed it among themselves. That is how our brain works--we have biological inclinations for specific melodic progressions using specific intervals on specific beats. Add to that there are only so many possible notes on a typical scale, and have to fit in the context of the harmony of the chord structure, you're not left with many choices. To make it worse, the longer civilization has been around, the more of those possibilities are used up, especially with the explosion of the information age and how computer technology has leveled the playing field, where even enthusiastic high schoolers can put together quality music productions in their bedrooms using laptops and tablets. That is why is so easy to find songs that sound extremely similar even if the composers didn't know each other or have heard each others' work.

Anyway, I think this kind of litigation sets a dangerous precedent, and it reeks of a decision made by people who have no understanding of how music actually works. It's just as bad as the clueless youtube/amazon comments from customers who rant about how some book or movie "ripped off" another, when the similarities are only superficial (such as premise), while the entire thematic focus is completely different, and targeting a totally different readership/audience. By that logic, every single epic fantasy with elves and dwarves and dragons are total ripoffs of Tolkien, and every single story that involves humanoid robots with self-awareness is ripping off Asimov, regardless of the actual thematic exploration and plot and characters.

I remember when The Hunger Game first came out, some people foamed at the mouth calling Suzanne Collins all kind of names and claimed she ripped off Battle Royale (Japanese movie series). The two couldn't possibly be more different in the actual thematic focus and characters, with only the most basic premise being similar, yet the mob just wouldn't let up.

I do want to add though, that I think in terms of intent, the Robin Thicke camp certainly did intent to lift the percussion/rhythm/staccato bassline from the original--that much is obvious. So maybe the judgment was more about the intent, and the fact that the melody and the lyrics are not at all similar didn't matter as much.
 

benbradley

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Here's a (IMHO) good article:
Great, Now “Blurred Lines” Has Ruined the Entire Music Industry
http://www.laweekly.com/music/great-now-blurred-lines-has-ruined-the-entire-music-industry-5427407
The Madonna and Kid Rock examples are sampling, which is distinct. Under Pressure/Ice Ice Baby is a better example, and that clearly is copying.
I always thought that bassline was sampled from the earlier song, and I never noticed that extra note that was claimed to make it different.
This case is very different in one way. Robin Thicke admitted that he stole the song in a drug induced stupor. He never denied his guilt.
Admitting guilt doesn't automatically mean he did the crime, but perhaps that influenced the jury.
 

benbradley

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onesecondglance

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I always thought that bassline was sampled from the earlier song, and I never noticed that extra note that was claimed to make it different.

Been a while since I looked at it, but iirc the bassline was a re-record (not a sample) with the extra note explicitly to try and avoid a claim.

Admitting guilt doesn't automatically mean he did the crime, but perhaps that influenced the jury.

Pretty sure Thicke also admitted Pharrell did all the writing, so Thicke being... thick has little bearing on the copyright matter.
 

Vito

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I've never heard of Robin Thicke -- not even sure if it's a female or a male, because of the unisex name.

But this thread makes me think about "Tighten Up Your Wig", by Steppenwolf. It's a ripoff of "Messin' With the Kid", a classic blues song by Junior Wells, and it includes these lyrics: "Just before we go, I'd like to mention Junior Wells/We stole his thing from him, and he from someone else".

Right on!
 

Perks

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I remember when The Hunger Game first came out, some people foamed at the mouth calling Suzanne Collins all kind of names and claimed she ripped off Battle Royale (Japanese movie series).

Funny that this came up. I thought you might be headed in the direction of pointing out that the mockingjay call in the movie is exactly the same as the opening four notes of Henry Mancini's piece for Romeo and Juliet.

Mockingjay - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIago6ylKpc

Romeo & Juliet - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaA2WiyqO1E
 

nighttimer

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The first time I ever heard blurred lines, my first reaction was that Thicke sickened me. He's a fucking pig. My second reaction was HE STOLE FROM MARVIN GAYE, the fucking pig.

It's insane how close they are. I actually later heard them played on top of each other. Once you do that, you'll see the crime.

People who like "Blurred Lines" will never own up to the obvious: it's not inspired by "Got to Give It Up," but a blatant rip-off of it.

What Thicke and Williams (you still "Happy," bro?) are really guilty of is laziness. They could have tried sampling "Got to Give It Up" the way rappers have done for years, but that would mean cutting a check to the Gaye estate and risking they might say "no." Yeah, better to just steal it now and explain it later.

Oh, and don't forget this: Thicke and Williams sued the Gaye family first.

The Hollywood Reporter broke the news late Thursday: Thicke, along with Pharrell Williams and T.I., filed a lawsuit against Gaye's family and Bridgeport Music. In the case, the trio of music makers say they have "the utmost respect for and admiration of Marvin Gaye, Funkadelic and their musical legacies," but must "reluctantly file this action in the face of multiple adverse claims from alleged successors in interest to those artists."

Gaye's family and Funkadelic (the relevant compositions of whom are owned by Bridgeport), have insisted that "Blurred Lines" is too similar to their original songs. Here's a bit of the tick-tock, courtesy of the Hollywood Reporter:

The suit claims the Gaye family is alleging that "Blurred Lines" and Gaye's "Got to Give It Up" "feel" or "sound" the same, and that the "Gaye defendants are claiming ownership of an entire genre, as opposed to a specific work."

As for Funkadelic, there's said to be claimed similarity between Thicke's hit and Funakedlic's "Sexy Ways."

"But there are no similarities between plaintiffs' composition and those the claimants allege they own, other than commonplace musical elements," states the lawsuit. "Plaintiffs created a hit and did it without copying anyone else's composition
It's a little late to cry about losing a lawsuit when you were the first one to file one. The best defense isn't always a good offense.

Fact is, in a court of law he was proven to have stolen something. I don't care about anything else. He got what he deserved.

Pretty much this. "Blurred Lines" was already one of the most obnoxious Number One songs ever and the evil way it was spawned only makes it more so.

So yeah, I couldn't be happier Thicke gets smacked in his thick wallet because a jury decided he got to give it up.

Makes him wanna holler, throw up both his hands the way they do his life. :gaah
 

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From reading that article, it looks like Pharrell/Thicke made at least $15M on the song and are only giving up $7M....that doesn't seem right...they should have to give up everything they made and all future royalties.
 

benbradley

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From reading that article, it looks like Pharrell/Thicke made at least $15M on the song and are only giving up $7M....that doesn't seem right...they should have to give up everything they made and all future royalties.
Well, the $7 million figure is the opinion of the judge/jury (I'm too lazy to look up which). Your opinion differs.

My opinion (once again) is that if Blurred Lines infringes, then so does this song on some other 1960s songs from a band that I can't recall the name of offhand...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n03a7cLf0M
 

onesecondglance

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From reading that article, it looks like Pharrell/Thicke made at least $15M on the song and are only giving up $7M....that doesn't seem right...they should have to give up everything they made and all future royalties.


Music = 50%
Lyrics = 50%

There is no claim that the lyrics were infringed.

Yes, that's an arbitrary split, and no, it doesn't reflect the reality of how pop songwriting tends to work, but it's the convention.
 
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