I'm thinking of giving up on Standard Model Publishing

Up to you. Though even if it isn't about the money, it should be about the quality. All I see from self-publishing is extremely poor quality that continues to get worse, not better, because lack of gatekeepers rally does mean lack of quality.

But they're your books, and you can do whatever you wish with them.

I'm still in process of my first novel, so I can't say anything about firsthand experience, but I have heard that many good books go unaccepted and therefore unpublished. I think it would be cool maybe to have some great, famous authors with various skillsets (business, communications, etc.) band together and make their own publishing shop. I think that known authors would have credibility and may accept what the traditional model currently does not. Sorry to hear your negative experiences.

Jamesaritchie said:

Up to you. Though even if it isn't about the money, it should be about the quality. All I see from self-publishing is extremely poor quality that continues to get worse, not better, because lack of gatekeepers rally does mean lack of quality.

But they're your books, and you can do whatever you wish with them.

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Not necessarily. There'll always be those who rush to publish, many times to their chagrin. But my own ebook reading experience is already showing that margin narrowing. And Diana has indicated she plans to take the time to do it right.

Diana, self-publishing for a smaller or niche market actually makes good sense when time and effort are taken to do so professionally as you obviously already know, and I wish you great success.

Ari, contrarian

I would love to hear about experiences from someone who has done trade-pub and self-pub.

Jamesaritchie said:

Up to you. Though even if it isn't about the money, it should be about the quality. All I see from self-publishing is extremely poor quality that continues to get worse, not better, because lack of gatekeepers rally does mean lack of quality.

But they're your books, and you can do whatever you wish with them.

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That's a bit of a generalization. Yes, I've read some clunker self-published titles by people who either had no idea what they were doing or figured they didn't need to give their all because it's just self-publishing. I've also read some pretty good stuff. The ones who take themselves and their work seriously - who take the time to beta-read and edit and polish - can put out very professional books. Tarring them with the same brush as the fly-by-night "write a best-seller in five minutes and rake in cash from suckers" or "its sew EZ - look ma im publyshed!!1one!" authors is unfair. (It's usually pretty easy to tell who's who from the samples.)

Angry Guy said:

I would love to hear about experiences from someone who has done trade-pub and self-pub.

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Read Chuck Wendig's blog. Considering it for a story of mine. At least one editor wanted to buy it, but it fell in a "who the hell do we market it to and how?" blackhole.

Diana, whatever you decide, I wish you all the best success!

Diana Hignutt said:

I'm a minor cult-classic-ish sort of writer, I know I'm never going to sell a million books

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There are a lot of authors who would have seemed to be so and yet their books, surprisingly, went on to become huge sellers. So I wouldn't say you are niche just yet. Follow the course you believe is the best. You seem like a go-getter so self-pub'ing may prove lucrative, etc. Just don't close off other options: traditional pub'ing. You needn't. G'luck.

ps Maybe get feedback on your query if it isn't getting enough responses.

I've considered this too. My successes have been with smaller publishers and even with self-pubbing short stories. My success with that, and failures too (I didn't keep up with the short stories despite them selling well out of the gate), have all been completely within my control. That's refreshing.

The cons, of course, are that for some of my work, I feel they best "fit" with a traditionally published model. Typical YA fantasy and sci fi. Maybe I'm overconfident, but I feel like my work would do really well if given a shot by a larger publishing house.

Of course, if no one gives them a chance, they go on being unknown. But once I make the self-pub decision, not only is the large pub door closed, their success is in my hands, and I want to do it right. But right now, I don't have the resources to do it right by myself. So they languish and I keep knocking on agent doors.

If the years go on and I build up my "unpublished backlist," and I don't get an agent, that's when I'll explode onto the self-pub scene with several completed (and edited to perfection) series and books. But self-pubbing shouldn't be done lightly.

I definitely feel your frustration, though, and it's a shame to see not only your own work, but good work by writing partners, or stories you read as part of contests and such, that go ignored.

Brightdreamer said:

That's a bit of a generalization. Yes, I've read some clunker self-published titles by people who either had no idea what they were doing or figured they didn't need to give their all because it's just self-publishing. I've also read some pretty good stuff.

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Indeed. I've read stuff that was better-edited than trade published books lately. Some of the trade published books I've read lately are very poorly edited (typos, lots of telling, ridiculous number of adverbs, et cetera).

Good, knowledgeable, hard-working writers are self-publishing lately, because they want total control over their work. Self-publishing is no longer just the terrain of impatient not-ready-to-be-published newbies trying to storm past the gatekeepers. (Though, yeah, there's still a bunch of those types self-publishing their work. To dismiss them, all one needs to do is set the search engines right; such writers will rarely get high up in the rankings.)

Brightdreamer said:

That's a bit of a generalization. Yes, I've read some clunker self-published titles by people who either had no idea what they were doing or figured they didn't need to give their all because it's just self-publishing. I've also read some pretty good stuff.

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Agreed. I've comes across plenty of duds, but I also discovered some of Courtney Milan's self-published romances this year, and they're wonderfully written. So there are exceptions to the "lack of gatekeepers equals lack of quality" statement.

Brutal Mustang said:

Indeed. I've read stuff that was better-edited than trade published books lately. Some of the trade published books I've read lately are very poorly edited (typos, lots of telling, ridiculous number of adverbs, et cetera).

Good, knowledgeable, hard-working writers are self-publishing lately, because they want total control over their work. Self-publishing is no longer just the terrain of impatient not-ready-to-be-published newbies trying to storm past the gatekeepers. (Though, yeah, there's still a bunch of those types self-publishing their work. To dismiss them, all one needs to do is set the search engines right; such writers will rarely get high up in the rankings.)

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I'm glad the "sense of the room" is countering the notion that all self-published books are of lesser quality than trade published books. I know we have many self-published authors here at AW who labor to produce high quality work. I also have read trade published books that surprised me with the number and kind of errors that slipped through.

So. Diana! I wish you all the very best. Especially if you already have a loyal and hungry readership waiting for the next parts of the story, this sounds like a good way to go. Well, of course, given the resources to do it right, which it sounds like you have.

It's a difficult time to be a writer. The bottom line has always been sales, but as traditional publishing has had increasing financial concerns, and bookstores are becoming an endangered species, it's becoming far worse.

The question most editors are now facing is not "Is this book any good?" It's "Will this book sell?" In some sense, that's always been the case but now in the pursuit of the cash cow of bestsellerdom, the question is becoming not simply whether people will buy the books but whether the book has the potential to be a huge hit. If an editor (or actually, the publisher) doesn't see that potential, they're not going to buy the book no matter how well it's written or even how much they like it.

I think the ones who have been hit hardest by this, surprisingly are not new authors. Editors will still take a chance on a new voice, if they see commercial potential. It's the mid list authors – the ones who have had their chance but have shown they can only sell 10,000 copies or so. I know a lot of writers in the SF/F field with name recognition, several of them have won nebula awards, and some who are universally respected by their peers.

Even they are having a hard time selling their manuscripts.

But the alternative of self-publishing has a built in problem for those writers without great name recognition. There are so many self-pubbed books out there that sifting through the never ending supply to find worthwhile books is an almost impossible task.

Traditional publishing at least gives one a platform, and a chance to get your book out there where people can find it. And, if it's a major publisher, it also comes with at least the assumption that it's not going to be a stinker.

Now, it's true that you can provide your own platform if you're good at social media and self-promotion. But honestly, that's not a skill that everyone has, much like writing is not a skill that anyone can pick up overnight. Some people have blogs that thousands of people visit – others, who try just as hard end up with no more than 20 or 30.

I wish I had an answer. But it's possible there is no good answer – at least not for the majority of writers.

I'm inclined to think that authors who already have some experience with trade publishing will be less inclined to fall down that "poor quality because of no gatekeeping" rathole. They've already proven they can write stuff that passes muster, and they know how to work with editors and so on. And they know the importance of things like editing, cover design, promoting one's books and so on.

Getting out of print books out there in the world for people who might still enjoy them seems like a great reason to self publish. And those fans will likely be receptive to future books published that way. I can think of a couple of authors (at least) who wrote a great first book, or started a series, then dropped it for various reasons (like a publisher going under, or contract issues or whatever, or who the heck knows why), and I would love to see the book reissued as an e-book and for the sequels to finally be written or published.

One reason I don't read self published books as a rule is I just don't find them or hear of them. And of course, there's no way of knowing if an author I've never heard of who did it him or herself has done a professional job, or simply tossed their unedited NaNoWriMo draft up on amazon.

Diana, informed self-publishing is no longer anything to draw shame in the market. Sure, there is self-published crap out there, but it's balanced by some great writing.

I'm planning on going hybrid, myself, both a mix of commercially published and self-published works. I would have done the latter earlier but my agent and beta readers convinced me to revise and expand the project. We're aiming for the top performers in the Big Five fantasy imprints. If that washes out I'm self-publishing the series.

Whatever process you choose, your book is going to be great. Now go out there and try whatever.

I chose self-pub cause I design my own covers.

Alas, I have no smart advice--just best wishes to you, Diana.

My experience self-publishing is that it's not less work than what my trade-pursuing friends do, it's different work. It's a lot of effort and a lot of frustration, but it's different effort and different frustration. If you find you respond better to the work/frustration of the SP process than with the trade publishing process, then it very well might be a better fit for you personally as an author.

If you do want sales, genre and frequency matter more than in trade publishing. Anecdotally, most self-publishers I see being extremely financially successful do so by having incredible skill as pulp writers, releasing a book every month or two in a popular genre. I have great respect for that ability to write fast to a market -- it's not an ability I've ever been particularly successful in myself, and I wish I could be. My self-publishing pursuit by necessity follows a different path, and I have so far been reasonably successful but not ridiculously so (you can check out my SP thread for more details if you're interested).

I don't regret self-publishing at all. I enjoy it. It works for my brain, and it allows me to do the things with my books that I want to do. But I'm not going to sit here and tell you it's an easy gold rush or anything like that (except for, like in trade publishing, the few people who get lucky). It's running a small business, is what it is, with everything that comes with that.

Diana Hignutt said:

I know I wouldn't get reviewed. But I'm not in this for reviews.

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I get reviewed. Not as extensively as I would in trade publishing, but reasonably widely.

I just want to write books and have some people read them. If I make a little money that's fine.

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It sounds to me like your goals are realistic, and that you might enjoy the process of SPing more than you enjoy the process of trade publishing.

Depending how the release of the trilogy goes, I might just give up on ever submitting anything again. I guess we'll see.

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That'll be a good way of dipping your toe in, seeing what you think, whether SP really is a good fit for you. Good luck!

Jamesaritchie said:

Up to you. Though even if it isn't about the money, it should be about the quality. All I see from self-publishing is extremely poor quality that continues to get worse, not better, because lack of gatekeepers rally does mean lack of quality.

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It's fallacious to say that "majority of SPers release poor-quality books" implies "Diana will release poor-quality books in her self-publishing endeavor." Even if you believe the former, it simply does not, logically, imply the latter.

And for some more counterexamples, two of my most recent favorite books were self-published: The Perilous Life of Jade Yeo and Let Me Get This Off My Chest. The former is by a respected Campbell-nominated SFF writer and the latter was well-reviewed in Library Journal. Oh, and at least five of the reviewers who've read my books -- none of whom knew me before I sent an ARC along -- have already stated their intention to nominate me for the Campbell this coming year. Some people will believe that self-publishing implies poor quality until the cows come home, but more and more people see it as just another option to get books to readers.

Roxxsmom said:

I'm inclined to think that authors who already have some experience with trade publishing will be less inclined to fall down that "poor quality because of no gatekeeping" rathole. They've already proven they can write stuff that passes muster, and they know how to work with editors and so on. And they know the importance of things like editing, cover design, promoting one's books and so on.

Getting out of print books out there in the world for people who might still enjoy them seems like a great reason to self publish. And those fans will likely be receptive to future books published that way. I can think of a couple of authors (at least) who wrote a great first book, or started a series, then dropped it for various reasons (like a publisher going under, or contract issues or whatever, or who the heck knows why), and I would love to see the book reissued as an e-book and for the sequels to finally be written or published.

One reason I don't read self published books as a rule is I just don't find them or hear of them. And of course, there's no way of knowing if an author I've never heard of who did it him or herself has done a professional job, or simply tossed their unedited NaNoWriMo draft up on amazon.

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I knew of a guy who did just that, putting up his unedited Nano novel up. He fully acknowledged that it was shoddy and that the reason he put it up like that was because he was impatient. And then he got mad at people for saying it was terrible.

chompers said:

I knew of a guy who did just that, putting up his unedited Nano novel up. He fully acknowledged that it was shoddy and that the reason he put it up like that was because he was impatient. And then he got mad at people for saying it was terrible.

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I don't understand people with that attitude at all. I see the same thing with artists. It's crazy!

It of course should be kept in mind not everyone who self-publishes does that. Don't know that guys situation, but I put mine through seven or so different passes before publishing it anywhere.

I've done both now, and honestly, if you can write a publishable book for trade, if you hire a decent editor, you can almost certainly write a publishable book for self-pub. I'd go for it--third book in a trilogy dropped by a publisher is a great case for self-pub, and you've got nothing much to lose.