Clean app -- Handy tool or censorship?

Mr Flibble · Mar 26, 2015

So, someone has made a Clean Ap -- replacing "naughty" words with more "acceptable" ones.

And some authors are very not happy (me included as it happens)

Oh my god becomes oh my goodness etc. Bitch becomes witch (sorry pagans)

In a small ray of unintentional hilarity, penis becomes groin, and vagina, anus, buttocks’ and clitoris all become bottom (???)

Which leads us to this "translation":

“‘Where shall I [freak] you, Victoria? Where do you want my [groin]?’ ‘I want it in … my [bottom].’”

Rape it seems is fine though? :Shrug:

Anyway, thoughts anyone? I'm with Joanna Harris, though perhaps for slightly different reasons. I agree that sending a message that body parts are "bad" is very unhealthy.

Besides if they took all my naughty words away, I'd only have a blank page left.

And so that I don't have to post it later, Stephen Fry on the Joys of Swearing (Note: includes swearwords)

Perks · Mar 26, 2015

I think it's an affront, but it's one of those annoyances that I, personally, can't be bothered to lather up over. (Not that I think people shouldn't. I can totally see where this bullshit could raise an army.)

I like what John Scalzi said about it on Twitter -

Asked for my thoughts on Clean Reader. They are: you bought the book, do what you want, but if you use the app, it's not the book I wrote.

Mr Flibble · Mar 26, 2015

Yeah I'm not lathered (cross but eyerolling mostly) but I can see why people might be.

NRoach · Mar 26, 2015

Meh, frankly.
If someone wants to use this, let them. They're almost certainly not my target audience, though, so I can't imagine them actually picking up anything I've written in the first place.

Sam Argent · Mar 26, 2015

Personally as far as my work, I don't care too much what people do with it after buying, but in general, this sounds stupid to me. I curse like a sailor, so if you're using this on one of my books, a lot of context is gonna be lost. Curse words or not, I still only choose the right ones. I do think this needs to be handled cautiously because if ebooks become the norm in schools, censoring mandatory reading(or mention of evolution in Biology) is a potential problem if you live in conservative areas.

Marlys · Mar 26, 2015

Maybe the threads can be merged?

Mr Flibble · Mar 26, 2015

Marlys said:
Maybe the threads can be merged?

If you do that I can't post any more....

Kylabelle · Mar 26, 2015

We can leave this one here; I think this issue has enough facets to have two threads about it.

Kylabelle · Mar 26, 2015

Here's Chuck Wendig's roundup of clean reader stuff. He posts links to various updates and articles and stuff.

By the way: A reason to have certain threads such as this one duplicated here and in P&CE is that there are quite a few members who don't frequent P&CE for various reasons to do with blood pressure etc. (just kidding about the bp). So with this sort of situation it's good to give the discussion a non-political venue, since it affects many of us pretty directly in our writer places.

Thanks for starting it.

Calla Lily · Mar 26, 2015

They bought my first 3 books, 'sanitized' them, and are reselling the 'clean' versions They are thieves and pirates. I sicced my publishr's lawyers on them.

HULKSMASH

Perks · Mar 26, 2015

Oh wait - they can resell the "clean" version? I did not realize that. I thought it was a personal app for ebooks you purchased for your own collection.

That seems illegal all over the place. That I seriously have a problem with.

Perks · Mar 26, 2015

How do you find out if your books are available through Clean Reader?

Filigree · Mar 26, 2015

Go, Calla! They are thieves hiding behind the mask of propriety.

I treat 'sanitized' versions of books with the same respect as I did the old Reader's Digest versions of classic novels: not much. Even less, after I read the unexpurgated versions in college, and saw huge differences in the stories. In the case of the RD versions, some of the hardback books can be taken apart to make interesting book art and sculptures. No such utility for a bowdlerized e-book.

Marian Perera · Mar 26, 2015

Mr Flibble said:
In a small ray of unintentional hilarity, penis becomes groin, and vagina, anus, buttocks’ and clitoris all become bottom (???)

So FGM could be described as a bottomectomy. Now I've seen it all.

I wouldn't care if someone blanked out the few swear words I use, but reselling "clean" versions of my books would make me see red.

Perks · Mar 26, 2015

Okay, so I downloaded the app, just to see what it was. Both of my books are available through Clean Reader's store, but as it appears, the sale would be a legitimate sale and the download would be the original text. Only the display of it, through Clean Reader app, masks the "offensive" words.

I think it's absurd and thoroughly tiny-minded, but if the sales are legitimately routed and I'm getting paid, I'll just go back to rolling my eyes. I'm going to keep looking at this to make sure I'm right in my analysis, though.

Filigree · Mar 26, 2015

If they are actually selling the original version, only masked, that's a little better. Still pathetic, though.

Calla Lily · Mar 26, 2015

It ticks me off that they are censoring my books, but if my info from last night is wrong and they're legit resellers, I'll dial back my HULKSMASH.

A co-worker has an after-market service that 'sanitiEs' movies like this so he and his wife can watch movies with their 8yo around.

I refrained from comment.

Perks · Mar 26, 2015

Calla Lily said:
A co-worker has an after-market service that 'sanitiEs' movies like this so he and his wife can watch movies with their 8yo around.

I refrained from comment.

Good grief. Perhaps the better course of action would be to cut the cord and let the grownups enjoy grownup stuff and the kid enjoy kid stuff and then meet in the middle-that-ramps-up-to-adulthood together?

ElaineA · Mar 26, 2015

Edited in response to Perks' post below
~~My understanding, from CleanReader's response to Joanne Harris is exactly as Perks experienced. They sell the original text and the app cleans it in "view." There are also levels of cleaning, I guess.~~ They are not truthful, it seems...or at least not fully transparent.

I want to be exercised about this. In principle I don't like the idea here, or the slippery slope possibilities, but I thought Mary Robinette Kowal's response on Wendig's post was pretty spot on. We get a lot of content delivered daily that isn't *quite* the way the art was intended to be seen. ~~CleanReader doesn't diminish the art so much as diminish the censorer's experience of the art. Their loss.~~ Also not true if they're involved with pirating.

I agree though, pathetic is the right word. And the original given reason--so their young daughter could read advanced works? Please! Give her Tolstoy. No swear words there and plenty of pages to wade through. (I stand by this.)

Perks · Mar 26, 2015

Nope, guys, get your books off of that site. Just talked to Chuck Wendig and it is entirely possible that they are selling illegal downloads.

Apparently, they will remove the books upon request, without complaint.

Brightdreamer · Mar 26, 2015

I've never understood why some people want to change something, sometimes beyond recognition, in order to experience it.

It's like ordering a hot fudge sundae, but without the hot fudge, whipped cream, cherry, or ice cream. You're left with some chopped nuts in a bowl. If you're allergic to dairy, or have ethical issues with the maraschino cherry industry, or have a problem with fudge, there are plenty of dessert options without any of those things. So why insist on the sundae, when all you'll end up with, after your special demands, is a bunch of nuts?

Ari Meermans · Mar 26, 2015

Anyone with eyeballs that sensitive should see their ophthalmologist. Seriously, though, as a reader I'm offended. Were I a writer, I'd be deeply offended to know the work I struggled so hard to create, and the words I chose so carefully would be bastardized in this way. Don't wanna read it as written? Don't buy it.

I also think no one with any integrity atall could review a book they've run through this app. YMMV

Namatu · Mar 26, 2015

The world is not exactly how you (generic) want it, including books. If you don't want to read certain words :Ssh:

, then don't read the books that use them. This app seems to me to be for people who want the world to conform to them in every little way. Just... don't read the book. Especially the pirated book.

slhuang · Mar 26, 2015

Wait, what's this about them reselling our books illegally? Does someone have links or more info?

I was with Mr. F at first (not into the app but unlathered about it), but this would get me seriously furious. My books are under Creative Commons, licensed so people can make derivatives if they like -- but they are emphatically not allowed to resell those derivatives, and I will scream from the bloody rooftops if they are.

Thanks for the multiple threads, btw. P&CE gets dense fast and can be hard to wade through purely for information, even when my blood pressure's up to it.

Perks · Mar 26, 2015

I poked around a bit and I'll leave the author unnamed for now, but it appears there are books for sale in the app's store that are no long available in the legitimate outlets. This would ding their claim to be conduits for legitimate sales.

It was enough to have me contact them and request that my books be removed.

They are still on the app at the moment, but I will let you know when they're taken down.

Clean app -- Handy tool or censorship?

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