Could non-citizens decide the November election?
- Thread starter William Haskins
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How exactly do non-citizen's get on the electoral role? Whether you have ID or not you have to be using the name of a registered voter, surely?
Legal non-citizen residents can get a driver's license. Many states only require the license number to register to vote. But you have to check a box stating you are a citizen - which means that in many states non-citizens can register to vote if they lie.
Each state has its own registration rules - so it really varies by state.
Seeing as 37.0% of the voting-age-population participated in the 2010 elections for state representatives, 57.1% for presidential election in 2008, and 53.3% for state representatives in 2008 I don't really care if non-citizens vote. If a large portion of voting-eligible-citizens don't care about who their elected representatives are, then I don't see why non-citizens (who have to live with the same consequences of who's elected) voting is a problem.
I don't think non-citizens should vote (and according to the linked articles in the OP, the vast majority do not). If people are concerned that non-citizen votes are the deciding factor in close-races here's a wild idea: get the other 40% (or more) of the country's voting population to vote. That will easily dilute whatever effect non-citizen voting has to zilch.
The problem isn't a few hundred non-citizens casting votes, it's several million voting-eligible-citizens not bothering to do so.
I don't think non-citizens should vote (and according to the linked articles in the OP, the vast majority do not). If people are concerned that non-citizen votes are the deciding factor in close-races here's a wild idea: get the other 40% (or more) of the country's voting population to vote. That will easily dilute whatever effect non-citizen voting has to zilch.
The problem isn't a few hundred non-citizens casting votes, it's several million voting-eligible-citizens not bothering to do so.
Voting irregularities do, in fact, occur, but generally happen at the voting machine company level (I'm looking at you Diebold) and have tended to favor incumbent Republican presidential candidates...
On the national level some people feel that voting provides the illusion of democracy between two corporately owned parties and signals the consent of the governed. Some people, therefore feel that not voting can be looked upon as not consenting to such a sham. Sometimes, people do or don't do things for reasons beyond simply not bothering.
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Granted. I was more thinking in terms of rebutting the argument that non-citizens determine election outcomes by pointing out the large amount of citizens who, for whatever reason, do not vote and if did could easily make non-citizen voting inconsequential.
I didn't mean to demean people who choose not to vote, and apologize for it if that's how it came across.
Apology unnecessary, I was just making the point for completeness. You're larger point remains untarnished and sound.
Unfortunately local elections - where you actually can make a difference - tend to have the lowest voter turn out of all. The Toronto mayoral vote turnout was 60% and that's unusually high.
typical wing nut question.
show me one state that has any proof of any non-citizens being on their voting rolls...
oh..
http://www.ncsbe.gov/ncsbe/press-releases?udt_2226_param_detail=15
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I wasn't going to let you bait me this election, William, but the implicit statistics in that article need unpacking.
So, they had 10,000 questionable voters out of North Carolina's population of 9.8 million. Of those, they found 1,425 "likely" non citizens.
Note, this was not a random sample of 10,000 voters. It seems to be the total population of "questionable" registered voters. So the real statistic is that they may have found as many as 1,425 in the entire state or less than 1/100 of 1% of the population.
Looking at their election rolls, the total number of registered voters looks to be around 6.5 million. So that makes around 1/50th of 1%.
Furthermore, North Carolina elections can have recounts forced if the vote margins are too low.
If it's worth anything, we do have a really high number of undocumented Latinos. Actually, they usually find documents 
Businesses rely on them. We know what's up. It's all good*. Most of them still pay taxes, even. The numbers who vote are really small, considering.
My biggest problem is learning a new name to call someone after several years. That feels kinda strange!
eta* - oops, I'd better mention that we did have some slavery-like workplace conditions for some workers. That's obviously not OK. That's the real problem with it, imho. Not a tiny bit of voting.
Businesses rely on them. We know what's up. It's all good*. Most of them still pay taxes, even. The numbers who vote are really small, considering.
My biggest problem is learning a new name to call someone after several years. That feels kinda strange!
eta* - oops, I'd better mention that we did have some slavery-like workplace conditions for some workers. That's obviously not OK. That's the real problem with it, imho. Not a tiny bit of voting.
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all fine and good, (it was a press release from the state, not an article, by the way).
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Yes, but they'd need all 300 of their hands to do it.
Whereas I...
*wiggles 3000 fingers*
need only one.
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I was under the impression that even a person with a green card is unable to vote. I had a friend who is from overseas (but a citizen) tell me once that she wasn't allowed to vote. At least that's what I remember. This was also ages ago, and I might very well be remembering completely wrong.
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