Publishing contract in hand - should I get an agent?

Siri Kirpal · Apr 3, 2014

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Just popping in to say Congrats to popgun and Watson.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

popgun62 · Apr 3, 2014

Old Hack said:
I don't doubt that Mr Ziccardi has professional publishing experience: but both good and bad publishers suffer because of under-capitalisation and too-rapid growth.

Permuted is a small press, but I've heard from quite a few authors who have apparently been offered multi-book deals by them in the last few months.

This means they're expanding rapidly, and rapid expansion is very difficult for businesses to accommodate--especially for small publishers.

It costs a lot to bring a book to market, and that cost has to be covered until the book(s) start to sell, which can take upwards of eighteen months or more. With a multi-book deal, those costs are going to stretched out over even longer before they show a return on investment.

Under-capitalisation kills many new publishers, even if their books are great and sell well once they're published. Once they get into debt, they often can't catch up with themselves.

On top of that profit margins are small in trade publishing, so even when the books start to sell well there's not a large buffer of cash to pay for future expansion, or to cover the costs of debts incurred while waiting for books to reach the market.

I wish them well, and hope they thrive. But I've seen plenty of new publishers take on more than they could cope with, and fail as a result. So I'm cautious.

Any suggestions?

AnneGlynn · Apr 3, 2014

If you're planning to go with Permuted, are you certain you want an agent? Even if they bump up your advance by, say, twenty percent, you'll be giving most of the increase to your new agent. Then the agent will be collecting a piece of your royalties thereafter (generally fifteen percent).

If you're hoping the agent will use this offer to find a different, more high-profile publisher, that seems unlikely to me. Horror isn't currently a hot genre and your own self-published efforts didn't result in a large number of buyers. (If it did, my mistake, I missed it.) A contract offer is wonderful but a big publisher will want evidence that they'll see a reasonable profit before investing in your talent.

That's my opinion, anyway. I do think it's lovely that P.P. thinks enough of you to offer a long-term deal.

popgun62 · Apr 3, 2014

I don't know about A.G., but I don't really have any self-published books, and I'm not hoping for a more high-profile publisher - I really like Permuted Press. They put out an awesome product, the people I have spoken to are warm and friendly and treat me like a human. I look forward to working with them. But I do like the idea of having an advocate on my side who knows and understands the business to help me navigate the waters.

Old Hack · Apr 3, 2014

AnneGlynn said:
If you're planning to go with Permuted, are you certain you want an agent? Even if they bump up your advance by, say, twenty percent, you'll be giving most of the increase to your new agent. Then the agent will be collecting a piece of your royalties thereafter (generally fifteen percent).

If you're hoping the agent will use this offer to find a different, more high-profile publisher, that seems unlikely to me. Horror isn't currently a hot genre and your own self-published efforts didn't result in a large number of buyers. (If it did, my mistake, I missed it.) A contract offer is wonderful but a big publisher will want evidence that they'll see a reasonable profit before investing in your talent.

That's my opinion, anyway. I do think it's lovely that P.P. thinks enough of you to offer a long-term deal.

Agents do far more than "bump up your advance". They improve the contract in all sorts of ways, and sell foreign and subsidiary rights and they support you if there are conflicts, which is extremely helpful. And in almost every case they'll earn you more than they'll cost you.

popgun62 said:
I don't know about A.G., but I don't really have any self-published books, and I'm not hoping for a more high-profile publisher - I really like Permuted Press. They put out an awesome product, the people I have spoken to are warm and friendly and treat me like a human. I look forward to working with them. But I do like the idea of having an advocate on my side who knows and understands the business to help me navigate the waters.

I've found my agents invaluable.

AnneGlynn · Apr 4, 2014

popgun62 said:
I have a publishing contract from Permuted Press for four books, but I want to make sure I'm getting the best deal I can get. The thing is, I am a fairly new author. I have four books out, but no really big sales. Permuted Press is offering a pretty low "token" advance, which is standard for unknown authors, they said. Any advice?

The reason I thought you were self-published was your line, "I have four books out, but no really big sales". Sorry that I misunderstood.

MandyHubbard · Apr 7, 2014

D.A Watson said:
Hey Popgun. I'm in the exact same boat as yourself. Got an offer from Permuted last night for two novels and a short story, and am now planning on spending the day harassing all the agents who've already knocked me back. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss our contract terms!

I hope you're not saying you're going to go touch base with the agents who already rejected it. That's silly. You don't want an agent who only is interested NOW since you have a contract but who didn't love your writing before now.

D.A Watson · Apr 7, 2014

MandyHubbard said:
I hope you're not saying you're going to go touch base with the agents who already rejected it. That's silly. You don't want an agent who only is interested NOW since you have a contract but who didn't love your writing before now.

Hey Mandy,

That actually was the original plan until I thought it through and decided it was bad idea, for exactly the reason you state. If they didn't like my scribbles before but suddenly did a u-turn, it'd evidently just be about making a few shekels off a product they don't believe in.

MandyHubbard · Apr 7, 2014

D.A Watson said:
Hey Mandy,

That actually was the original plan until I thought it through and decided it was bad idea, for exactly the reason you state. If they didn't like my scribbles before but suddenly did a u-turn, it'd evidently just be about making a few shekels off a product they don't believe in.

Oh good.

I do think an agent is VALUABLE in this case, I'd just maybe approach a new group.

As old hack said, agents earn their keep. I know people always do the vague "they negotiate a lot of things beyond money" but it's no joke.

-Negotiating the option clause ensures you aren't forced to sit around for months or years, contractually obligated to wait for the first book to publish before you're allowed to sell any more books.
-Negotiating out of print clauses ensures your publisher doesn't keep your rights FOREVER just becuase they stuck an ebook up on amazon, even when it has sold zero copies in 5 years
-Negotiating royalty rates and escalators ensures if your book is a smash hit, you see the maximum $$
-Negotiating rights splits, or negotiating to keep those rights (audio, dramatic, translation) means WORLD DOMINATION! Or maybe just a little extra cash in your pocket

Etc, etc.

These are big clauses, not just silly little boilerplate that ends up being meaningless. They have major impact!

popgun62 · Apr 7, 2014

MandyHubbard said:
Oh good.

I do think an agent is VALUABLE in this case, I'd just maybe approach a new group.

As old hack said, agents earn their keep. I know people always do the vague "they negotiate a lot of things beyond money" but it's no joke.

-Negotiating the option clause ensures you aren't forced to sit around for months or years, contractually obligated to wait for the first book to publish before you're allowed to sell any more books.
-Negotiating out of print clauses ensures your publisher doesn't keep your rights FOREVER just becuase they stuck an ebook up on amazon, even when it has sold zero copies in 5 years
-Negotiating royalty rates and escalators ensures if your book is a smash hit, you see the maximum $$
-Negotiating rights splits, or negotiating to keep those rights (audio, dramatic, translation) means WORLD DOMINATION! Or maybe just a little extra cash in your pocket

Etc, etc.

These are big clauses, not just silly little boilerplate that ends up being meaningless. They have major impact!

Mandy, I have a question for you. I tried to get an agent when I got the original offer from Permuted and nobody bit. Because I was under time constraints, I said yes to the offer, and they drafted a contract for four books. If I were to get an agent, should he or she still be able to negotiate the contract, which I haven't signed yet?

MandyHubbard · Apr 8, 2014

popgun62 said:
Mandy, I have a question for you. I tried to get an agent when I got the original offer from Permuted and nobody bit. Because I was under time constraints, I said yes to the offer, and they drafted a contract for four books. If I were to get an agent, should he or she still be able to negotiate the contract, which I haven't signed yet?

When they offered I assume they included a deal memo, which have the major deal points. When you said yes, you agreed to those deal points.

That said there are still a ton of boilerplate contract terms to be negotiated that are NOT covered in the memo, and an agent might successfully talk their way out of a clause or two that you agreed to in the memo. They just wouldn't be able to make sweeping changes to the memo's deal points in the same way as before you agreed.

popgun62 · Apr 8, 2014

MandyHubbard said:
When they offered I assume they included a deal memo, which have the major deal points. When you said yes, you agreed to those deal points.

That said there are still a ton of boilerplate contract terms to be negotiated that are NOT covered in the memo, and an agent might successfully talk their way out of a clause or two that you agreed to in the memo. They just wouldn't be able to make sweeping changes to the memo's deal points in the same way as before you agreed.

I was hoping you'd say that

Thanks for the clarity, Mandy.

popgun62 · Apr 10, 2014

Got an offer today from MacKenzie Fraser-Bub at Trident Media Group. Stoked!

Quickbread · Apr 10, 2014

Congrats!!

popgun62 · Apr 10, 2014

Quickbread said:
Congrats!!

Thanks, Quickbread. She's pretty awesome - friendly, professional and no BS. My kind of agent.

Fizgig · Apr 11, 2014

Wow, congrats!!

MandyHubbard · Apr 11, 2014

popgun62 said:
Got an offer today from MacKenzie Fraser-Bub at Trident Media Group. Stoked!

HOORAY! Glad you will have someone in your corner for contract negotiations!

Siri Kirpal · Apr 11, 2014

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Wow! Wonderful!

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

popgun62 · Apr 11, 2014

Fizgig said:
Wow, congrats!!

Thanks Fizgig.

MandyHubbard said:
HOORAY! Glad you will have someone in your corner for contract negotiations!

Thanks for your help, Mandy - it's appreciated!

Siri Kirpal said:
Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Wow! Wonderful!

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Thanks Siri!

rac · Apr 16, 2014

Old Hack said:
D A Watson, as you're in the UK you could join the Society of Authors (it costs about £100 for a year) and then you can take advantage of their amazing, free-to-members, contract-checking service. You'll get pages of brilliant advice and it's well worth doing.

I'm not sure if there's an equivalent organisation in the US but if there is, join it NOW, Popgun.

I'd say it's worth looking for an agent. A good agent will improve your contract in all sorts of ways, and will probably find you some foreign and subsidiary rights deals, too.

Yes to everything you've said!

I've come late to this discussion, but I do want to contribute. The US equivalent to the UK Society of Authors is The Authors Guild, which is well worth joining for help with contracts. Even though I had an agent for my first novel, I signed a terrible contract which cost me thousands of dollars. I didn't know about The Authors Guild then. Here is a link to the website:

http://www.authorsguild.org/

Dev · May 1, 2014

Popgun, nice job! Congratulations! Please keep us up to date on how things are going, both with your agent and with Permuted!

popgun62 · May 1, 2014

Thanks Dev - will do!

Publishing contract in hand - should I get an agent?

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