50 Shades of Grey?

MumblingSage · Feb 11, 2013

mfarraday said:
Well, I finally read it. I liked the first few chapters, then got really depressed after he spanked her the 1st time, wasn't sure I'd be able to finish it. I did get tired of the hackneyed phrases that appeared over and over again, and of James' weak attempts to lend the characters some depth. It didn't touch me - one sex scene seemed very similar to another.

The idea/concept was original, but I think she could have thought of some original phrases. The first time she 'clambers' out of bed or into bed, fine. The 2nd time? The 3rd? How do you clamber into a shower, exactly? And the blushing got really old. And his growling. And everyone was so perfect and beautiful. Ugh. The flaws the characters had weren't truly flaws, it seemed to me. So I wasn't able to bond with them.

I didn't expect the ending, but it doesn't make me want to read/pay for the sequel. Ah well...I guess deep down I really wanted to see if I could write this sort of thing, and so took this as an example.

Can you write an emotionally engaging book, one that has characters with depth, and the sex still be good? Or is it one or the other? It seems if you want to write this much sex into the novel, the rest of it must suffer.

Anyway, that was my big purchase of the week. I'll read anything.

To the bolded: Yes, you can. I don't think 50 Shades of Grey does it, and I base this opinion on the fact that I read lots of other books that do it. I wish the women (and men and others) who flocked to buy this book had instead spent their money on some more solid work from Ellora's Cave, Samhain, or Carina (or, for m/m fans, my own publisher Dreamspinner).

I also cannot articulately express my soul-deep frustration that the bestselling erotica book had to be a borderline abusive male-dom, female-sub narrative. Intellecually, because of that 'borderline abusive' part (there's something that hasn't changed from its roots in Twilight!) and careless depiction of BDSM. Personally, because while I admire many readers and quite a few writers of femsub (Rose de Fer is a goddess in my personal pantheon), I'm allergic to the tropes of the subgenre as a whole and think it's high time we got some femme dom bestsellers going.

This is all very difficult to explain in front of my strightedged family and friends. In fact there was a joke going around of a person google searching "How to explain why I don't like 50 Shades of Grey without admitting I read & write better smutty fanfiction on the Internet".

Torgo · Feb 11, 2013

elindsen said:
That's how I felt. I'm reading the original Masters of the Universe and it really doesn't feel like Twilight to me. I think it keeps being marketed as such for more money.

Nobody markets it based on being Twilight fanfic. The publishers specifically play down that aspect - you won't find the T-word mentioned by them anywhere and you may not even see the word 'fanfic'.

gingerwoman · Feb 19, 2013

Torgo said:
Nobody markets it based on being Twilight fanfic. The publishers specifically play down that aspect - you won't find the T-word mentioned by them anywhere and you may not even see the word 'fanfic'.

It's people who want to trash the book mentioning fanfic and on the other side people who liked both Twilight and FSOG promoting it to their friends as an extension of Twilight.
Personally I hated Twilight enough that I couldn't finish it but I did manage to get through all of the first book of FSOG.

gingerwoman · Aug 8, 2013

fireluxlou said:
I agree there was not very much sex at all. I am really surprised that women like (love?) this book. Of course what I don't understand about women could fill an ocean.

Shane D

Click to expand...

Umm yea no. There's an obvious reason why you don't understand women because you don't think very highly of us anyway. I don't get why you are surprised either. It's all in your word choice.

A lot of that was just in the first 350 pages of the first book. You are wasting your words here. These two ladies love this author/stories.
And one has a Masters degree.

I thought it was boring, she was an idiot and he was an a-hole. But then I don't like romance books so i might have missed the whole "concept".

Shane D

Click to expand...

Umm yea no again. Don't try and be all high and mighty and like you are superior because you're a man and 'don't understand' women's things. It's so patronising.

Trying to belittle us because we are silly wimminz who read romance and sex. Romance is always belittled because its dominated by women. I get really irritated when men degrade genres that focus on women or women authors for not being 'high literary' or 'concept' because of romance and sex and it focusing on women's issues.

This sexism is frustrating and so old you'd have thought men would have learnt to at least respect women in some sort of degree instead of degrading us for being women, for acting like women, for having genres that we can dominate, for liking love stories or - shock horror - enjoying sex. Pfft.

Bumping as to show where I was coming from in the other thread as there was a fair bit of romance genre bashing from a couple of people in this thread.

Channy · Aug 14, 2013

Contrary to the title of the article, Stephenie Meyer still refuses to read 50 Shades. As she was caught and asked a question about who should be cast, you can see the very apparent look of horror on her face at the mention of the name before she swiftly says she hasn't read it.

At this point, is she not reading it because of where it came from? She's stated before that she didn't read any other vampire novels prior to writing hers, so it would make sense... but at the same time, if someone jacked off my series and made it smutty, I couldn't help but read it.... at least once.

http://www.tmz.com/2013/08/10/stephenie-meyer-twilight-fifty-shades-of-grey/

RemaCaracappa · Aug 14, 2013

Channy said:
Contrary to the title of the article, Stephenie Meyer still refuses to read 50 Shades. As she was caught and asked a question about who should be cast, you can see the very apparent look of horror on her face at the mention of the name before she swiftly says she hasn't read it.

At this point, is she not reading it because of where it came from? She's stated before that she didn't read any other vampire novels prior to writing hers, so it would make sense... but at the same time, if someone jacked off my series and made it smutty, I couldn't help but read it.... at least once.

http://www.tmz.com/2013/08/10/stephenie-meyer-twilight-fifty-shades-of-grey/

Jacqueline Carey wrote an interesting bit a while back on the topic of Meyer not reading Fifty Shades.

http://www.jacquelinecarey.com/archive13.htm

(Scroll down to March for the piece I'm referring to. I like what she has to say.)

Channy · Aug 15, 2013

Wow, that really was interesting. The whole time I'd assumed offended would be the right feeling here, but she makes an excellent point... rather than just taking someone elses work/characters/ideas.. she's taken them and flipped them upside down, opposite to how the original author ever saw then, and, well.. violated them.

If Meyer was going to sue, doing it at the beginning would have been the time. Now, she doesn't really have a case.. but she's probably scared as to what is going on in those books to her characters. Eventually though, it'll come out. Movie trailers, articles, she can't run forever.

Viciouspen · Aug 19, 2013

I'm not sure if someone else has hit on this yet as I'm waaaay too sleepy to read through every post till I get a nap, but...
For me 50 is a no no for two reasons.
Anything inspired by Twilight can jump in bonfire along with Twilight in my opinion.

They way 50 depicts the world of BDSM and people in BDSM d/s relationship is incredibly insulting to those of us who are actually in it and who aren't in need of "fixing" and are actually nice sane awesome people. Besides it being so deragatory, it's really not accurate at all.

Torgo · Aug 19, 2013

Viciouspen said:
Anything inspired by Twilight can jump in bonfire along with Twilight in my opinion.

Boooooo.

They way 50 depicts the world of BDSM and people in BDSM d/s relationship is incredibly insulting to those of us who are actually in it and who aren't in need of "fixing" and are actually nice sane awesome people. Besides it being so deragatory, it's really not accurate at all.

It doesn't, as far as I know, claim to be 'about' BDSM or to be a work of anthropology. (Does it? Anyone? Bueller?)

robjvargas · Aug 19, 2013

Viciouspen said:
They way 50 depicts the world of BDSM and people in BDSM d/s relationship is incredibly insulting to those of us who are actually in it and who aren't in need of "fixing" and are actually nice sane awesome people. Besides it being so deragatory, it's really not accurate at all.

Like Sleeping Beauty? Like Exit to Eden(take your pick, novel or movie)? Like Story of O?

It's *fiction*. Even more, 50 Shades is fiction based on a fictional world.

Anyone that tries to live their lives by that kind of literature has way bigger problems than the realism of the work.

There are plenty of how-to's and memoirs out there if you want real. Not everyone I know in the scene is into the fiction, but those that are seek out the fiction that goes places no real relationship can go.

Viciouspen · Aug 19, 2013

Torgo said:
Boooooo.

It doesn't, as far as I know, claim to be 'about' BDSM or to be a work of anthropology. (Does it? Anyone? Bueller?)

Well come on. If all it does is "not claim" that's incredibly flimsy. That'd be like someone writing an incredibly offensive book about their hate filled ignorant views of some race and then just saying they never claimed it was about that race, yet the whole book goes out of its's way to specify the race. You could technically say "well jee I never specified it was that race. It's fiction" but yeah....

robjvargas said:
Like Sleeping Beauty? Like Exit to Eden(take your pick, novel or movie)? Like Story of O?

It's *fiction*. Even more, 50 Shades is fiction based on a fictional world.

Anyone that tries to live their lives by that kind of literature has way bigger problems than the realism of the work.

There are plenty of how-to's and memoirs out there if you want real. Not everyone I know in the scene is into the fiction, but those that are seek out the fiction that goes places no real relationship can go.

I know. It's not as if there aren't others that are problems. 50 bothers me more. That whole fixing these broken people who are only in bdsm because they're broken is so biggotted and ignorant. If it was about fixing a race or religious belief the book would be hated but since it's just whacky bdsm people it's okay.

Torgo · Aug 20, 2013

Viciouspen said:
Well come on. If all it does is "not claim" that's incredibly flimsy. That'd be like someone writing an incredibly offensive book about their hate filled ignorant views of some race and then just saying they never claimed it was about that race, yet the whole book goes out of its's way to specify the race. You could technically say "well jee I never specified it was that race. It's fiction" but yeah....

Not 'about' BDSM, was the nuance I was trying to push. It's 'about' two people in a sexual relationship that has - in their subjective assessment - BDSM aspects. It never positions itself as a kind of field guide to a culture, and it uses the term BDSM about five times in the whole trilogy. I think it's a bit of a stretch to argue, as per your analogy, that 50 Shades 'goes out of its way to specify' and discuss BDSM when it hardly ever uses that term, and - as far as you're concerned - doesn't even depict anything that you recognise as a BDSM lifestyle.

I get that people find it offensive, but I don't think it's intended to generalise about real life so much as to indulge in a fantasy.

Channy · Sep 2, 2013

Well, the leading roles have been cast. I've got to say that Ana looks appropriate but Christian looks too.... old...?

sauce

gingerwoman · Sep 2, 2013

Ana looks too old too, she has bags under her eyes.

Maryn · Sep 3, 2013

Channy, I'm afraid we've got problems here, more than one.

First, those images are hot-linked, which we cannot allow. Read what it is and why we can't let you do it here.

Second, those images and the text appear to be copyrighted material lifted from the source. It's okay to paraphrase or to quote a small portion, then link to the rest, but not to quote in its entirety.

Third, those images greatly exceed the size we allow. Please re-size those images so each is no more that 1600 pixels in total area. For rectangular pictures, you want 348 x 460 pixels, like this:

If you don't know how to resize, you can remove the pictures and replace them with either thumbnails or with links to their sources instead. If neither of those things happens, I'm afraid I'll have to remove them, I hope before their presence causes trouble for the owner of AW.

Maryn, in her official capacity, which is right about ten gallons

Channy · Sep 4, 2013

I figured quoting (full or partial) was allowed as long as it was sourced, which it was. I've never experienced that problem before on another website, but, meh. Deleted.

elindsen · Sep 4, 2013

Christian looks too muscular. All those swanky suits are going to be tight. And Ana, I'm not sure. Too pretty? I picture her as a bald raccoon type of girl. In the book she doesn't really know how to put on make-up. I'm not sure about Christian though. I've never seen the guy act but he doesn't look right.

I was voting for Alexsander Skarsgard so I'm won't be watching lol

bearilou · Sep 7, 2013

Fifty Shades of Grey fans launch online petition protesting film casting

Fifty Shades of Grey producer Dana Brunetti tried to assuage fan anger. "There is a lot that goes into casting that isn't just looks," he tweeted. "Talent, availability, their desire to do it, chemistry with other actor, etc. So if your favourite wasn't cast, then it is most likely due to something on that list. Keep that in mind while hating and keep perspective."

Yeah...about that....

Pterofan · Sep 7, 2013

"Fifty Shades of Grey fans launch online petition protesting film casting"

Why? Do they want Ben Affleck to play Christian?

bearilou · Sep 7, 2013

Pterofan said:
Why? Do they want Ben Affleck to play Christian?

"Matt Bomer is the PERFECT DESCRIPTION OF CHRISTIAN GREY AND ALEXIS BLEDEL IS THE PERFECT ACTRESS TO REPRESENT ANASTASIA STEELE and if THEY ARE NOT, NOBODY WILL BE And I read the whole trilogy and I can assure that Matt is the perfect actor for this movie and Alexis too," reads the Change.org petition. "So please PLEASE, all of the GREYsessed and Bomerettes in the world NEED those actors. They always will be for us the Christian Grey and Anastasia Steele. WE CAN DO ANYTHING GUYS, ANYTHING."

I get that the fans have the perfect casting in their heads and it must be a disappointment when their favorite actor wasn't asked/picked for the part. And who knows, the casting agency (?) may have really flubbed it up but this is really beyond anything I can fathom.

Just because someone who started the petition wanted certain actors in the roles, doesn't mean, like I quoted above, that the actor was actually right for the part. Or even available or maybe, just maybe wasn't interested.

Ann_Mayburn · Sep 7, 2013

Sorry, he is way to fucking sexy to play Christian.

Mmmm...Jax from Sons of Anarchy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt-ibWtIZwM

Tepelus · Sep 7, 2013

Some people have nothing better to do with their lives.

Channy · Sep 7, 2013

I'd love to see interviews with a lot of the head-liners for the roles where they state that they didn't want to do it.

....But alas, that'll never happen. It really makes you think though that if anyone super famous (no offence to the SoA guy there), would they be typecasted as that role forever? There's hits and misses with that and some long standing stars with a famous role have broken out of it successfully (ala Emma Watson), but some aren't so lucky, or just don't have the chops for it. It's probably better this way.

50 Shades of Grey?

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