Querying about novels you have unpublished

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Kronisk

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Early this year I made the mistake of self-publishing, prematurely, a novel I have been working on in bursts for ten years. When I finally managed to get some critical looks at it, I was told it really needed to be edited or subjected to beta reads.

Thing is, I am not a DEY (do everything yourself) guy. I have a limited set of skills, and whilst I am good at those skills, I need to interact with others about my work.

All this brings me to a question. Have I completely ruined my chances of getting an agent's representation for my novel? Or does unpublishing them and saying "let's get this professionally seen to" change that? I guess I am having difficulty defining the actual question haha. But I feel I can bring something unusual or different to the table, and I want something I have never been given before in my life, called a chance.

Does anyone have any insights into where I go from here with regard to my old books?
 

Osulagh

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Have I completely ruined my chances of getting an agent's representation for my novel?
There can be some complications surrounding that novel's chances with agents and publishers because it was previously published. Once removed from the market and if it's good enough that a agent must have it after querying them, you'll need to tell them it was previously published (if revised, you need to tell them as a different version), and go from there. You can avoid this by querying/submitting new, unpublished work.

Or does unpublishing them and saying "let's get this professionally seen to" change that?

I guess I am having difficulty defining the actual question haha. But I feel I can bring something unusual or different to the table, and I want something I have never been given before in my life, called a chance.

Self-publishing isn't unprofessional to say the least. It certainly can be--and mostly is nowadays with the viability factor of e-publishing.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Are you questioning if it's good to take them off the market to have them republished via the trade route (agent->editor at publisher->published)?

Does anyone have any insights into where I go from here with regard to my old books?

I don't know. If you're thinking of just chucking them at an agent to get them to push to publishers, I can't tell you anything because I haven't read you.

Something is picking at the back of my head:

Early this year I made the mistake of self-publishing, prematurely, a novel I have been working on in bursts for ten years. When I finally managed to get some critical looks at it, I was told it really needed to be edited or subjected to beta reads.

Thing is, I am not a DEY (do everything yourself) guy. I have a limited set of skills, and whilst I am good at those skills, I need to interact with others about my work.

Is this suppose to be an excuse for not having your book up to par? Sounds like it; it's written to be so.

If so, are you thinking that agents or editors are going to whip your work into shape, or something? Because they could if they see promise, but it's very unlikely they are going to hold your hand through everything. Editing is part of their job, but not a huge enough part to mentor writers.

If you don't have the skill to do something, learn and develop that skill. The biggest part--and the ever-on-going process--of being an author is polishing your skills, and just meeting "publishing standards" can take years. You talk about getting a chance... well, being an author isn't about getting a chance. It's not like trying out to be quarterback in your senior year of high school.You give yourself chances, and you waste those chances how you choose to. You can build for how many years you need to master your craft and then query/submit to see how well your efforts have paid off--all at your own pace, your body's condition willing.

If you mean "I need to interact with others about my work" as in ways to improve, look into the Share Your Work section (SYW) here at AW. When you have 50+ posts, you can put your work up on the board and receive critiques (although, published works are prohibited). In the meantime you can comment and critique other people's work and read other critiques--which all improves your writing skills.
 

Kronisk

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Thanks for the replies so far, folks.

Is this suppose to be an excuse for not having your book up to par? Sounds like it; it's written to be so.

Absolutely _ not. It most emphatically was not written to be so, although I can see how it could be mistaken that way.

One of the biggest problems I have in general is that if I leave any stone untouched, I find that in conversation electronic or otherwise, people will use that against me to "fence me in", so to speak. I also know this explanation does not make complete sense, but as it relates to the part of the original message you quote; what I am trying to do there is say "if you expect an answer to 'why have you not...', the answer is already in front of you. So if one wants to ask me why I had not used beta readers or other consultants before I put the damned thing online, there is your answer. It has only been a day or two since I even knew this site existed, and the site I learned of this site, months at most. This is one of those "accessibility" things I deal with.

(I hate using search engines. I could put in the most explicit query saying I want music in FLAC and ONLY in FLAC. MP3! MP3! MP3!, it returns. Twenty years has not improved the Internet at all.)

Now, having said all of that, I have been working on my materials for around ten years. I was working on writing for twice of that. I read and reread my own work all the damned time, tweaking it as much as I can. But expecting me to be my own marketroid or the like is a wee bit much. One thing the critiques of my book really opened my eyes to was that I was expecting to do everything myself in terms of editing and proofreading and tweaking, and that just did not work. For one thing, my writing style is not stock-standard. This is because my way of using language itself is not stock standard. (I will just sum up this explanation of one of the issues with my book that is covered in the original statement this way: I. Do. Not. Speak. an incredibly ignorant and self-validating individual.) So if I am being unreasonable by saying I need other sets of eyes to look at my work and tell me where I am at, then I might as well quit now and go become a statistic.

Phew. That came out a little differently than I started thinking it. Thank you, Osulagh, but thus far I am not at all certain we can have a meaningful conversation about where I am at with my work.
 
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mpack

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So if I am being unreasonable by saying I need other sets of eyes to look at my work and tell me where I am at, then I might as well quit now and go become a statistic.

We all need other eyes to look at our work. That's why you need beta readers. Once you reach 50 posts on this forum, you can get feedback on excerpts of your writing in the Share Your Work section. That might help highlight areas where you need improvement and help you discover which skills to hone for your own editing.
 

Kronisk

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mpack, yeah, that is largely what I am searching for. Beta readers and similar. As I hint in my message, I have been writing for a long time. It is the other stuff we are supposed to do after writing, all the (good) editing (that actually makes the work more accessible to others), championing ourselves with agents, blah blah... Pungent Stench said it best, I am lost in darkest woods without a moon.
 

Lhowling

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mpack, yeah, that is largely what I am searching for. Beta readers and similar. As I hint in my message, I have been writing for a long time. It is the other stuff we are supposed to do after writing, all the (good) editing (that actually makes the work more accessible to others), championing ourselves with agents, blah blah... Pungent Stench said it best, I am lost in darkest woods without a moon.

I am confused - what is your goal? To go through trade-publishing or to self-publish?

Also, have you've written a first draft and just put it out there or was it after you employed your own edits did you publish your work?

It's just as important to understand and know the market than it is to finish and polish your manuscript. You're better off attending a conference where you can not only get your work critiqued but you can learn the publishing business. It may cost you a pretty penny, but it's a business investment, and a valuable one.

You could also take classes with writers who are already engaged in that process. Talk to them, and aim to talk to authors who are where you want to be. Ask them about their experiences.

All of those things you're lost on - researching the market, meaning literary agents, publishers, as well as other authors with similar books - are all part of the business of being an author. You can't go into a cave, work on your book, and take it to market without any preparation involved.

AW is one of many great resources that should help shape your writing goals. If you are interested in self-publishing, then there are plenty of threads in which members talk about their own experiences. I would read as many as you can to get a sense of what to expect. Of course SYW is helpful!

There's no excuse for not getting on the internet, going to the library, or going to your bookstore and researching the business of writing. As an author you could do that as you work on your manuscript.
 

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So, now you've found Absolute Write. As always -- better late than never! There is a wealth of information here.

There will also be books, probably at your local library, that you can read on the craft of writing, on the mechanics of publishing, etc. I recommend "Self Editing For Fiction Writers" to start with -- it's a really good overview of all the aspects of the craft, whether an author intends to self-publish or to seek a trade publishing contract.

There are no guarantees or hard and fast rules about what you can do with a previously published book. In your case, you can certainly pull it from the market, edit and revise it to your heart's content, and seek agent representation. As long as you are honest with the agent about its prev-pub status, you'll be fine.

AW has lots of resources. If you are looking for beta readers, you can post your request here (with the caveat that people are, understandably, a bit hesitant to volunteer their time and efforts to someone they don't know at all; if you stick around and participate in the forum and let us get to know you, your chances will be better). If you are looking for lots of feedback on your opening scene, you can post it in Share Your Work (password vista) in the appropriate genre subforum, once you've got 50 posts to your credit.
 

Kronisk

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I am confused - what is your goal? To go through trade-publishing or to self-publish?
Trust me, you are not the only one who is confused. My goal is mainly to get my work out to the public. Which route I take depends on what is best for me and what I can accomplish. Or something.

Also, have you've written a first draft and just put it out there or was it after you employed your own edits did you publish your work?

Definitely after I employed my own edits. I go over manuscripts a lot. The novel I speak of, I lost count of the number of times I redrafted it.

So, now you've found Absolute Write. As always -- better late than never!
Thanks, Unimportant, that pretty much sums up how I am feeling about it at present. It is partly a case of "do I want to continue down the writing path?" mixed with "what the hell else am I going to do?" mixed with "replies like this one make the effort to speak up worthwhile". :D
 

Unimportant

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Trust me, you are not the only one who is confused. My goal is mainly to get my work out to the public. Which route I take depends on what is best for me and what I can accomplish. Or something.

There's no law that says you have to decide today. Or that you have to make a single decision.

First, it seems, you want to learn how to edit your own work. That's excellent. As I and others have mentioned, there are many ways to do this. Not every way will work for every author. Each of us have to find what works for us as individuals. So try everything -- How To Write books, critique groups (like Share Your Work), one-on-one beta reads, writing exercises (many How To Write books will include these), etc. Figure out how you learn best, and go with that.

Then you want to get your work in front of readers. There are lots of ways to do this too. Trade presses (for novels; magazines for short stories and poetry). Small presses. Micro presses. Self publishing. Free-to-read stories on blogs or as e books. Again, you need to figure out what your goals are, what your priorities are -- not just for your writing career, but for each piece you write. You may find that one awesome stand-alone novel is your best bet for seeking an agent, while another niche-market series may be better off self-published.

It does take a long time to learn all this stuff, and that can be daunting, but it's like any craft -- you get out of it what you put into it, and nobody's born knowing it all. There are no guarantees of fame, fortune, success, happiness, or anything else. I reckon it's best to think of it as a hobby, at least at the start, and to do it for the love, with the short-term goals to complete stories, get feedback, and enjoy seeing yourself improve at the craft.
 

Lhowling

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Trust me, you are not the only one who is confused. My goal is mainly to get my work out to the public. Which route I take depends on what is best for me and what I can accomplish. Or something.

Haha! That's totally understandable. I was the same way too when I first started thinking about publishing my manuscript. Now that it's in its final rewrites I've had to really become specific with my goals. And you're right, only you know what's best for you when it comes to publishing!

I'll share some great resources (among many) that has helped me in figuring out what to do.

A great website to check out is Joanna Penn's website is The Creative Penn. I just finished watching a video all about the different options for publishing your book and which one is best for you. She is biased against traditional publishing for her own reasons (she talks more about that on her website somewhere) However, she does give, what I think, are valid pros and cons for trade publishing and self (or indie) publishing. I think a valuable tip you can take away from the video is that your writing is about you, the publishing is all about the book, and marketing is about the reader. She also discusses that what kind of publishing you choose is based on the project you're working on. You might want to self-publish stories that might do better in a niche, while signing with a commercial publisher for more marketable projects (NOTE: If you self-publish first, depending on how many sales you gain may hurt or help your chances of getting into trade publishing in the future, this I learned right here on AW and confirmed through other sources).

Another book is Dean Koontz's Writing Popular Fiction. It's an oldie but if you're interested in getting signed with a lit agent and breaking into commercial publishing, then it's filled with great writing tips.

There's also Write Good or Die, which is FREE for download and contains essays from some really awesome authors.

I've also heard James Scott Bell's Revision and Self Editing for Publication is a great resource. I haven't read it but I did like one of his other technique books.

Hope this helps!
 
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Old Hack

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All this brings me to a question. Have I completely ruined my chances of getting an agent's representation for my novel? Or does unpublishing them and saying "let's get this professionally seen to" change that? I guess I am having difficulty defining the actual question haha. But I feel I can bring something unusual or different to the table, and I want something I have never been given before in my life, called a chance.

Does anyone have any insights into where I go from here with regard to my old books?

It's possible to find a trade publishing deal for a book which was previously self-published, but as ever, the book has to be very good for this to happen.

One of the biggest problems I have in general is that if I leave any stone untouched, I find that in conversation electronic or otherwise, people will use that against me to "fence me in", so to speak. I also know this explanation does not make complete sense, but as it relates to the part of the original message you quote; what I am trying to do there is say "if you expect an answer to 'why have you not...', the answer is already in front of you. So if one wants to ask me why I had not used beta readers or other consultants before I put the damned thing online, there is your answer. It has only been a day or two since I even knew this site existed, and the site I learned of this site, months at most. This is one of those "accessibility" things I deal with.

I find this paragraph almost unintelligible. You have a tendency to ramble; your prose is often very wordy and convoluted.

I suspect this is going to cause you more problems in finding a trade deal than your book's prior publication.
 

Kronisk

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Old Hack, what I was trying to say was that for reasons to do with how others treat me in conversation, I feel compelled to use 500 words when 5 will suffice.

I am told that in the original Bedazzled, the Devil looks for any minute detail in the deal he has made with the protagonist. No matter how slight. If I leave one hair out of place in conversation, an incredibly ignorant and self-validating individual will take it and do grievous things to me with it. As you might have guessed, this has a powerful effect on what I write. When I write "Magi deserve equal rights including that to kill any normie that looks at them funny", for example, I mean exactly that. But I live in a world where people want to tell me I wrote "Magi want to be cured of what makes them Magi".

I read the paragraph you speak of, and although my words get jumbled and confused in places in my head-voice, the salient points:

* people are expected to use my words to imprison me
* if you are going to ask me why I have not already done something that seems obvious to you, the likely answer is that it is not obvious to me
* this is my own personal "accessibility issue"

seemed discernible to me.

I think the biggest problem I have at present is that I hate writing. Almost as much as I hate conversing with certain kinds of people.
 
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Old Hack

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Old Hack, what I was trying to say was that for reasons to do with how others treat me in conversation, I feel compelled to use 500 words when 5 will suffice.

Ha! I know that feeling, especially when I'm writing. But then I revise my work, and cut all that extra verbiage out.

I am told that in the original Bedazzled, the Devil looks for any minute detail in the deal he has made with the protagonist. No matter how slight. If I leave one hair out of place in conversation, a normie will come take it and shove it up my asshole. As you might have guessed, this has a powerful effect on what I write. When I write "Magi deserve equal rights including that to kill any normie that looks at them funny", for example, I mean exactly that. But I live in a world where people want to tell me I wrote "Magi want to be cured of what makes them Magi".

That part that I've put into bold is not acceptable, Kronisk.

I assume that you're referring to people without autism when you use the term "normie". You're generalising hugely, and in a very negative way. I wouldn't allow such talk if it were instead directed towards those with autism; I won't allow this, either. It's not appropriate. Please don't do it here. Thanks.

I read the paragraph you speak of, and although my words get jumbled and confused in places in my head-voice, the salient points:

* people are expected to use my words to imprison me
* if you are going to ask me why I have not already done something that seems obvious to you, the likely answer is that it is not obvious to me
* this is my own personal "accessibility issue"

seemed discernible to me.

Thanks for the clarification.

I understand the second and third points, and agree: just because something seems obvious to me, it isn't going to seem obvious to someone else. I try not to make such generalisations. I hope you'll let me know if and when I make them.

Your first point, however, still escapes me. Why do you expect people to use your words to imprison you? I'd appreciate a clarification, if you wouldn't mind.

I think the biggest problem I have at present is that I hate writing. Almost as much as I hate conversing with certain kinds of people.

If you hate writing, why do you do it?
 

Kronisk

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Old Hack, let me go and scrub out the objectionable part of the old message so we do not have any further unpleasantness over it. *does so*

Okay, I put a less vulgar phrase in but it seems I cannot make what I mean clear with either. Oh well, maybe next time, blah blah. :/

I am going to just say this little point very quietly so I can say it and get it out of the way. I never say "with autism", and I would thank others to follow suit. Numerous people have seen me respond to what I refer to as separationist language in ways that are consistent with PTSD. It is a bit like all those words that are banned now, except people do not see yet the effect because they are... well, that's more of me being nasty.

Now, a point that I do not think I am communicating the right way for a lot of people is that when I write, I feel that there is some sort of "filter" between myself and those I am writing at. I can say "black black black" and they will tell me I am saying "green green green" to them. That is a very abstract example but this problem dominates every conversation that I have to the point where even people who think themselves family infuriate me.

David Letterman used to do a sketch on his show called the unfair edit. His staff make obvious edits to a political speech in order to get a laugh.

I am not sure I am getting the point across but my feeling is that I could say "fluffy bunny bouncing across meadow" and some, not necessarily here, but some, will proclaim I threatened to level Sydney with a dirty bomb. This has a substantial influence on how I write and "speak".

Which brings me to why I write. Right now it is very valid to ask what else I am going to do.
 

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Conversations (verbal) are different than writing because one can't edit them. Whatever comes out of ones mouth is out there and one can only try and explain what has already been said. If there is a "filter" or some other disconnect between what one is thinking and what one says, then conversation can be confusing and frustrating because... things don't always match up.

Writing is different because one has the opportunity to look at what one has written and edit for clarity and meaning. Those things one might have omitted can be put back in. The excess words that might have been added in an effort to be absolutely certain meaning was clear can also be cut back out.

But it seems like there's an antagonism coming through here that predetermines questions meant to help are being interpreted as "more of the same" misunderstanding.

There are a number of folks on these forums who are on the spectrum and no one sees them as any different than the rest of us. But knowing that someone has communication differences can help us in offering feedback and in reading responses. (Especially when folks seem particularly argumentative.)

FREX: A few months back someone asked about options for a phone call from an agent. This particular individual made it clear that he has a physical condition that makes phone conversations very difficult. By being clear about why he needed another option, he was able to get numerous suggestions from folks about solutions that actually applied to his circumstance. Had he just said "I don't want to talk on the phone with anyone," most of the conversation would have centered around the "why" instead of helping him with a solution.

Writing and publishing are a business in which specificity is required and there are many terms that are frequently confusing or misapplied. Folks asking for clarification just means we want to be certain we are all talking about the same thing.

As far as the initial question goes, if the book is brilliant you might be able to secure an agent even though it was already self-published. Chances of doing so are better if A) you've substantially revised between the version you published and the version you query and B) you didn't sell many (or any copies) the first time. The first item means you're offering the agent something "new" and the second means you've not already tapped out the market for your book.

Alternately, you could write something different and search for an agent, then once you have someone repping your work, bring up the first book and see if they are interested in working with you on revising and submitting it.

Best of luck.
 

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Old Hack, let me go and scrub out the objectionable part of the old message so we do not have any further unpleasantness over it. *does so*

This is your newer version:

If I leave one hair out of place in conversation, a normie will take it and do grievous things to me with it.

Okay, I put a less vulgar phrase in but it seems I cannot make what I mean clear with either. Oh well, maybe next time, blah blah. :/

You've not improved it, Kronisk. It wasn't your use of the word "asshole" which I objected to: it was your sneering at "normies". I thought I made that clear in my earlier comment to you.

You do not get to disparage any group of people here at AW. Read our Newbie Guide, please.

I am going to just say this little point very quietly so I can say it and get it out of the way. I never say "with autism", and I would thank others to follow suit.

My youngest son has dyslexia. But there's far more to him than his dyslexia: he is talented and clever and kind and funny. If I referred to him as a dyslexic person I'd be ignoring all of those attributes and suggesting that his dyslexia defines him. So I say he has dyslexia, or he's a boy with dyslexia, rather than a dyslexic kid. I'm not alone in preferring this terminology, nor is it only appropriate in relation to people with dyslexia.

In using the term "with autism" I was making it clear that people with autism should not be defined by their autism. What do you think is better? What do you prefer? Because while I might not like a specific term if it's how you self-identify, I'm happy to use it.

Now, a point that I do not think I am communicating the right way for a lot of people is that when I write, I feel that there is some sort of "filter" between myself and those I am writing at. I can say "black black black" and they will tell me I am saying "green green green" to them. That is a very abstract example but this problem dominates every conversation that I have to the point where even people who think themselves family infuriate me.

Welcome to the club. My family infuriates me on a daily basis; we have communication blips all the time. We deal with them by assuming good intentions, by asking for clarification, by considering whether we are speaking clearly or not. It's something that happens whenever people are involved in a situation.
 

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Which brings me to why I write. Right now it is very valid to ask what else I am going to do.


Something you love

Look, writing is hard. Emotionally, I mean. It's a long old slog, and one you'll probably only get through because you love to do it, because you can't NOT do it.


What else can you do? About a billion other things. Start with what you love to do. Go from there. Be kind to yourself and do something you love. Because you have to.

But if you hate writing now, you're not going to get any happier by doing it.
 

Kronisk

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In using the term "with autism" I was making it clear that people with autism should not be defined by their autism. What do you think is better? What do you prefer? Because while I might not like a specific term if it's how you self-identify, I'm happy to use it.
Again, I was so going to leave this thread unreplied and just go and think things over a bit because I am not sure I can achieve anything here. But I need to make something understood.

As I write in my thus-far un-looked at novel, one's brain is as much a part of them (if not more so) than their hair, skin, eyes, naughty bits, even their voice. Without the brain, all of that becomes meaningless anyway. And it is the goal of the curebie to take my brain out and replace it with something else.

One of the ways they advance their goal is to write as if my brain is a separate thing to me, that latched onto me and took me over after my birth.

I surely hope you can see how ridiculous this is, or at least how ridiculous I happen to grok this is.

Autism is also not dyslexia. It is not any of the other complaints I have that truly disable me: diabetes, thrombosis-happy genes, high blood cholesterol, anxiety/PTSD symptoms, and so forth. It is unique, and thus requires unique consideration.

If the ratio of people with insulin-dependent diabetes to those without were inverted tomorrow, that is, approximately one person with working islet cells for every few hundred without, the people with diabetes would still be considered disabled.

This is not the case with autism.

I could go on about how merely reading "with autism" makes me feel, but I think I have explained that elsewhere already. It is in fact one of the many reasons for my confrontational nature that has drawn complaints. Normally I can try to work it through when I see it in conversations that are primarily between other people, but not when it is in an article addressed to everybody, and certainly not when the person is addressing me.

Now, briefly diverting to Mr Flibble, I do not want to get into a deep and meaningful here so I will say it in points. I feel it is too late for me to start over, getting even a start elsewhere seems impossible, and although where I am at with my writing feels like being on the starting block with my feet nailed in, it is one of the few things I make measurable, real progress in. That is why I am still doing it.

The aim is not to get any happier. The aim is to make a contribution that others, maybe even myself, might benefit from. What I have shared of my work thus far does not make that very clear, admittedly.
 

Debbie V

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I'm going to jump in here at the risk of doing the very thing you feel others do to you. I'm taking some of your words out of context and interpreting them.

"when I write, I feel that there is some sort of "filter" between myself and those I am writing at."

I wonder if the key here isn't in the words above. Perhaps, you need to write to or for.

Writing is communication. If you share your work, others will interpret it based on their own experiences and expectations. You can not control that.

So write to someone with an intent to open a dialog or write for them as a gift you give freely. You can also write to or for yourself alone.

In terms of your original question, you may be better off writing a new novel and sending that to agents. If they call about rep, you can mention the other novel. Most agents will ask what else you are working on. One hit wonders don't pay the bills for long, so they want authors who are in for multiple works for the long haul of a career. Some agents rep the work, not the author. You can research them once the self pubbed book is in trade pub shape.

I hope this post has been helpful to you.
 

Mr Flibble

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Now, briefly diverting to Mr Flibble, I do not want to get into a deep and meaningful here so I will say it in points. I feel it is too late for me to start over, getting even a start elsewhere seems impossible, and although where I am at with my writing feels like being on the starting block with my feet nailed in, it is one of the few things I make measurable, real progress in. That is why I am still doing it.

It is never too late to do what you love

If you do not love writing, it will eat you up and spit you out.

I admit I have a love/hate relationship with writing at times

But I do it because I cannot NOT do it.


Find what you have a compulsion to do. The thing you HAVE to do. If that is writing, cool. But if you hate it now...it will only get worse.


Do you want to do that to yourself? You have to consider your own emotional well being as well.

Think hard. Are you doing this because it seems like the only thing you can (bad reason and likely not true) or because you need to. Have to.


If the latter, I tip my hat to you and wish you luck - you'll need it.


If the former...find something else. Really

If you are hell bent on it...then study, Read everything you can in your genre. Study why it works (or not for you) Study how the writer creates this or that effect. Attack it like you'll be examed next week
 

whiporee

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To answer your question, yes, that book is done in terms of querying agents. As a general rule, publishers do not touch self-published stuff unless they think there's a giant tapped market in addition to solid sales. Your book doesn't seem to have the sales that would make a publisher jump. And without that salability, there's no reason for an agent to put effort into it. And if you lie and say it's never been published, it's dead to them and word does get around.

You might be able to pull out parts of it and use them somewhere else, but even that is tricky. So I'd say trunk this one and write something else, and f it becomes successful, all the rules change. But not until then.
 

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The OP is taking a short break from AW at the moment so I'll lock this now. If anyone has a good reason for reopening it, PM me.
 
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