All Things Middle Grade

wyndmaker

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I am working on two books now, both sci-fi/fantasy, one for MG the other much darker and for older YA crowd. I am working with my mother who is a dang good artist on the illustrations for the MG book, I am a fairly decent cartoonist, but her fine art will kick my butt. Together we should come up with some pretty good stuff.

ZENDAR THE DREAMER-----MG chapter book with illustrations scifi fantasy

PATHS OF LIGHT AND DARKNES-----YA scifi fantasy
 

profen4

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I am working on two books now, both sci-fi/fantasy, one for MG the other much darker and for older YA crowd. I am working with my mother who is a dang good artist on the illustrations for the MG book, I am a fairly decent cartoonist, but her fine art will kick my butt. Together we should come up with some pretty good stuff.


Good luck, Wyndmaker - sounds like you're having a good time with it!
 

seedling

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Now that I have realized that my YA book is actually MG, I'm glad to have found this place. If I'm writing upper MG, do I have to dumb down my words? I use some advanced words in my MS on purpose (the MC is very smart) and now I am thinking it might be too advanced. Any thoughts?
 

Kitty Pryde

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Now that I have realized that my YA book is actually MG, I'm glad to have found this place. If I'm writing upper MG, do I have to dumb down my words? I use some advanced words in my MS on purpose (the MC is very smart) and now I am thinking it might be too advanced. Any thoughts?

If you're ever thinking to "dumb it down" when writing for kids, I would suggest politely that you're doing it wrong. Kids aren't dumb. You do need to know your audience and write to your audience, of course, but you aren't writing for unintelligent readers.
 

Smish

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If you're ever thinking to "dumb it down" when writing for kids, I would suggest politely that you're doing it wrong. Kids aren't dumb. You do need to know your audience and write to your audience, of course, but you aren't writing for unintelligent readers.

QFT.

There's not much of a vocabulary/reading level difference between MG and YA. The differences are more in how the character thinks and feels, the things that are important to him, his voice.

And brainy MCs can work very well. I'd suggest you add Emma Jean Lazarus Fell Out of a Tree and Millicent Min, Girl Genius to your reading list.

Good luck! And welcome to the kidlit gang. :D
 

cara

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I was wondering about my MC and wording too.
I have a 12 year old MC, but she seems very capable, is that all right? she basically figures things out quite fast, is quite in control of herself and such (she does overlook things and make mistakes, but I was wondering if the MC needed to seem younger and frightened by things, or if a more 'adult' MC was okay).
Thanks :)
 

owlion

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I was wondering about my MC and wording too.
I have a 12 year old MC, but she seems very capable, is that all right? she basically figures things out quite fast, is quite in control of herself and such (she does overlook things and make mistakes, but I was wondering if the MC needed to seem younger and frightened by things, or if a more 'adult' MC was okay).
Thanks :)
As long as you explain that she's had some kind of upbringing that means she's more inclined to be able to look after herself, it should be fine :)
 

Smish

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I was wondering about my MC and wording too.
I have a 12 year old MC, but she seems very capable, is that all right? she basically figures things out quite fast, is quite in control of herself and such (she does overlook things and make mistakes, but I was wondering if the MC needed to seem younger and frightened by things, or if a more 'adult' MC was okay).
Thanks :)

Kids come in all shapes and sizes. Some scare easily; others don't.

The best advice I can give anyone about writing for kids to read read read read read. Dozens of books. Hundreds of books. Thousands of books. Well, okay, you get the point. :D
 

timp67

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The Mysterious Benedict Society can teach anyone a thing or two about how smart a twelve-year-old can be. :)
 

seedling

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Thanks everyone! I don't want to "dumb down" but some of my beta readers (i.e. friends and relatives) have wondered if some of the vocabulary is too advanced. I like the idea of having challenging words so I think I'll keep them!

I enjoyed the Mysterious Benedict Society (although I couldn't get into the second book for some reason) and I'll check out Emma Jean Lazarus Fell Out of a Tree and Millicent Min, Girl Genius. Thanks again!
 
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timp67

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And let's not forget Mr. Penderwick is forever spouting UNTRANSLATED LATIN PHRASES at his daughters and MG readers have no problem with that, judging by the sales of the series. :)
 

Quentin Nokov

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I was wondering about my MC and wording too.
I have a 12 year old MC, but she seems very capable, is that all right? she basically figures things out quite fast, is quite in control of herself and such (she does overlook things and make mistakes, but I was wondering if the MC needed to seem younger and frightened by things, or if a more 'adult' MC was okay).
Thanks :)

You could always go to a seventh grade classroom and interview some kids and see how mature/immature they are. Lol. As for the vocabulary can you remember some of the words you've used?
 

Smish

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You could always go to a seventh grade classroom and interview some kids and see how mature/immature they are. Lol. As for the vocabulary can you remember some of the words you've used?

I honestly don't think it matters what individual words she's used. It's all about voice and context. If the voice is there, the character will come to life for the reader. And if the character comes to life for the reader, they'll keep reading, even if there's a word or two they don't know. And, sometimes, they'll even look up the definition. :yessmiley

For example, the first paragraph of Millicent Min, Girl Genius:

I have been accused of being anal retentive, an over-achiever, and a compulsive perfectionist, like those are bad things. My disposition probably has a lot to do with the fact that I am technically a genius. Unfortunately, this label seems to precede me where I go.
 

cara

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Thanks very much everyone :) My main concern was with the actions, as dialogue seems to be going well. However, I've added a few bits and pieces to show she makes mistakes and does get scared, but is a fighter not a runner. I can't really remember myself well at age 12, but nowadays kids seem even more capable than back then!
 

Smish

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Thanks very much everyone :) My main concern was with the actions, as dialogue seems to be going well. However, I've added a few bits and pieces to show she makes mistakes and does get scared, but is a fighter not a runner. I can't really remember myself well at age 12, but nowadays kids seem even more capable than back then!

Also remember your audience, cara. Adults (especially parents) often like to think of kids as weak and scared and silly. Adults want to feel needed. :)

But you're writing for kids. And kids don't think of themselves that way.

So, keep plugging along. Get those words on paper. :D
 

cara

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Thanks very much :) It's a kid's novel so I think the character will work! Great advice and I will keep at it!
 

Britwriter

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I don't think there is a great deal of difference in vocabulary between some MG and some YA. I am writing MG, but read both. After I'm done reading, I give some books to my MG daughters to read, but some I don't. It never has anything to do with vocabulary. It is content and themes that matter.
 

MsJudy

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At a certain point, vocabulary stops being related to age. If you read a lot of adult genre books--romance, thrillers, cozy mysteries--books that are meant to be read for pleasure, not for challenge--the vocabulary isn't much more advanced than you might find in upper MG. Most of a person's intense vocabulary acquisition happens while they're young.

Where it matters is that if you're using a lot of challenging vocabulary without a reason (like Millicent Min, who is a certified child prodigy/genius-type kid), then you're just making the book hard to read. Most kids don't go looking for books that are hard to read, so...

But they also don't like being talked down to. So if a big word suits the situation/character/voice/style, you're better off using it.
 

MJWare

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I know I'm a little late here. But I thought I'd add in my two cents on vocabulary. In SZJMB one of the characters is a pint-sized genius and he talks like it. I didn't worry about it too much, because you weren't really suppose to understand what he said and the other character softa translate for him when needed.
Turns out he's the most popular character by far.

Also, I have my MC use big words now and then (he's a smart kids who pretends not to be). I figured it wouldn't be an issue, because the reader can usually gather the meaning from the context.

Even though SZJMB was it suppose to be a reluctant reader, I haven't had any complaints about the vocabulary. In fact, I've had more younger readers than I expected (8+). So honestly, as long as the words fit the MC, I doubt I'll ever worry about vocab. again.

Now, it might be diffident if you write in the third person, or if you tend to have an advanced vocabulary. But, in the first person, if you can imagine your MC saying it, then it's probably fine.
 

canette

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Also remember your audience, cara. Adults (especially parents) often like to think of kids as weak and scared and silly. Adults want to feel needed. :)

But you're writing for kids. And kids don't think of themselves that way.

So, keep plugging along. Get those words on paper. :D

This is my first post, I think, after having skulked around here for months. Yay!
I wanted to pop in and say that I, too, thought my MG manuscript was YA. My MC was 16 years old, but I realized that I could make her 13 and keep virtually everything else exactly the same, and it would speak better to 11-13 year- olds.

And (big news! confetti!) I was offered representation by Jill Corcoran of Herman Agency this past weekend, who confirmed that low end YA and high end MG are VERY similar. She even suggested that I add a steamier kiss scene in mine. Woo-hoo!

So, thanks, everyone at the Water Cooler. I've had many questions in the past whose answers I found right here!

Good Luck, guys!
 

JoyMC

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Welcome, Canette! And congratulations! Jill Corcoran seems wonderful (on twitter, anyway). I hope you'll jump into our conversations here. Good luck as you get ready to go out on submission!
 

sissybaby

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Wonderful news, Canette. Congratulations! Hope you skulk around some more and add to the forums. We have a lot of fun around here.