#GamerGate

Myrealana said:

But, but...
ETHICS!

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I'm sure someone will try to argue that it's just free speech. And that would be hysterical.

This whole situation along with the volatile reactions towards any kind of conversation about social issues I have seen on many gaming forums (or comments on gaming sites) are a big reason I don't enjoy visiting or participating in (online) game communities.

Whenever I see a person post a thread (or game review or news article) that dares to critically think about anything dealing with social issues that concern feminists, POC, LGBTQA, etc, I wince and end up leaving or avoiding the thread, because I know (based on past gaming community experience) that the person will be flamed or bashed, and/or any interesting conversations will usually devolve into a cesspit of trolling and insulting/flaming with a big taste of ignorant/sexist/racist/homophobic/misogynistic flavours.

Nowadays, if a reviewer even has the faintest scent of trying to insert some social commentary, then the commenters will jump on that reviewer for "jumping on the feminist/social justice bandwagon". Like being for social justice or being aware of social issues is a bad new trend, lol! Seriously, I've seen this happen more than once recently. I would rather be a so-called "justice warrior" or, le gasp!, a "feminist" than be involved with such a hostile community as well as the (trolling aspects of) gamersgate. Belch!

Regarding this GG situation, I'm more concerned about the real-life human beings who are receiving death threats. Humans being threatened > gaming corruption.

Regarding journalism or corruption or whatever, I still don't really understand the issue. I'm a gamer; I just...play. I would look at user reviews, youtube gameplay videos, indie or niche websites, and/or try out demos, etc, and make up my own mind about what games I would like to play.

I see more reasonable and calm conversations and debates dealing with social issues from tv/movie sites such as the AV. Club (which deals with TV/Movies/Books/Music and sometimes Games), and from the fabulous Tom & Lorenzo blog (formerly known as "Project Rungay"), which offers fashion commentary with an occasional commentary on TV shows.

bunny-gypsy said:

Regarding journalism or corruption or whatever, I still don't really understand the issue. I'm a gamer; I just...play. I would look at user reviews, youtube gameplay videos, indie or niche websites, and/or try out demos, etc, and make up my own mind about what games I would like to play.

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Frankly, that's what I think those that are siding with Gamergate want too. They don't want serious criticism although game developers and the gamers have been crying for it.

The problem is that serious criticism is what makes the games more expansive. Serious criticism is what makes the games more realistic. Serious criticism is what makes the games more interactive. Serious criticism is what makes the games more immersive. In that end, serious criticism is more for the game developers and the ambitious auteurs. And the stuff that deals with discrimination is problematic for developers because there is often very personal decisions that they are making that precipitate the discrimination, resulting in them wanting to push away that serious criticism. And pushing away can mean drawing the attention of the fans towards the work and circling the wagons.

The most savage of the attacks (the doxxing, the death threats) are likely coming from within the industry (gaming or more broadly, high tech) and are most certainly not random but professional internet trolls. The idea that we can dismiss that these attacks are being done by random internet trolls is a greater con than any that the providers of social criticism of games can be accused of.

CQuinlan said:

And now someone has doxxed Felicia Day on the article where she spoke about how GG affected her.


I just...can't.

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Can you dox someone who isn't commenting anonymously? Isn't doxing when you find out who someone really is and expose them?

Not that I'm discounting the horror of harassing, threatening, and stalking people (and why does it seem to be disproportionately happening to the women who speak out on the issue if GG has nothing to do with sexism and misogyny in gaming) who express anti-GG sentiments publicly and openly either.

In this context, doxxing someone is referring publishng her address and contact information publically.

But yes, Doxxing also refers to outing an anonymous person with their real name.

I've heard about this but hadn't really looked into it until I saw the stuff about Felcia Day (who I love) and read Chris Kluwe's comments, which were awesome.

I'm still trying to figure out all of this and wrap my head around it, but it just...wow is all I can say.

Roxxsmom said:

Can you dox someone who isn't commenting anonymously? Isn't doxing when you find out who someone really is and expose them?

Not that I'm discounting the horror of harassing, threatening, and stalking people (and why does it seem to be disproportionately happening to the women who speak out on the issue if GG has nothing to do with sexism and misogyny in gaming) who express anti-GG sentiments publicly and openly either.

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Disproportionately?I thought this was happening EXCLUSIVELY to women. Has a man yet been doxxed in relation to GamerGate? If so, I obviously haven't heard.

I wonder why no one making threats hasn't been doxxed or otherwise identified (as in an arrest record).

benbradley said:

Disproportionately?I thought this was happening EXCLUSIVELY to women. Has a man yet been doxxed in relation to GamerGate? If so, I obviously haven't heard.

I wonder why no one making threats hasn't been doxxed or otherwise identified (as in an arrest record).

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I haven't heard either, though people keep claiming that it's happening on the other side too (presumably to male gamergaters). I haven't seen a concrete example or name given, however. But I know that as soon as I say it's only happening to women, someone will come up with a counter example and use that to discredit the whole notion that GG is about sexism.

Scalzi, Hines, Wendig and some of the other male authors who have been poking at GG certainly don't seem to be getting doxxed or stalked so far.

And that's something I've wondered about too. Evidently, it's child's play to find out who someone is on the web, even when they adopt a pseudonym, spoof their ip address, and otherwise take pains to hide their identity. There's nearly always someone who knows who a person "really" is. So indeed, why haven't they been able to "out" any of these harassers?

Chris Kluwe flat out challenged them to doxx him, he even said it wouldn't be that hard and they haven't done it yet.

But then, Kluwe is a former NFL player so there might be a shred of fear on their part

Bloo said:

Chris Kluwe flat out challenged them to doxx him, he even said it wouldn't be that hard and they haven't done it yet.

But then, Kluwe is a former NFL player so there might be a shred of fear on their part

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Or respect.

Nah, definitely fear. He has a penis, so odds are it's bigger than theirs.

For those who care about actual ethical issues in gaming, here is a list of actual ethical issues in gaming.

Albedo said:

For those who care about actual ethical issues in gaming, here is a list of actual ethical issues in gaming.

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Thank you for posting this. I had been hoping to find a similar breakdown.

In particular, if the large companies that make video games remain quiet, they risk allowing GamerGate to win the debate over whether diversity — of people, of ideas, of games themselves — has a place in their culture.

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The problem is that the large video game companies largely represent the status quo. By popular demand, they've begun to change and become more inclusive, little by little. But #GamerGate promises to reverse that trend.

The large video game companies are also where the real corruption is in gaming journalism, and #GamerGate has been all too happy to ignore them and focus on indie titles that have little-to-no influence on gaming as a whole.

The large gaming companies risk nothing by allowing #GamerGate to win. They will continue to appeal to their old core base of fans. By fighting #GamerGate, they take a risk of alienating hardcore #GamerGate gamers, but open themselves to much wider new markets, and the possibility of massive mainstream growth.

Albedo said:

For those who care about actual ethical issues in gaming, here is a list of actual ethical issues in gaming.

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I guess I'm confused by this. Is this suggesting that the mistreatment of women in an industry isn't a "real" ethical concern? Or something else? I feel like I'm not connecting some dots here. (Just asking, not poking a bear, I promise.)

CrastersBabies--From the article:

Women in games are routinely abused, bullied and harassed while their professional community, and the industry’s largest companies, tend to remain silent. Interrogating this culture or attempting to advance this conversation can result in censure or punishment.

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The article is not "suggesting that the mistreatment of women in an industry isn't a "real" ethical concern" It's stating that that *is* an ethical concern, along with all the other ethical concerns listed.

None of which ethical issues Gamergate is paying any attention to. The only thing they're doing is harrassing women and, to a lesser extent, some of the men standing up for women.

Gotcha, I missed that. I'm glad I asked! Thanks for clarifying.

Gamergate appears to be prompting more and more articles about online harassment and abuse. This is a "meta" article discussing the lost potential of the Internet due to such abuse, though substantial parts of it cover events discussed in this thread:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/michael...rassment-is-participatory-culture-in-trouble/

I just ran across this. Not quite sure what to make of it, but it's interesting.

https://medium.com/message/72-hours-of-gamergate-e00513f7cf5d