Archery in High Fantasy

[third person]

This guy¹ absolutely knows his shit when it comes to medieval weaponry²
A little on what he has to say about bows. Many more points in other videos³

[Oldbrasscat]

Originally Posted by third person

This guy¹ absolutely knows his shit when it comes to medieval weaponry²
A little on what he has to say about bows. Many more points in other videos³

oh, he is amazing! Good, if simplified physics, and just the proper amount of scorn to put it all in perspective.

Speaking to the snapping yourself with the string topic, my daughter did manage to snap herself on the chest this morning, but she was trying out my stance, which is a bit more side on than hers. Because her arms are shorter, but we are using the same bow, when I pull back, the string touches the left side of my left breast, but she pulls back to the middle of her chest. So, purple nurples are really a function of your arm length as compared to your draw length, as well as your stance. If you don't want body contact, keep the foot closest to the target back, so that your body is naturally twisted just a little towards the target.

As for accuracy, shooting slightly downwards, at about 30 ft, I can put 4 of 6 arrows in a 4 inch square target most of the time. But that's shooting in my front yard, at a paper raccoon tacked to a cardboard box, with no one shooting at me. YMMV.

[ClareGreen]

Just don't have someone stringing their longbow while lying down behind a log. It's not big, and it's not clever.

[fireluxlou]

Originally Posted by Emermouse

It cheeses me when writers have the slender or characters with more feminine traits use bows. I'm no expert on archery, but if we're talking medieval bows, there's a reason archeologists can tell archers' skeletons from other kinds of skeletons; it takes considerable muscle strength to pull back a medieval bowstring. Not to mention, using one is very aerobic exercise with the constant stringing and pulling and whatnot. So don't fall into the trap of having a waif-like character fight with a bow.

Yeah, probably should have stayed out of this thread but couldn't resist the opportunity to air a pet peeve.

Well in Wales they are called Welsh longbows and were used by women, there was even a Lady of a castle in Camathenshire,South Wales, in early medieval period, who defended her castle with a longbow against the Normans, she wasn't successful but she and her ladies fought, her husband was out on battle against the Normans. They were always fighting for land and independence from one another. Wales used to be made up of little kingdoms, run by its own royalties.

All noble lady's were trained with longbow as a hobby and sport and were very well trained and skilled archers in their own rights. When I was in school we used to do re-enactments of it as part of Welsh history. We were taught that the men would go out and kill the pheasants and the women would then play shoot it when it was brought home. They'd have contests with each other. It was entertainment more than anything.

Archery was a great tradition in Gwent, South Wales, practised by both sexes as observed by Gerald of Wales in his writings of Wales.

This is what I remember from Castle tours in Wales and Welsh History lessons

[Emermouse]

Yeah but chances are these Welsh women didn't look like waifs. They probably had arm muscles like you wouldn't believe.

[Tanydwr]

If it helps, according to an 'Old and Forgotten English' word-of-the-day type calendar I had last year, the index finger, or trigger-finger, was known as the shoot-finger in medieval times, precisely due to use of the bow. Might be a useful dialogue/prose element, particularly as your character is an archer.

However, you might want to confirm this. I'm no expert.

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by Trebor1415

True, but the English Longbow as used for war commonly had a draw weight of up to 100 pounds.

There are many kinds of bows and many forms of archery that do not involve the English longbow. Talks of archery and combat always end up rather European-centric, ne?

[Trebor1415]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

There are many kinds of bows and many forms of archery that do not involve the English longbow. Talks of archery and combat always end up rather European-centric, ne?

Good point. Do you have any info on the draw weight and strength requirements for "combat" style bows of any of the other cultures?

Another point to consider is whether the targets are armored or unarmored. If armor is not worn a much lighter bow can be effective where that same bow might be totally useless against a well armored opponenet.

[dirtsider]

Here are two links that might be of use to you:

www.tradnj.com - Traditional Archers of New Jersey: sounds more like bowhunting but also appears to have a forum section where you can ask questions

http://alleghenymtbows.com/ - Allegheny Mountain Bow Co.: looks like they make bows in the "traditional" manner. Another place to ask questions

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by Trebor1415

Good point. Do you have any info on the draw weight and strength requirements for "combat" style bows of any of the other cultures?

Another point to consider is whether the targets are armored or unarmored. If armor is not worn a much lighter bow can be effective where that same bow might be totally useless against a well armored opponenet.

It's difficult to find good sources, but it seems the Japanese yumi typically ranged from 30-90lbs draw weight. It was also designed asymmetrically to be drawn while standing, kneeling, or on horseback. Combat was typically done at shorter distances. Enemies were often armored, but with lighter armor than European counterparts.

[Oldbrasscat]

I use a recurve with a 30 lb draw, because I don't shoot often enough to be in good enough shape to shoot a heavier one. The men usually use something closer to 50 lb if they aren't shooting regularly. A bigger person can use a heavier bow, so if I ever get back to shooting every day, I probably won't get up to much more than 50 lbs pull, being somewhat petite.

My husband is 5'10 and finds my bow a cute little toy.He would probably use something with a 60 lb pull, in his current state of physical fitness. If he were to shoot regularly, he would most certainly move up to a 70 lb bow, or even to go to an 80 lb pull.

I'm very jealous.

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by Oldbrasscat

I use a recurve with a 30 lb draw, because I don't shoot often enough to be in good enough shape to shoot a heavier one. The men usually use something closer to 50 lb if they aren't shooting regularly. A bigger person can use a heavier bow, so if I ever get back to shooting every day, I probably won't get up to much more than 50 lbs pull, being somewhat petite.

My husband is 5'10 and finds my bow a cute little toy.He would probably use something with a 60 lb pull, in his current state of physical fitness. If he were to shoot regularly, he would most certainly move up to a 70 lb bow, or even to go to an 80 lb pull.

I'm very jealous.

Does being able to use a bow with a greater draw weight offer any advantage in this day and age other than bragging rights? I would assume accuracy would be more important. Honest question, I've not done archery in an organized setting, but I'd be interested in beginning kyuudo if only there were a dojo anywhere near.

[Trebor1415]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

Does being able to use a bow with a greater draw weight offer any advantage in this day and age other than bragging rights? I would assume accuracy would be more important. Honest question, I've not done archery in an organized setting, but I'd be interested in beginning kyuudo if only there were a dojo anywhere near.

You generally want a heavier draw weight for hunting.

For target shooting, you can get a bit flatter trajectory with a heavier bow. This is especially true as the range increases. For close range, say up to 20 yards or so, there's not much difference between a 30 and 50 pound bow in terms of accuracy or perceived trajectory. Now, if you need penetration, like for hunting, then the heavier bow will be better, even at close range.

If you are shooting at 50 + yards I've noticed the flatter trajectory of a heavier bow reduces the amount of hold over you have to do on the target and makes it a bit easier then with a lighter draw weight.

[BDSEmpire]

I got to shoot my neighbor's hunting bow once. It was a compound bow with some ridiculous draw weight that then multiplied due to those lovely pulleys and extra strings. When you get the string pulled back past the "break" you suddenly feel the tension shift and what was a heavy, hard pull is now resting fairly easily in your hands. Except, you know for a fact that there is a TON of energy pent up in that chunk of metal and plastic and if you aren't especially careful then you'll tear your forearm off or worse, send the arrow somewhere undesirable.

I hit my target, a haybale of ill-repute, and got to see that bladed arrow power right through that chunk of compressed matter into and through the back fence until it clattered to a stop in the alleyway behind where we were shooting.

I've shot regular bows plenty of times and prefer the lighter draw weights because the heavier ones are much rougher on your fingers. Besides, these are vicious haybales I'm taking out (or the grasslands behind them, or sometimes a passing cloud if the arrow hits the ground and skips) not some woodland animal. If I were to hunt with this stuff I'd definitely want a lot more power behind my shot.

Hahaha here's an image for you - picture an arrow hitting the ground at speed out towards your target and then hitting a bit of a ramp in the dirt or grass and ZOOMing back up into the air until gravity finally brings it down. There can be a lot of excitement with archery, especially of the unintentional kind.