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Successfully Self Publishing Erotica

Thread starter JJMoon
Start date Dec 28, 2013

JJMoon

Banned

Flounced

Dec 28, 2013

#1

Hello all,

I've been writing erotica for the past month now. I was working as a screenwriter before. I've sold three scripts and two of my scripts have been produced but it's still not quite enough to pay the bills.

My boyfriend and I have been really tight for money lately and after reading a series of postings on various websites (most importantly, AMAs on Reddit) about the financial potential in erotica, I decided to try it out.

I've written four 10,000-13,000 word novelettes and posted them on Smashwords, Amazon Kindle, Barnes and Nobel, etc. I'm almost done the fifth now, but I'm starting to become discouraged. I need some serious, real information before I go any further with this, as I've already spent one out of my eight months on this.

On Amazon, I haven't sold one single copy of any book. Which blows my mind, because from what I read, that is where I should be seeing almost 100% of my sales. B&N is the same. The only place I've seen a sale is Smashwords, and even there I've only sold 1-2 copies of each book. And after they've sold 1-2 copies and have been up for more than 4 hours, they seem to freeze and just never see any action again.

When I got into this, I read many posts from people claiming to make 1000$-10,000$ a month on self-publishing erotica. I can even go back and find the Q&As they've done, and other websites. Not that I'm expecting to make 1000$ per month out of the gate, I should be making more than 10$ a month with four books. The numbers just don't add up.

While I don't mind writing erotica, it's not my ideal writing gig. I'm sacrificing time spent on my screenwriting career to do this which is less than ideal, but it is what it is. I need a little bit of extra cash right now. Even just 300$ extra a month would help tremendously.

So please, someone tell me what I'm doing wrong. I will be more than happy to send you copies of the books so you can diagnose the problem. I'm okay with sticking it out for a few months with no return if that's what I need to do, but I need some sort of affirmation that doing that is going to pay off.

Here is my US Amazon Author Page:
Link

Here is the Smashword author page:
Link

I hope this doesn't come off as some desperate plug, because it isn't. I'm actually genuinely desperate to know what I'm doing wrong here.

Thanks!

__________________
Nikki Crescent | Erotic Romance Author

Facebook | Twitter | Amazon | Smashwords

Last edited: Feb 12, 2014

Oldbrasscat

Making stuff up...or maybe sleeping

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#2

Hi, JJ, welcome to the forum. Have you read the Newbie's Guide yet?

Looking at your covers, two of them are fine, but two of them don't look like erotica at all, in thumbnail, anyway. The Christmas one looks like a fun little romp, the other is okay, but doesn't create any sense of tension in me.

The other thing I noticed is that you didn't mention doing any promotion at all: blog tours, giveaways, etc. There's lots of free things you can do to get the word out there and it does make a difference. I doubt anyone would have noticed me if I hadn't flogged

D) the stuffing out of my first three releases and I'm with a publisher with a built-in audience.

As for what sales you can expect, I have no experience with pure erotica. I write MM erotic romance and, while my sales are respectable, I've got a ways to go to make $1000 a month. Writing is a slow business--for most of us, if not all, the money is in the backlist. Those people you mentioned who are making all that money? They didn't start off making that kind of income. They built up their following, they promoted, and they produced regularly to keep their name in front of readers. How many books do they have out, compared to you?

It can be done, but it's not quick fix. I can't really say if you'd make better money screenwriting, but maybe you can do both? And there are some self-pubbers around, plus there's a forum here dedicated to self-pubbing. Why not check it out and see what other people are doing?

Hope this helps.

Parametric

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#3

OK, two thoughts.

The covers are not consistently saying erotica to me. For example, the One Full Moon cover predominantly shows me ominous animal eyes and a night sky, which leaves me thinking urban fantasy. Compare that to the Santa Claus cover, which is more of a classic erotica cover.

I looked at a sample and the work does not appear to be proofread - not a criticism, just an observation. The dialogue punctuation is wrong, apostrophes are misused, words are missing. Quick example:

I took my shot from the line sunk the ball.
"Lucky shot." She said.

I took my shot from the line and sank the ball.
"Lucky shot," she said.

Proofreading errors are a killer. Readers are afraid when they see this that a book won't be good quality. Just some quick feedback.

Marian Perera

starting over

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#4

Parametric said:
I looked at a sample and the work does not appear to be proofread - not a criticism, just an observation. The dialogue punctuation is wrong, apostrophes are misused, words are missing.

Agreed. I checked out Rich Fantasies and read up till the end of the free sample. It's not something I would have bought, for a few reasons:

1. Of the 10 sentences in the opening paragraphs, seven start with "I". That gives the narrative a repetitive feel - I did this. I did that. I did something else.

2. The start is very slow-moving. Why do I need to know that when she needed more potatoes, she opened the cupboard where she kept bread and potatoes, and then scanned from left to right? Would it make any difference if she studied the cupboard's contents from right to left?

This is erotica. I want sex or at least sexual tension. I don't want to read about how the main character peeled potatoes with a knife, put the skins in a wastebasket and put the potatoes in a large bowl along with beets, half a head of cabbage and a long carrot (which was really the sexiest thing in the sample). In the first two chapters she didn't even meet a man.

3. I'm all for characters who have money problems, which is why I picked this particular novelette. But if she's that poor, why is she wasting the potato skins?

4. As Parametric said, the dialogue punctuation is often wrong.

Hope this helps.

Last edited: Dec 28, 2013

Rina Evans

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#5

Queen of Swords said:
Agreed. I checked out Rich Fantasies and read up till the end of the free sample. It's not something I would have bought, for a few reasons:

1. Of the 10 sentences in the opening paragraphs, seven start with "I". That gives the narrative a repetitive feel - I did this. I did that. I did something else.

2. The start is very slow-moving. Why do I need to know that when she needed more potatoes, she opened the cupboard where she kept bread and potatoes, and then scanned from left to right? Would it make any difference if she studied the cupboard's contents from right to left?

This is erotica. I want sex or at least sexual tension. I don't want to read about how the main character peeled potatoes with a knife, put the skins in a wastebasket and put the potatoes in a large bowl along with beets, half a head of cabbage and a long carrot (which was really the sexiest thing in the sample). In the first two chapters she didn't even meet a man.

3. I'm all for characters who have money problems, which is why I picked this particular novelette. But if she's that poor, why is she wasting the potato skins?

4. As Parametric said, the dialogue punctuation is often wrong.

Hope this helps.

Hey, maybe she doesn't eat the skins. I don't know anyone who eats them here, no matter how poor. I didn't even know it was a thing until a couple years ago

That said, selling erotica isn't going to be a get rich quick scheme. You still need to put out quality product. Polished, proofread, decent covers, promo. Not only that, but also engaging stories. Erotica is widely read, but selling it is just like selling other books.

slhuang

Inappropriately math-oriented.

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#6

1. Dittoing what other people have said about covers and proofreading.

2. $2.99 is, in my experience, quite expensive for a 10K novella. I believe people usually price those in the 99c range.

3. You said:

JJMoon said:
While I don't mind writing erotica, it's not my ideal writing gig.

which suggests to me (and please forgive me if I'm wrong) that you are not generally an erotica writer/reader and that you may not have done research on the genre conventions and what erotica readers like and expect.

4. Related to #3, I suspect you also may not be part of the erotica reader/writer community, and as such part of the problem may be as simple as people not knowing your books are out there. We always say here that the best form of promotion is writing your next book, but that's not going to help if no one knew about your first one.

Stop by the self-publishing forum here and take a look at some of the diaries. Self-publishers do a lot other than just write books and stick them on Amazon. Most self-publishers here find that they do better if they do their damnedest to make the editing and cover art stellar. And then they promote, they experiment with pricing, they experiment with giveaways / programs like Select, they ferret out what advertising might be useful (Bookbub seems to be far and away the one that gives the best return), they solicit reviews, and they write and KEEP writing as they gain a following, over (and I don't mean this to sound condescending) a much longer period than a month and four novellas. I would bet that the vast majority of erotica self-publishing success stories you've seen (unless erotica is much more vastly different from other SP genres than I'm aware) worked very hard to build up that initial following.

Erotica is an easier market to SP in than others. But the stories of people putting an erotic novel on Amazon and suddenly being able to pay off their mortgage are still outliers.

Oh, and welcome to AW! :welcome:

:welcome:

Marian Perera

starting over

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#7

Rina Evans said:
Hey, maybe she doesn't eat the skins. I don't know anyone who eats them here, no matter how poor. I didn't even know it was a thing until a couple years ago

Point taken. Though that's another sign of the novella not holding my attention - if the story is intriguing or hot or fast-paced, I'll likely be too caught up in it to wonder about tiny details like potato skins. Since nothing much is happening, though...

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#8

Just to underscore what others have been saying: quality and promotion help. I read some of your samples, and noticed the same issues mentioned above. Very few people are going to be making $1K a month from erotic fiction when they're starting out. A menial service or sales job at minimum wage pays better than that.

Do this because you love doing it, and/or you are good at it. You'll have a better chance at decent royalties then. But be aware that it could take a lot longer than eight months. Most of the writers I know went full time at it a few years after they started. They had a year's worth of money in the bank, or more. Many of them keep day or freelance jobs, to be safe.

Edited To Add: be careful on prices. I've seen some research showing $.99 sales help, but a permanent $.99 price point can contribute to the perception of low quality.

Last edited: Dec 28, 2013

slhuang

Inappropriately math-oriented.

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#9

Filigree said:
Edited To Add: be careful on prices. I've seen some research showing $.99 sales help, but a permanent $.99 price point can contribute to the perception of low quality.

Even for works this short? John Scalzi recently did 6K-22K word "episodes" for The Human Division, being published by Tor, and each one was sold individually for 99c (and some people complained about the 99c price tag being too high on the shorter ones!). For full novels, though, I'd agree that 99c might "feel" too low to people.

Hmm . . .

Either way, though, I totally agree that you should be willing to experiment with your prices and see what works.

Parametric

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#10

This is subjective of course, but I personally would never drop below $2.99 in erotica, no matter how short the work. The cut in royalties is too great. At 99 cents, you'd have to sell six times as many copies just to make the same income. The people who won't buy at $2.99 aren't the target market for your business model. Your challenge is to find the people who will.

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#11

I am getting ready to self-pub a mild fantasy romance in a month or so. All market research I've followed indicates $2.99 is a good price to start for a 16K novella in the genre. Anything less isn't cost efficient. I am not Scalzi or any other 'name' author with millions of hits on my blogs or other social media outlets. I'm just doing this as experimental publicity for an eventual big fantasy series my agent and I might aim at the Big Five imprints.

slhuang

Inappropriately math-oriented.

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#12

Filigree said:
I am getting ready to self-pub a mild fantasy romance in a month or so. All market research I've followed indicates $2.99 is a good price to start for a 16K novella in the genre. Anything less isn't cost efficient. I am not Scalzi or any other 'name' author with millions of hits on my blogs or other social media outlets. I'm just doing this as experimental publicity for an eventual big fantasy series my agent and I might aim at the Big Five imprints.

Interesting! Okay, I stand corrected.

Good to know!

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#13

Also, since Parametric didn't do it, I'm going to link the post to her thread on her pricing and sales strategy. I'm not even considering SP, but I found that thread fascinating and enlightening from the POV of the focus on the BUSINESS side of writing--or where the money comes from.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281864

veinglory

volitare nequeo

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Dec 28, 2013

#14

Yes there are people making thousands a month writing erotica. From what I see they tend do three things.

1) Push buttons. The fiction works specific tropes with a dedicated following and the cover makes it very clear which ones. Once they find a good button (or maybe a few, under different names), they keep pushing it, not writing a whole lot of completely different stuff.

2) Immediate hook, and often a cliffhanger. On the first page you can see what you are getting. For serial stories it ends on a 'I must see what happens next' moment.

3) Volume. A book a week for shorter work.

I would add that they also seem to enjoy it, and not be doing it grudgingly just because they want my money. They may be faking it, but if so they are faking it well which is really all that matters.

Last edited: Dec 28, 2013

Marian Perera

starting over

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Dec 28, 2013

#15

veinglory said:
I would add that they also seem to enjoy it, and not be doing it grudgingly just because they want my money. They may be faking it, but if so they are faking it well which is really all that matters.

Agreed. If I read an interview or an article or a blog post by a new author, and that author is passionate about her genre, it's going to positively predispose me towards her work more than if she says, "This genre isn't my ideal kind of writing, but I gotta pay the bills somehow."

If the work was a chore for her to write, it's probably going to be a chore for me to read as well. I'm sure you would be more diplomatic towards an audience of potential buyers, but you might want to be careful that your lack of real enthusiasm for erotica doesn't come across to your readers.

Last edited: Dec 28, 2013

JJMoon

Banned

Flounced

Dec 28, 2013

#16

It's not that I don't enjoy writing the material, otherwise I wouldn't have had the patience to write five of them so far. I do have a lot of fun writing it, usually. Some days feel rather tedious, but most days I enjoy it. It's just hard for it to not feel like a chore when you are pushing yourself towards ambitious deadlines and then seeing very little of a result.

I'm very sorry about the errors-- I actually thought I'd gone through and fixed them. The example you gave was my first book, which I put out more as an experiment in learning the whole process. The others are far more polished. There's not really an excuse for errors in a product. As for the dialogue punctuation, that's just my inexperience with prose. Screenwriting is a very analytical format, and I'm still working on expanding myself out of it.

Thanks for the advice on the covers. I will actually go and change the covers for Family Ties and One Full Moon. They were the first two that I did, and I've noticed an increase in downloads (not necessarily sales) with the more traditional erotica covers.

And finally, as for the content being slow-- This is something that I've sort of struggled with in all my writing. The films that I've written have all been criticized as too slow, or too long of a first act. It's a challenge for me, because my own values as a writer tell me to spend more time establishing tone and character before getting into any action. I have a very hard time caring about a sex scene when I barely know the characters. I have a very hard time making characters unnaturally horny; I like for them to have motivation to want to have sex.

I write horror scripts mostly, and I'm a firm believer in not having any 'scares' within the first 25 minutes, because no one cares yet about the characters who is the subject of the scare. I turn movies off that start killing off characters within 10 seconds of introducing them. That's part of the reason why I write novelettes that are 10,000-13,000 words, and not 3000-5000 words, which seems to be the norm with erotica.

I dropped my Amazon prices down to 0.99, which is pretty significant seeing as now I only get a 35% royalty rather than a 75% one. But 35% of 0.99 is better than 75% of 0.00 so hopefully that works out. I would love to do giveaways and blog tours (not sure what that is, to be honest) but I don't know where to start with that. I have sent copies out to bloggers and reviewers but am yet to hear back.

I'll keep on the grind. One writer told me that they started seeing good sales after their 15th book, so I'll come back and complain again once I've reached that point.

__________________
Nikki Crescent | Erotic Romance Author

Facebook | Twitter | Amazon | Smashwords

Last edited: Jan 18, 2014

veinglory

volitare nequeo

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Dec 28, 2013

#17

Short erotica does not tend to be slow build. They are paying for a small number of pages and they want them all to be hot hot hot. In fact a common style is to not over-detail the characters to allow the reader to just 'slot themselves in' to the action.

Marian Perera

starting over

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Dec 28, 2013

#18

JJMoon said:
And finally, as for the content being slow-- This is something that I've sort of struggled with in all my writing. The films that I've written have all been criticized as too slow, or too long of a first act. It's a challenge for me, because my own values as a writer tell me to spend more time establishing tone and character before getting into any action. I have a very hard time caring about a sex scene when I barely know the characters. I have a very hard time making characters unnaturally horny; I like for them to have motivation to want to have sex.

I also like to see sex between people I know, especially after the tension and anticipation are built up at least a little. Rather than, you know, feeling like a voyeur as I watch strangers copulate.

But at the same time, when I pick up a novelette that's erotica, if I read two chapters and the heroine hasn't even met a man yet, something's off. If she'd met the hero or heroes or whoever, and there was flirting or conflict or something besides vegetable-peeling going on, that would be different.

Just glancing over my shelves... no erotica paperbacks, but in all but one romance I have that's a keeper, the hero and heroine either meet in Chapter 1 or appear in Chapter 1 in separate scenes. And those are romance novels, where you'd think the author has more room to play around in. In an erotica novelette, IMO, it's all the more important to get the ball rolling fast (though without skimping out on characterization).

ETA : But listen to veinglory, because I think she's got a lot more experience with erotica than I do.

Last edited: Dec 28, 2013

Fruitbat

.

Kind Benefactor

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Dec 28, 2013

#19

This is very general, but if I wanted to write things I wasn't all that interested in for pay, I'd look toward (non-memoir) nonfiction.

Parametric

Super Member

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Dec 28, 2013

#20

ElaineA said:
Also, since Parametric didn't do it, I'm going to link the post to her thread on her pricing and sales strategy. I'm not even considering SP, but I found that thread fascinating and enlightening from the POV of the focus on the BUSINESS side of writing--or where the money comes from.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281864

Thanks, Elaine. I didn't want to link my own diary in case it seemed like I was passing myself off as an expert, which I'm certainly not!

I have to admit that somewhat like JJ, I'm primarily motivated by profit. I enjoy the erotic romance subgenre I write in, but this is a business for me and if my work wasn't selling, I wouldn't continue writing on this scale. I know this isn't a popular viewpoint. Sorry, erotica readers! I still put love and effort into my work. I just really need to keep the lights on.

JJMoon said:
And finally, as for the content being slow [...] It's a challenge for me, because my own values as a writer tell me to spend more time establishing tone and character before getting into any action. I have a very hard time caring about a sex scene when I barely know the characters.

I'm with you in that as a reader, I typically need time for the sexual tension to build before the characters hook up, and that's also what I write, even with short fiction (although I'd describe mine as erotic romance rather than erotica). I just finished a short story series where the characters don't have full sex until the fourth of seven instalments. But looking back, in every series I wrote the characters meet immediately, on the first page, and the spark of chemistry is there immediately. That establishes the parameters of the series from the start. Then each instalment contains an increasing level of emotional and sexual intimacy, even if they don't go all the way until later. I really think it's important that the characters meet immediately and they spark off each other immediately. Their interaction is the story - without their interaction, there is no story. But that is subjective of course.

JJMoon said:
I'll keep on the grind. One writer told me that they started seeing good sales after their 15th book, so I'll come back and complain again once I've reached that point.

I hope it won't take that long, but I wouldn't draw conclusions about your success for several months, at least. One month is definitely not enough. Wishing you lots of success.

Last edited: Dec 28, 2013

KimJo

Outside the box, with the werewolves

Super Member

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Dec 28, 2013

#21

I generally write erotic romance rather than erotica, but I've done some erotica. Usually, unless it's intended as a one-night stand type of story, I establish at the beginning that the participants already know each other. The story may be one occurrence in an established relationship, or a "hey, we're friends, let's screw" type of thing, or co-workers, or... you get the idea.

That allows me to avoid feeling the need for a slow build and to just dive into the sex.

Pushingfordream

Writing about life!

Super Member

Registered

Dec 28, 2013

#22

Welcome to AW!

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus

Super Member

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Dec 28, 2013

#23

JJMoon said:
I've written four 10,000-13,000 word novelettes and posted them on Smashwords, Amazon Kindle, Barnes and Nobel, etc. I'm almost done the fifth now, but I'm starting to become discouraged.

I've had a novel on Smashwords for nearly five years, and sold one copy. Most of my sales have been through my publisher. The secret isn't the publisher, it's the promotion. People won't buy your books if they're lost in a vast sea of drivel, and most of what's on Smashwords and Amazon Kindle is drivel.

Hints: Facebook page for each book, or for your writer's name (use a pseudonym if you have to). Website. Blog. Assume a persona consistent with your stories. Participate in forums and put a link to your books in the sig line. Don't limit yourself to writers' forums, but go to places that appeal to people with the same kinks as your stories.

Finally, there are some useful books on marketing, but it's a fast changing field that needs regular attention.

JJMoon

Banned

Flounced

Dec 28, 2013

#24

I'm really not just in it for the money. If that was the case, I would go back into Graphic design, which I worked in years ago. I enjoy writing and writing erotica is still writing. I suppose my stuff would be considered Erotic Romance as well.

I'm working on the promotion thing as well. I've set up some Social Media pages and now I'm working towards building a bit of a fan base. I have no idea how to really start, but I'm hoping I catch on fairly quickly. I'd be happy to get some feedback on improving these as well--

My Facebook

My Twitter

Thanks guys and gals!

__________________
Nikki Crescent | Erotic Romance Author

Facebook | Twitter | Amazon | Smashwords

Last edited: Feb 12, 2014

Deleted member 42

Dec 28, 2013

#25

You might find the Book Promotion forum helpful.

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