Entangled Publishing

Le Mole · Sep 5, 2014

I'm about to paste a message an Entangled author sent to me earlier, who is terrified of posting even anonymously on this forum. I wish I could say her story was unique but it is not. Before I press the paste button though, I would just like to add that not all publishers are bad. As has already been discussed on this thread, they all have their weaknesses and bad points (bad communication being the main sticking point), and as authors there's a lot we just have to 'suck up' and get on with. Do your research, speak to other authors in their stables (try and speak to a handful if you can from each) and then make your decisions accordingly. Agents can also be worth their weight in gold but a bad one can be detrimental - again, do your research. Whatever you do though, treat Entangled extremely warily. As another poster has already stated, they sell you the dream but the reality is a nightmare.

Here's the message:

I am going to jump in about my experience with Entangled, mostly because I wanted to speak out about it for a long time.
Entangled has been the worst experience I've ever had writing. I've have also dealt with or have known other Entangled authors deal with moving and unpredictable release dates, shoddy publicity (due to publicist turnover), unreliable editors (due to editor turnover), royalty mishaps, shameless manipulation, general disregard for authors and their hard work, openly shit talking about Entangled authors by Entangled editors at conventions, misplaced work, personal/professional/legal threats, and much more (sadly).

I am published with one of the big publishers as well, and while Entangled started off with its intentions in the right places, it quickly fell apart. We all had so much faith and stock in Entangled, and then to be told that the authors were abusing the Entangled staff and that WE were the reason why they were dropping off like flies, well, I think that is what ended up driving a lot of us away. We weren't abusing anyone; we were looking for answers.

Entangled has a lot of fences to mend. With every passing convention, more stories come out about the people up high spewing out personal information about other authors, bragging about sales numbers, and generally being unprofessional. Go ahead and ask how many agents stopped working with them all together because the organisation become so unprofessional.

I am glad someone started to speak up about Entangled. We've been scared into silence, and it shouldn't be that way. It sucks to watch so many other hopeful, hardworking authors head down the same road and not be able to say anything about it.

Be careful to where you sub. I'm sure there are plenty of authors who have had a good time with Entangled, but I'm also more than sure there are plenty out there who haven't and can't say anything for fear of retaliation.

Fed Up Writer · Sep 5, 2014

I think it's heartbreaking to see a reply from another demoralised Entangled author. Even more heartbreaking that she feels she has to hide her voice. Tells you everything really.

For the other commenters out there who have books ready to go, just to highlight to you that Brenda Drake is doing another #pitmad on Twitter on September 9. If you have a book ready why not try?

We all have the same dream of writing and being published.

romancewriter · Sep 5, 2014

I've heard many editors on Twitters complain about unprofessional writers, without naming names of course. Things like bad mouthing other authors to make their work seem superior, not following through on requests are a couple of the things mentioned. And I always thought it was a bit unfair that we writers can't voice similar concerns about unprofessional editors for fear of being outed in the industry.

junierob · Sep 5, 2014

If the editors at Entangled are only compensated with royalties, it's no wonder they're unresponsive. That has to be a terrible way to work. Not saying that excuses bad behavior, but you do get what you pay for.

girlyswot · Sep 5, 2014

junierob said:
If the editors at Entangled are only compensated with royalties, it's no wonder they're unresponsive. That has to be a terrible way to work. Not saying that excuses bad behavior, but you do get what you pay for.

They did change over to a salaried system. Maybe a year ago? Not sure.

AprilA · Sep 5, 2014

I just wanted to add that I've had some terrific experiences at my other pubs and have been really pleased with sales. There are still nurturing editors. There are still publicists who will go the extra mile. Your books can still sell thousands. There IS light at the end of the tunnel.

romancewriter · Sep 5, 2014

Several people have mentioned that have done well with other publishers. Is it possible someone can actually mention who these other publishers are?

SueBee · Sep 5, 2014

romancewriter said:
Several people have mentioned that have done well with other publishers. Is it possible someone can actually mention who these other publishers are?

I was curious about the same thing.

APolar · Sep 6, 2014

Rats! I thought I'd come out here and find this long list of golden possibilities, but it seems to be a bit shy. So I, who really knows nothing past submission and being asked to submit fulls, will contribute this: Wild Rose, who has a different MS from Entangled, has been AWESOME to date. They have given me time frames and delivered every single time. Am supposed to have a final answer from them by September 30th and I'm pretty sure they will be true to their word. And they are very kind. Kindness, to me after years of disregard, is priceless. Omnific Publishing, who has yet another requested full, has also been very reliable, prompt and kind. Sorry, I can contribute no more, which sadly after 10 years in the trenches, you would think I could.

S.C. Wynne · Sep 6, 2014

Loose Id, is a great publisher to work with.

Filigree · Sep 6, 2014

Another vote for Loose Id, at risk of going off topic.

Their staff has been in constant contact whenever I had a question or problem, their timetables were both dizzying and efficient, and their editors have been incredibly skilled. Some covers have been better than others, but I've noticed a definite improvement over the years over all covers. The company has a rep for very explicit, hot romances - but not at the expense of great plots. (Many of the favorite ebooks in my collection are from fellow LI authors.) All departments seem to talk to each other. Marketing is prompt and relentless at getting reviews, and the company seems generally well-received in the industry. My sales have been better than I expected.

The author community is wonderful.

The industry changes on a dime these days. I'm looking at either a Big Five imprint or self-publishing a mild fantasy romance, just to try other venues. But Loose Id has been a great fit for my debut, and I plan to stick with them.

KimJo · Sep 7, 2014

I submitted a novel to Entangled last fall, because it didn't have enough romance--or sexual content--to fit any of the publishers I was already with.

They gave me an R&R and said I had to wait six months before resubmitting. That was fine.

But after the six months passed, I took a closer look at what they wanted me to do with the book. I would have had to completely rewrite it from scratch to address what they wanted "fixed", and even at that, there were a couple of things they told me to change that I didn't even understand. So I decided not to go with it. While I agree with a couple of things they mentioned, I can't agree with rewriting an entire book which still might not be accepted. And there were a couple of things they asked for that I did *not* agree with.

So I'm back to the drawing board with that one, which is a paranormal with romantic elements. But from the sounds of this thread, I might be better off even if it never sees the light of day. (Self-pubbing isn't really an option for me; I don't have funds to even buy a decent cover, let alone any of the other things that go into self-pubbing.)

LeaveMeBroken · Sep 8, 2014

Hi folks,

Liz Pelletier, Entangled's publisher, doesn't have an AW account, so she asked me to post this on behalf of all of us. Hopefully it addresses the concerns and questions brought up in the past few days!

Hello everyone,

First and foremost, you’re absolutely right. We’re a young company and grew much faster than we dreamed possible. The learning curve has been steep, so any time something is pointed out, we do everything in our power to fix it. We welcome feedback and need it. It’s the only way to build a better company. I've always said my door is open, so please feel welcome to email me directly if you're having an issue.

I’d like to address several of the issues in the anonymous letters from our authors.

The information I shared about editors leaving because of abuse was true, and not at all related to how we paid our staff at the time. In fact, the editor in question was one of our highest paid editors. The “abuse” I was speaking of wasn’t the regular emails you’d expect to receive in a professional capacity. They were threatening, personal, and offensive. If the editor didn’t respond within half an hour, these authors took to social media, or called the editor’s home to interrogate family members. As soon as we found out, we addressed the authors involved directly and accepted the editor’s request to take a different role within the company. We handled subsequent issues with abuse the same way.

That said, there has been turnover related to pay. Some genres sell better than others, and once it became clear that some of our editors preferred to edit on imprints that didn’t sell well, we knew we had to address our royalty-based pay system. As of July, all of our staff is paid a salary or flat fee on projects. We’ve not had any turnover since.

Regarding release schedules… It’s no secret that Entangled is staffed by perfectionists. Quality is something Entangled is known for, but more importantly, we want our authors to be received positively by readers. That said, to keep a schedule as fast as ours, books have to be edited well and on time. As someone pointed out, several of our former editors were using Entangled as a stepping stone. Quality and timeliness were not top priority. The authors suffered. Entangled suffered. I take full responsibility for the fact that I was too far removed from the problem to fix it until this past February. We’ve since parted ways with several editors, and implemented a new process to oversee all editorial phases from a top-down view. We’ve also brought on new, more experienced editors. Quality has already risen, and we’re quite excited about the change. Release schedules are returning to normal as a result.

There have only been two authors I’ve threatened to sue. Both with cause.

As for unprofessional behavior, I apologize. We have a lot of friends in the industry, so when we shared our frustrations and triumphs with these individuals, we believed we were doing so as friends. We’ve since learned that this isn’t the case, and is another issue we’ve addressed in recent months. Also, and I fully own this, I completely lack a filter. I say what I’m thinking and I mean what I say, but I don’t say anything I wouldn’t and haven’t said to an individual directly. My candor is both my biggest strength and my greatest weakness, and a trait that I struggle with daily. There has never been any retaliation for speaking out, and even when relations are strained, I believe in continuing to support an author’s career. In fact, a few months ago, when asked, I put one of our titles on sale to support an author’s newly releasing higher-priced self-pub titles, even though this author is one whom we’d had a falling-out with the previous year.

Communication is by far our biggest challenge. With how rapidly we grew, building an infrastructure to support the thousands of emails we receive each week and respond to all in a timely manner while still editing and running the company has been a struggle. This summer unveiled our new communication management system that our authors can use to track questions and receive responses from all of the staff at once, rather than trying to hunt down the best point of contact. This system, hosted by Groove, tracks, escalates, and flags emails so no communication can ever be dropped, and so far everyone seems to already feel the positive effects.

We're also constantly working to improve our submission process. The first step was Submittable and that has been a lifesaver! But with the volume of submissions we receive, we don’t have a large-enough editorial staff to handle things the way we’d like to. When we first formed Entangled, my two biggest complaints about the submission process was that authors were left languishing for months (or years!), and that there was no way to know if anyone actually read their book before the author was sent a form rejection. While our response time is not infallible, the majority of submissions receive a response within sixty days. We also have a huge team of interns who read every submission (minus books that clearly do not fit our guidelines) and write up a report. When an author submits to Entangled, they can at least be assured that someone read their book before making a decision. Is this system perfect? Of course not. But we feel we’ve at least tried to give every author a chance, and in a timely manner.

Please bear in mind, we are a huge company, we are a virtual company, and we are a very young company. We are going to make mistakes. Balls are going to get dropped occasionally and people are going to be unhappy from time to time. As the publisher, responsibility ultimately falls back to me, so I take all feedback seriously and appreciate these authors’ willingness to speak out. I don’t measure our success based upon how many authors we have (more than 500) versus how many would never work with us again (a small fraction of that number), but on how hard we work to learn from our mistakes and continue to evolve into the company I know we all can be proud of.

If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer, as always. Liz is known for her tomes, but let me know if we missed anything!

Jennywrites · Sep 8, 2014

I had a request for a full from Entangled 17 months ago. I never heard back, finally gave up and submitted elsewhere. My book was bought by a Big Five publisher and is already published. The people I work with are a dream and it turned out to be a blessing that Entangled never had the courtesy to get back to me.

Chumplet · Sep 8, 2014

Thank you, Heather, for posting Liz's letter. I hope it will clear things up for some authors who have felt left out in the cold. I still think this publisher can go places, as long as they don't collapse from too much growth like some others we have been watching.

Fed Up Writer · Sep 11, 2014

Collated author response

Thanks for the reply on Liz's behalf Heather. I was sure Liz did have an AW account as I've seen a number of posts from her before, but never mind.

I welcome the fact that Liz is looking for feedback and as such, have taken a bit of time to ask for feedback from various Entangled author colleagues. The bottom line is all authors involved with Entangled want to write the best book they can, sell books and be involved with a successful company with integrity.

A number of the issues Liz addresses have been highlighted by authors and at the regular Town Hall meetings assurances have been given to authors that things are being addressed. Unfortunately, these things aren't always followed through timeously - if at all.

Every author who gave feedback asked about the scheduling we were promised over a year ago - a structured timetable so authors would know exactly when their books were coming out. At the moment it's still a mystery to authors when their books will actually appear. Release dates change frequently - or a book doesn't appear and an author asks where it is they are told by their editor that the date was changed - and did no-one tell them??? Disgraceful.

They also asked about the reassurance that no major edits would be required after QA stage which also seems to have fell by the wayside. It's difficult to plan your other writing work and publicity for your books when it is normal for Entangled to drop a set of edits/changes with a quick turnaround time in your lap. It's also difficult to do any publicity with a release date that constantly changes. None of these have changed despite assurances they would.

And whilst I am hopeful that the turnover staff at Entangled will be reduced by offering editors salaries from July, a few editors I know tell me that's not the case. They are still waiting for contracts to be agreed.

I think misinformation is a general bug bear. Figures were quoted to authors about general earnings per line. I've yet to meet any author who has fallen into the 'general earning' figures. Whilst I believe Entangled had fabulous sales to begin with, that's certainly not my experience, nor indeed any other author I've spoken to over the last year. I'm familiar with statistics and how they are used. But I've got to work on the assumption that when these figures are quoted, they are including the huge sales from the beginning which will skew the average.

Lots of authors feel as if they can't speak out about issues. Or if they do, they will be slapped down.

Which leads me on to the point of open door policy: Only time will tell, the reluctance of unhappy authors to accept this invitation suggests that many do fear a subsequent backlash. EP is proud of it many street teams and contacts...these groups are influential and can make or break an author. No author wants to find themselves having to contend with potential negativity from such groups.

Of particular interest and mentioned frequently in the feedback I got was The Entangled Mafia - Entangled's street team. Not a particularly endearing name - I know - and authors who dissented over this terming were slapped down for it.

Yes, a new communication system has been put in place...but it's roles seems to be to pull in information (complaints) from authors rather than to push pre-emptive, positive information out to authors. Most are uncomfortable complaining about those with whom they have and must continue to work closely, and again it has put authors in a negative position.

Few would dispute EPs efforts to address the issues for which they are increasingly becoming known, and that's to be applauded, but these solutions need to have been implemented if they are to be viewed as anything other than 'lip service' being paid to temporarily deflect author dissatisfaction and negative PR.

I'll watch this space with interest. If everything happens as Liz's response then that's fabulous. If not, I'll free to post again for those who feel they can't.

Le Mole · Sep 11, 2014

Dear Liz/Heather

Thank you for your response to the concerns that have been aired – I say this on behalf of myself and my beleaguered inbox. It’s good that you have admitted that what has been stated is true and that you are planning improvements. However, I say this with the caveat that we have been here before. Many times. When my inbox is no longer filled with disgruntled, unhappy authors then I will happily go back in my hole.

As your response ended with: "If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer, as always. Liz is known for her tomes, but let me know if we missed anything!" I would like to take you up on that offer. I can see Fed Up Writer has already posted continuing concerns so please forgive any duplication of points raised:

Why is there still no system in place for solid release dates so authors can organise their publicity? The Entangled contracts state that authors are not to promote any other work on the month of release but authors need to know quite far in advance the actual month in question so they can avoid releasing with another publisher or arranging advertising etc... It’s all very well saying that you’re perfectionists (which I find strange considering the number of typos found in some of our covers) but if pretty much every other publishing house can manage it, why can’t you?

Why, a year after you promised it would not happen anymore, are authors still being required to rewrite their books after QA? This does not happen in any other publishing house. You promised a year ago to streamline the editing process so the issue of an author having to rewrite their book copious times no longer arises, but this is still yet to happen.

I also have a number of points to make in direct response to your post:

Quote: "The information I shared about editors leaving because of abuse was true, and not at all related to how we paid our staff at the time. In fact, the editor in question was one of our highest paid editors. The “abuse” I was speaking of wasn’t the regular emails you’d expect to receive in a professional capacity. They were threatening, personal, and offensive."

If that is true then shame on that author. However, I personally know of an editor who left because they couldn’t deal with the stress of their workload, and another who quit because they couldn’t deal with being consistently undermined by senior management. I’ve never spoken to any of your other editors so I couldn’t pass comment on them, but far from no editors leaving, I know a number have left in just the past couple of months. Oh, and that point As of July, all of our staff is paid a salary or flat fee on projects. We’ve not had any turnover since. I know for a fact that there are still editors employed by Entangled who are still on the royalty system, and not by choice.

Quote: "I don’t measure our success based upon how many authors we have (more than 500) versus how many would never work with us again (a small fraction of that number), but on how hard we work to learn from our mistakes and continue to evolve into the company I know we all can be proud of."

We have been promised a number of times over the years that you will learn from your mistakes and absolutely nothing has changed. Why should we believe you now?

Believe me, I want Entangled to do well, if only for the sake of its hard-working authors who deserve all the success in the world.

AggieGirl2013 · Sep 13, 2014

Expectations of Entangled Publishing for their authors?

I have recently graduated from college. Wrote my first novella that I want to submit to Entangled for their flaunt/flirt line. Problem is I am concerned about their expectations for their authors.

I was the victim of stalking, and after moving over 300 miles away finally am being left alone. So I want to publish under a pen name, and don't want my picture or anything really identifiable out there.

Will that be a problem for them? For the marketing of my story? What in general do they expect from their authors and in their contract?

Chris P · Sep 13, 2014

As far as using a pen name, I'm sure they'll be fine with that. Just be sure to submit under your real name and make them know you want to use a pen name when you submit.

For your other questions, you might want to ask a moderator to move this post to the Entangled thread in the Bewares, Recommendations and Background Checks forum. It will get the attention it deserves there from people who've worked with them

ssbittner · Sep 13, 2014

I'm terribly sorry to hear about the stalking. I hope you can work something out with the publisher that is both satisfactory and keeps you safe.

Maryn · Sep 14, 2014

It's the norm for authors who wish to use a pen name for whatever reason to do so. You submit and sign contacts and such using your real name, but the publisher keeps your real name confidential. They're all quite accustomed to this.

Your self-promotion is done online, using your pen name. You may blog, have a website, promote on Facebook or Twitter and anywhere else you might find a readership, entirely under the pseudonym. When and if you attend conventions or conferences, you'd book your room and pay for it using your real name, but your public persona, name tag at events, and all that can be your pen name.

Maryn, knowing many writers keep their real names confidential

misericorde · Sep 14, 2014

AggieGirl2013 said:
Wrote my first novella that I want to submit to Entangled for their flaunt/flirt line. Problem is I am concerned about their expectations for their authors.

All novella lines were dissolved in January, so when you go to submit, the Flirt/Flaunt/Ever After option won't be there. The novel lines take novellas, though. Just make sure your story fits the usual requirements of the line you're targeting, except for word count (10k-40k). If your story is trope-tastic, aim at one of the category lines. Otherwise, submit to Select.

I left Entangled last month, but while I was there, pen names were fine. I can't imagine that would change.

Good luck!

LeaveMeBroken · Sep 16, 2014

AggieGirl2013 said:
I have recently graduated from college. Wrote my first novella that I want to submit to Entangled for their flaunt/flirt line. Problem is I am concerned about their expectations for their authors.

I was the victim of stalking, and after moving over 300 miles away finally am being left alone. So I want to publish under a pen name, and don't want my picture or anything really identifiable out there.

Will that be a problem for them? For the marketing of my story? What in general do they expect from their authors and in their contract?

Hey AggieGirl,

I hate hearing you've been a victim of stalking

This is absolutely not a problem for us, nor should it be for any publisher. There are ways to accommodate your need for privacy by withholding personal information, your real name (even on the copyright page), and pictures.

Whatever you decide, know you'll be able to publish safely! Take care of yourself...

Le Mole · Sep 22, 2014

Waiting for a Response

When Heather Howland responded on behalf of Liz addressing concerns aired by Entangled authors, she specifically said that if there was anything we felt hadn't been addressed, to say something. I was less than satisfied by the response, which was a classic case of PR deflection, and so I posted with specific concerns eleven days ago. When are the answers to these specific concerns going to be forthcoming?

Fed Up Writer · Sep 22, 2014

Ditto

How strange Le Mole I was just thinking the same thing - it was strange that Liz said she would address issues, and hasn't.
Well, there's a change!

Entangled Publishing

Le Mole

Fed Up Writer

romancewriter

junierob

girlyswot

AprilA

romancewriter

SueBee

Addicted To Romance & Reese's Cups

APolar

S.C. Wynne

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing

KimJo

Outside the box, with the werewolves

LeaveMeBroken

Jennywrites

Chumplet

This hat is getting too hot

Fed Up Writer

Le Mole

AggieGirl2013

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred

ssbittner

scientist, artist, writer

Maryn

Baaa!

misericorde

LeaveMeBroken

Le Mole

Fed Up Writer