Why such animosity towards fan works in the original fiction community?

Lillith1991 · Mar 28, 2014

Many writers come to the community via fan fiction at first. Some have good original ideas but don't feel the desire to write an original story for places such as fictionpress.com or a novel. If everyone that loved writing wanted to get published as an original author then it would be even more difficult, for those of us who want focus generally on completely original works to get published than it already is.

So I'm asking, why such animosity?

I myself have always had an interest in writing original stories, but I began and still do perfect my work via fan fiction. There is some great work out there that's purely fan fiction, and makes me marvel at the creativity of the author on the different archive sites. Some fan works even end up published like the novels that are part of the Star Trek: Enterprise universe. I'm particularly impressed when authors can keep a character in canon and still have the character fit their story.

This is not to say fan fiction is awesome, all sunshine and roses. It isn't to me. Being a person who loves both original works and fan fiction/fan works I noticed themes and judge things by how well written it is. There are A LOT of shit fan stories out there but I think fan work( I make a clear mental distinction between what's simply a fan writing and what is professional in quality) such as the book series based on Star Trek: Enterprise should get respect as well. The universe may be pre-determined but the story itself isn't.

I personally love both avenues of writing even if I'm focused on creating original worlds and stories for a career as a fiction writer. This is why I can't understand the animosity and downright hate in some cases for such stuff.
To me published fan works that have the estates/creators permision deserve their due praise as well. Books such as: Star Trek Enterprise: Beneath the Raptors Wing

This isn't to say I don't believe we as authors aren't entitled to not want people to create stories with our characters, Anne Rice and other authors have asked that sites not host fanfiction based on their work. They're well within their rights to do so, and the reputable fan fiction sites don't host fan fiction of works by such authors. So I'm left with a what gives feeling, why get up in arms when we as authors can ask sites not to host fan fiction of our works?

benluby · Mar 28, 2014

Asking them not to do so doesn't mean the same thing as they don't do it. I personally look at it like taking a cherished vehicle from my garage without asking my permission and then scratching it up and beating the hell out of it.
If someone wants to write on a world I create, and they populate it with their own characters, that is different, and something I will keep my yap shut on possibly, but when they would use my characters? Nah. They can create their own. Those are my kids dammit, and I ain't sharing, although I will tell you bedtime stories about their antics.

NRoach · Mar 28, 2014

I've not encountered a huge amount of animosity in regards to Fanfiction, but I'm vaguely aware of its reputation.

That reputation is, I think, one of the main reasons that people look down on FF (even if they're not openly hostile). The vast majority of works in any artform are crap, and one simply sees more crap FF than crap OF. I'd put that down to the lack of needing to find a publisher for FF, and so it's absurdly easy for anyone to get their work up in public.

Lillith1991 · Mar 28, 2014

benluby said:
Asking them not to do so doesn't mean the same thing as they don't do it.

This is VERY true! But it also precludes the idea that people don't genuinly respect their favorite authors to me. I haven't seen any fan fiction of Anne Rice's work on reputable sites in years, and the sites that did have it had crap on it anyway and weren't all that great or reputable to begin with.

I wouldn't want anyone playing with my babies either and will be asking sites not to do it and take down work if they have it up when/if that becomes an issue. I still respect the creativity of such work though and always will.

Lillith1991 · Mar 28, 2014

I've got another question for you lovely people, should we label liscened fan works the same way our community seems to label fanfiction? People writing liscenced fan works have permision to be playing in or continue the world of a book/show/movie after all, and go through the same editing process we do.

Is it fair to paint them with the same feather as the 13 year old who wants to write a story about (insert fandom here) but doesn't have the skill to actually write well or coherently?

veinglory · Mar 28, 2014

I honestly do not see any more animosity from authors than from the general public. Most do not think about fanfiction at all, the most common response to being asked about it is bemusement or indifference, and the small minority left range from strongly against to strongly in favor.

StephanieZie · Mar 28, 2014

Lillith1991 said:
I've got another question for you lovely people, should we label liscened fan works the same way our community seems to label fanfiction? People writing liscenced fan works have permision to be playing in or continue the world of a book/show/movie after all, and go through the same editing process we do.

Is it fair to paint them with the same feather as the 13 year old who wants to write a story about (insert fandom here) but doesn't have the skill to actually write well or coherently?

No, I don't think it's quite the same. It's still derivative work, but then so is alot of original fiction. Authors of licensed fan fic just don't make any effort to hide it.

I have no problem with fan fiction, of other people's work, or of my own work if i ever get published. The way I see it, I, as the creator, am the only one who gets to decide what is real/canon in my world and what's not. Other people can think, say, write, draw anything they want about my characters, but none of it will ever be a part of the original body of work, so it doesn't affect me, or the characters themselves. I probably wouldn't ever want to read fan fic based on my work, but just the fact that it existed wouldn't upset me.

Hapax Legomenon · Mar 28, 2014

NRoach said:
The vast majority of works in any artform are crap, and one simply sees more crap FF than crap OF. I'd put that down to the lack of needing to find a publisher for FF, and so it's absurdly easy for anyone to get their work up in public.

I also think the fact is that some people do seek out amateur fanfiction as opposed to amateur original fiction because there is less perceived risk -- it's the same as why Hollywood keeps making remakes.

shadowwalker · Mar 28, 2014

Fanfic gets a lot of flak just because, as you note (and is really undeniable) there's a lot of crap out there. But then, most (not all) who write fanfic are doing it just for fun, with no pretense at writing well. So it's not animosity toward fanfic as much as just acknowledging reality.

What I do see is a lot of derision and animosity toward fanfic authors, which irritates the hell out of me.

King God Kong Zilla · Mar 28, 2014

Giggles aren't always appropriate!!

Lillith1991 · Mar 28, 2014

shadowwalker said:
What I do see is a lot of derision and animosity toward fanfic authors, which irritates the hell out of me.

That's what bothers me as well. I can understand disliking it, because even though I love it and look to only read the stuff that's professional quality there is a lot of crap piles to sift through and find the gems. At the same time I've also seen some god aweful stuff on places like fictionpress which is all original work, but people aren't saying it isn't real writing like they do in regards to fanfiction authors even though it may be pure crap.

That double standard is disturbing.

BethS · Mar 28, 2014

benluby said:
Asking them not to do so doesn't mean the same thing as they don't do it. I personally look at it like taking a cherished vehicle from my garage without asking my permission and then scratching it up and beating the hell out of it.

That sums it up.

I think fan fiction is fine as long as the author of the original work is OK with it. But fanfic writers should definitely respect the wishes of the author.

Marian Perera · Mar 28, 2014

shadowwalker said:
What I do see is a lot of derision and animosity toward fanfic authors, which irritates the hell out of me.

No kidding. I'll always remember this comment, from a previous AW discussion about fanfic writers:

"All these people can do is damage your brand, embarrass you, and possibly cause you physical harm."

I remember thinking, "Physical harm? So as someone who writes both fanfics and original fiction, am I in danger of hitting myself?"

That being said, thankfully most people are more reasonable than this. Someone here read one of my Transformers fanfics, without knowing anything about the fandom, and told me she enjoyed it. That was wonderful feedback.

AHunter3 · Mar 28, 2014

I'm under the impression that a lot of the dismissive attitude towards fanfic is tied up with the idea that most of it is "Mary Sue"—that the author has inserted themselves[/i] as a new character into the original author's world.

Sheryl Nantus · Mar 28, 2014

Queen of Swords said:
Someone here read one of my Transformers fanfics, without knowing anything about the fandom, and told me she enjoyed it. That was wonderful feedback.

I still get feedback every now and then on the X-Files fanfiction I wrote almost 20 years ago.

Darned nice to get.

I just hope and pray I'm putting out better stuff now.

veinglory · Mar 28, 2014

I think there is just as much derision of original work--look at most of what is said about recent best sellers like 50 Shades or Twilight. Look at what people say about genres like erotica or formats like ebooks One does have to watch for the effects of confirmation bias which makes us focus on those who are negative about stuff we do. Some number of people will hate everything that exists. Does that really matter?

It is equally true that many great authors speak openly and positively about reading and writing fanfiction--and do so with no retribution or problems that I know of. It is equally true that there is really no such thing as the non-overlapping fan and original fiction communities. Many many many of us are living in both worlds and don't take part in 'us and them' conceptions of them.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 28, 2014

I don't really see this as a "Basic Writing" question.

I'm going to find it a better home where it will have more participants.

Hang on to your seats . . .

Kylabelle · Mar 28, 2014

...and, welcome to Roundtable.

*goes to backread thread*

gothicangel · Mar 28, 2014

Is there derision? I tried to write a Rosemary Sutcliff FF a few year ago, I got a few chapters in and I started feeling uncomfortable dealing with someone else's characters and world, and the MC kind of took off in my head but wanted his own story. Otherwise, I've never thought since about fan fiction. :Shrug:

shadowwalker · Mar 28, 2014

gothicangel said:
Is there derision? I tried to write a Rosemary Sutcliff FF a few year ago, I got a few chapters in and I started feeling uncomfortable dealing with someone else's characters and world, and the MC kind of took off in my head but wanted his own story. Otherwise, I've never thought since about fan fiction.

That's one of the most wonderful things about writing fanfic - suddenly an OC decides "No, by God, this is my story!" and away you go. It's great. Some of the best compliments I got on my fanfics were about an OC. And that's what it comes down to for many writers - a safe place to play with and develop their writing and their confidence, and gradually move into totally original work. I can see no down side to that (with the caveat, obviously, that one is playing in the yards where it's okay to do so).

Lillith1991 · Mar 28, 2014

Medievalist said:
I don't really see this as a "Basic Writing" question.

I'm going to find it a better home where it will have more participants.

Hang on to your seats . . .

*checks to see everything is where it was left* I think we made it over fine.

Filigree · Mar 28, 2014

I am a fan fiction author. I am an original fiction author. When I first started writing in the late eighties and early nineties, I despised the kind of Mary Sue, out-of-character fan fiction that was the only kind I was seeing at cons and in 'zines. I even wrote a couple of filk songs mocking it (irony understood).

Then I found a couple of fandoms that spoke to me, and read great fan fiction by authors who seemed to respect the source material. It didn't hurt that those pieces were technically perfect, easily to the levels of pro writing. I found out that many of them *were* written by pro authors moonlighting for fun. So I started, while continuing to write original works.

Fan writing helped me learn what little craft I know. A decade or so later I still get compliments from people reading my old fan fiction. In a newer fandom, I've had 10,000+ readers, a few of whom go on to buy my original works. I still respect well-written fan fiction that doesn't warp its inspiration (more than I might say for the Star Trek reboot movies).

I've never really felt I was that marginalized by writing fan fiction, even after I let out that I wrote it. Part of that was because I already felt like a pariah: for the longest time, lit-fic people looked down on sci-fi people, sci-fi people looked down on romance people, romance people looked down on writers of erotic romance, and many of those looked down on authors of male/male erotic romance. I had plenty of potential detractors no matter where I was on that list, but somehow none of it was ever enough to stop me from writing what I wanted to write.

It's easy to get bogged down in clannish turf wars, but not so conducive to creativity.

Torgo · Mar 28, 2014

From a publisher's perspective I think fanfiction is basically a good thing. It's one of the ways fandoms become self-sustaining between books, and it provides a way for new writers to learn some chops and show off their skills in a relatively safe environment. I know a lot of writers who started out writing fanfic and eventually built their own worlds and characters when they had the confidence.

I can't imagine too many situations in which the existence of fanfiction online (in a non-commercial way) could have a negative effect on the writer of the original stories, or on the stories themselves? And I can't see that from an artistic point of view fanfiction is intrinsically worth any less than original fiction. OK, you didn't make up the characters, say, but Shakespeare didn't make Hamlet up.

Mr Flibble · Mar 28, 2014

Derision?

Lawks, not from me. I'll think I've made it when I see a bit of slash between my two main male characters.

Writing is writing. So fan fic picks up someone else's world, but hell there's a lot of inventiveness and some really great writing there. I've read some fab stuff in worlds I already love that really helped me see it a different way.

So a <3 from me.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 28, 2014

I don't have animosity toward fanfic, I just don't understand it. That's all. For me, it's always been easier to create my own world and characters than try to duplicate and work within the restricted framework of someone else's creation. And when I started out, I thought it was a form of plagiarism and something to avoid.

Why such animosity towards fan works in the original fiction community?

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