Tallahassee is a big football town...

robeiae · Nov 21, 2013

Jameis Winston--standout QB at Florida State and Heisman hopeful--may be in a lot of trouble. He may not be in any trouble.

He's been accused of sexually assaulting a women some 11 months ago. ESPN reports that DNA from her rape kit matches that of Winston.

And yet, he was never charged. His roomate--who supposedly witnessed the assault, according to the victim--was never interviewed. His DNA was not obtained until last week--he submitted it voluntarily--after the case had been turned over to the State attorney's office.

Why? Well, according to the victim's family:

"When the attorney contacted Detective (Scott) Angulo immediately after Winston was identified, Detective Angulo told the attorney that Tallahassee was a big football town and the victim needs to think long and hard before proceeding against him because she will be raked over the coals and her life will be made miserable," the family said.

Note that at this point in time--last year--Winston hadn't played a down for FSU. He was red-shirted as a freshman. But he was one of the top recruits in the nation. That's all it takes, it would seem...potential.

robjvargas · Nov 21, 2013

And the authorities are, once again, claiming that the victim started refusing to cooperate. As happened in Maryville, MO.

I got a real bad feeling about that. Too soon to call a trend, but I'm very uneasy about that.

Prozyan · Nov 21, 2013

I don't have near as much problem with the detective telling the attorney that as I would if he had spoken the same directly to the victim.

Now if it comes out the investigation dragged its feet because "this is a big football town", that is a different story. But so far, nothing has come to light to show that is the case.

robeiae · Nov 21, 2013

Prozyan said:
Now if it comes out the investigation dragged its feet because "this is a big football town", that is a different story. But so far, nothing has come to light to show that is the case.

I don't know. I think the failure of local cops to interview a potential witness after the complaint was filed looks a lot like feet-dragging, to say the least.

And I'm pretty sure any practicing attorney is aware of how these kinds of cases proceed. The detective was hardly Moses coming down from the mountain in this regard; such a warning really wasn't needed at all.

Prozyan · Nov 21, 2013

robeiae said:
The detective was hardly Moses coming down from the mountain in this regard; such a warning really wasn't needed at all.

Needed or not, I have a hard time getting up in arms over a conversation between a detective and an attorney, regardless of what is said.

regdog · Nov 22, 2013

Rape culture is alive and well

robeiae · Nov 27, 2013

A MUST READ on Florida State culture (and no doubt the culture of most other big football schools): http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-isnt-the-only-problem-here-an-fsu-teac-1467707410

A snippet from one of the stories (all names changed in the piece):

Before Jameis, there was the gay-basher. His teacher, Robert, was also one of Florida State's superstars, a professor in training with a pile of prestigious awards and grants. He is also gay, a fact that "any of my students are gonna figure out pretty quickly," he says. The defensive back took his required writing class a few summers back, and they met early in the course for a one-on-one conference to discuss an assigned essay exploring a significant personal moment in the students' lives.

"It was just me and him in my windowless office on the fourth floor of an empty campus building," Robert says. The player submitted his essay and went down the hall for a drink, while Robert read it and promptly "freaked out."

The paper was "a very graphic, very detailed, very proud telling of how he basically got his high school classmates together to beat the shit out of this 'fag'"—a word used often in the work—"and literally kick him in the teeth to teach him a lesson." They were sick of their mark "acting like a girl," Robert recalls, and so they went about punching him in the face, emptying his gumline. The tone of the player's essay was that "he was very proud of himself. He had taken the initiative to organize this beating."

Robert panicked. The essay's victim "talked sexually, had tight clothes, and had feminine features—some of which could be certainly be said of me," he says. "Why would he give that to me? I took it in the moment as a personal threat."

That's scary stuff. It looks very much like an attempt to scare the teacher, to make sure he gives out passing grades to players. Just reading it makes me very uncomfortable, to say the least. All by itself, this story is making me rethink a lot of things, with regard to sports and education. Because it looks like just one of far too many instances; it reads like it's a far too common kind of occurrence.

I've always thought that schools were cutting too many corners in allowing some athletes access by virtue of their talent, alone. Now I'm wondering if maybe the problems run so deep that we might need a nation-wide "death penalty" for football programs.

LOG · Nov 27, 2013

It's like something out of a horror story . . .

robjvargas · Dec 5, 2013

CNN is reporting that Jameis Winston will not be charged with rape.

Asked why no charges would be filed, State Attorney Willie Meggs said, "We have a duty as prosecutors to only file ... charges if we have a reasonable likelihood of a conviction."

He added: "We did not feel we could meet that burden."

He may be right per the law, but I really don't like the apparent pressure on the victim to back off her complaint.

LOG · Dec 5, 2013

So there were just two people watching the event?
And their statements were actually accepted?
"Yeah, we were just chilling, watching totally consensual sex."

Winston still probably wouldn't have been charged, but what in the world . . .

Lyv · Apr 16, 2014

From The New York Times:

In fact, an examination by The New York Times has found that there was virtually no investigation at all, either by the police or the university.

The police did not follow the obvious leads that would have quickly identified the suspect as well as witnesses, one of whom videotaped part of the sexual encounter. After the accuser identified Mr. Winston as her assailant, the police did not even attempt to interview him for nearly two weeks and never obtained his DNA.

The detective handling the case waited two months to write his first report and then prematurely suspended his inquiry without informing the accuser. By the time the prosecutor got the case, important evidence had disappeared, including the video of the sexual act.

I almost didn't want to quote from it, because it's so detailed and is worth a read. But it's infuriating.

frimble3 · Apr 16, 2014

I'm sorry, maybe I'm mistaken? Is this the first time that a football (or to be fair, 'a popular team sport') program has turned out at least one violent asshole who thinks that he can have whatever he wants and not suffer any consequences? And he's been right?
So why the surprise?
'They' keep saying that organized sports are 'good' for children, in that they learn all sorts of valuable lessons. Apparently, some of them learn that they're special, and so important that they can do as they please.

Lillith1991 · Apr 16, 2014

Situations such as this turn my stomach. The guys not being charged because he plays sports, and the young womans life is ruined. They even have witnesses! The police work was shoddy at best, so was the prosecuters work.

Rape culture is alive and thriving. Though, I don't know why I'm surprised.

Shadow Dragon · Apr 16, 2014

frimble3 said:
'They' keep saying that organized sports are 'good' for children, in that they learn all sorts of valuable lessons. Apparently, some of them learn that they're special, and so important that they can do as they please.

Well, it is good for kids growing up. The problem lies with the adults treating the kids like they're the second coming and can do no wrong.

robeiae · Apr 16, 2014

Lyv said:
From The New York Times:

Thanks for the update, Lyv.

After the story broke, it seemed to dry up in a hurry, mostly because--I think--people were spreading the idea that the alleged victim was not trustworthy. And of course because Winston had become a huge football star.

robeiae · Apr 16, 2014

FWIW, here's FSU's response to the NYT piece.

Zoombie · Apr 17, 2014

Okay, here's a logic that I never quite got.

Everyone knows what happens when a rape survivor tries to call out their victim: They get called untrustworthy and that they were just asking for it and now they're "calling rape."

But...how the fuck does that make even a little bit of sense?

"Oh, I'm going to destroy my ex-boyfriend/random stranger/whatever's reputation by MAKING MYSELF A TARGET FOR HARASSMENT! There's NO way this plan can fail!"

Which leaves the only reasonable reason why anyone, ANYONE, would claim they've been raped.

...that they were actually raped.

But then again, I'm expecting logic and reason from fucking rape apologists who should be rounded up and shot in the stomach with acid bullets.

...okay, not really, I just feel very vindictive right now.

kuwisdelu · Apr 17, 2014

Zoombie said:
Which leaves the only reasonable reason why anyone, ANYONE, would claim they've been raped.

...that they were actually raped.

Some people aren't reasonable. That cuts both ways.

But yes one way is still far more unfortunately common than the other.

Speaking of cutting both ways.

Innocent until proven guilty must count for the victim too.

blacbird · Apr 17, 2014

robeiae said:
And of course because Winston had become a huge football star.

Youngest Heisman Trophy winner evah.

One does have to wonder if the Heisman voters might not come to regret that decision. Not too many years ago they were obligated to recind the award to USC's Reggie Bush because of far less serious and non-criminal indiscretions.

caw

Zoombie · Apr 17, 2014

kuwisdelu said:
Speaking of cutting both ways.

Innocent until proven guilty must count for the victim too.

Yeah, but there still needs to be an investigation, a trial, and attempts to prove or disprove guilt. In situations like this, there's nothing but a bunch of harassment, intimation, and general acts of douchebaggery...

Which isn't my idea of truth, justice, or the American way. Well, actually, considering how many of these threats there are, I think you could argue that it IS the American Way.

But...it's the wrong way.

robjvargas · Apr 30, 2014

Jameis Winston was cited for shoplifting.

Heisman trophy-winning quarterback Jameis Winston was cited for shoplifting $32.72 worth of seafood at Publix grocery store in Tallahassee, Fla., on Tuesday night, Leon County Director of Law Enforcement Michael Wood said in a news conference Wednesday.

The story also quotes the police as saying he was apologetic, took responsibility, and was cooperative.

Still... I can't help sensing a bit of entitlement here. And that, in turn, lends a bit of credibility towards the claims in this thread. Enough to change the decision not to prosecute? I strongly doubt it. But I as a person can't help rethinking this situation in light of the shoplifting.

As a result of the citation, FSU baseball coach Mike Martin said in a statement he has suspended Winston, a pitcher, from the Seminoles' baseball team.

robeiae · Apr 30, 2014

I suspect this is not the first time he's done this. Just the first time he got caught.

RedRajah · Apr 30, 2014

Crab legs: worth more than a woman's consent. *rage*

robeiae · Jan 25, 2016

Update: http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/25/us/florida-state-fsu-settles-jameis-winston-rape-lawsuit/index.html

Florida State University has reached a $950,000 settlement with a former student who sued the school afteralleging she was raped by Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback Jameis Winston, school President James Thrasher said in a Monday statement.

The main reason the school settled, Thrasher said, was to avoid millions of dollars in legal expenses.

Maybe it's just me, but I think universities should be concerned with truth, first and foremost. I know, I'm an idealist...

rugcat · Jan 25, 2016

robeiae said:
Update: http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/25/us/florida-state-fsu-settles-jameis-winston-rape-lawsuit/index.html

Maybe it's just me, but I think universities should be concerned with truth, first and foremost. I know, I'm an idealist...

Not if the truth is that they were complicit in trying to bury any investigation so as to not lose the services of Winston.

Tallahassee is a big football town...

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