Ukrainians protest gov't abandoning EU free trade agreement over Russian pressure

What a shocker, more trouble from Russia.


Maybe they should suck it up and learn to compete on the world market instead of harassing neighboring countries?

There was a large demonstration in Edmonton today. Edmonton has a large Western Ukrainian population, most from Volynia-Halych and Bessarabia. The eastern political bloc, based around such places as Dnepropetrovsk and Luhansk are very closely attached to Russia while the western political bloc is closely attached to Poland. The easterner majority speaks Russian, the westerners majority speak Ukrainian.

It should be noted that the Ukrainian opposition in government tried to hold a vote of no-confidence. It failed as they could not peel off enough unaffiliated and Communist votes from the coalition in the Verkhovna Rada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-opposition-fails-in-non-confidence-bid-1.2448736

Yanukovich has ordered riot police to clear crowds away from government buildings. Tensions are mounting.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-protests-draw-hundreds-of-riot-police-1.2456242

I think that joining the EU is ultimately a terrible decision, and they'd just be turning from one tyrant-like government to another. Yet if the majority of the people truly do want to join the EU, then maybe the will of the people should be recognized, even if it ends up destroying the country in the long run. To me that's the drawback of freedom, you're free to destroy yourself.

The joining of Croatia (or whatever that window dressing "vote" was- the one where a small fraction only voted) is certainly showing it already! The EU also wants to keep expanding it seems, which is good for the EU money making but bad, or lets say "not what the locals" expected when it hits them in the pocket! I can understand however not wanting to be under an "old boot" like we are reading now. Russia is doing all it can as well to keep from loosing buffer zone countries and former allies, the expansion of thr EU (and NATO) and all that. Next stop the far north under the place where santa must niw have a floating workshop! European history is not finnished yet. The funny thing is the EU chants that its purpose is maintaining peace, i wonder how? The conditions are certainly being set to allow the fertile ground for the right wing when they dig this deep into the common mans pockets and a self appointed elite rules, and, Russia is nowhere near "broke" now this past 10 years, they did quite well! We will see interesting things to come i imagine!

BM

I don't think all of the credit should go to John Kerry......

Police withdrew from city hall following an abortive attempt to oust occupying protesters, said the BBC's David Stern at the scene.

Protesters used hoses to fire icy water at the police, said reports, and events were carried live on local television.

Police then pulled back from the main camp in Independence Square, which they moved on in the early hours of Wednesday.

"I want everyone to calm down," said Interior Minister Vitali Zakharchenko in a statement.

"There will be no storming of the square. No one will violate your rights to protest peacefully, but do not ignore the rights... of other citizens."

Overnight, riot police and interior ministry officers had dismantled some barriers and tents, with police saying they were trying to free up a passage through the square for traffic.

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Miranda, I was about to post a similar comment. I don't think it had much to do with Kerry at all, but with the utter determination of that roused populace. But I was unable to find the article I read first thing this morning (before coffee -- B.C. ) that described the barricades being rebuilt after police withdrew.

I am oddly overjoyed at this development. Say no to the bootheels!

From a different viewpoint:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europ...ainian-protest-camp-20131210232919491464.html

Ukrainian police and protesters have clashed again outside Kiev's city hall after security forces attempted to re-take the building occupied by hundreds of protesters.

Police on Wednesday used truncheons while protesters responded with sticks and demonstrators inside the building sprayed the police with extremely cold water from a fire hose, forcing security forces to retreat to police buses in the sub-zero temperatures.

Police ended up moving away from the building, having failed to wrest it from the hundreds of protesters inside.

Meanwhile the interior minister said Independence Square, where protesters remained through the night, will not be stormed again and urged for calm.

In an escalation of the protests that have been going on for weeks, security forces in the Ukraine did storm a protest on Tuesday night and in to Wednesday morning, ripping down barricades and tents in the capital Kiev.

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These folks are fighting for their economic and political freedom.

Kinda puts the lawsuit to declare chimpanzees people in its place.

Are you trying to get the award for the Most Off-Topic Post of 2013?

Rain Gnome said:

I think that joining the EU is ultimately a terrible decision, and they'd just be turning from one tyrant-like government to another. Yet if the majority of the people truly do want to join the EU, then maybe the will of the people should be recognized, even if it ends up destroying the country in the long run. To me that's the drawback of freedom, you're free to destroy yourself.

Click to expand...

Bush_moon said:

The joining of Croatia (or whatever that window dressing "vote" was- the one where a small fraction only voted) is certainly showing it already! The EU also wants to keep expanding it seems, which is good for the EU money making but bad, or lets say "not what the locals" expected when it hits them in the pocket! I can understand however not wanting to be under an "old boot" like we are reading now. Russia is doing all it can as well to keep from loosing buffer zone countries and former allies, the expansion of thr EU (and NATO) and all that. Next stop the far north under the place where santa must niw have a floating workshop! European history is not finnished yet. The funny thing is the EU chants that its purpose is maintaining peace, i wonder how? The conditions are certainly being set to allow the fertile ground for the right wing when they dig this deep into the common mans pockets and a self appointed elite rules, and, Russia is nowhere near "broke" now this past 10 years, they did quite well! We will see interesting things to come i imagine!

BM

Click to expand...

robjvargas said:

These folks are fighting for their economic and political freedom.

Click to expand...

I agree, they are fighting for their liberation (to use a term I find more palatable.) But I also agree that the EU is not the liberation they seek. In other words, there is a lot of ground yet to be covered, to really get to anything recognizable as genuine economic and political freedom, and the EU is far from the end goal that will offer that. It is only a step, a refusal to be drawn backward perhaps.

I suspect many if not most of the protesters know that. But being dragged into the loving arms of Mother Russia against your collective will requires a strong response, so we're seeing one.

Well right now its peacefull. However it could get dangerous if the people feel they're having the same thing as the cold war era forced on them, and, the only thing they need to think that is to see thier government dig in and say sorry folks we choose Russia as our pal!

The heads of state in many of these countries have only changed hats but still wear the same underwear, so to speak! Many of the bosses are the same ones or related to the ones who were in power pre 1990, only now its popular to go to church on sunday! They need only be monetarilly paid off and they will be anyones friends, or threatened in some way that they will not be able to keep or maintain the life of luxury they have stolen right after communisim "fell" (sort of).....

Russia needs only to make economic threats, turn off the gas, tax higher, etc, THIS is what convinces these puppets to dig thier heels in and resist the will of the people. The government is there for the people, not the other way around! But then theres that little thing called aggressive unrestricted capitalisim....on the backs of the people at all costs!

Those countries have it hard too, theres no such thing as a paycheck over 1000 bucks a month or retirement like people in the west enjoy and in those parts if there is an external enemy or a perceived external enemy (russia) the people will resist as they will see it as externally related, otherwise they will be passive. Its clear they do not want anything of the sort of a return to communisim or quasi communisim.

Thats what we are seeing, on small scales, i think. It seems they still after all these years since 1980-90 have not able to determine thier future so it seems to the news and what the people in Ukraine are saying. Russia is coming back and building up again, nuclear practice flights, bases up north being repopened, military rebuilt, the yanks have moved into africa militarily, its rolling! Russia has money too now! Those people in Ukraine, the old ones more then anyone under 40 years old i bet can see the writing on the wall! What will be interesting is how the EU and Russia react as well and how its kept civil, i hope!

BM

Ok.

One of the rules of P+CE is that you provide evidence to back up your claims. If there isn't any, then you qualify it with 'IMO' or 'in my opinion'. Just so we all know where we are.

Obviously, the lack of any paragraphs indicates a rant. Which is fine. But I just thought you ought to know, as a newbie, how P+CE works.

Bush_moon, could you please add some paragraph breaks so your posts are more readable? They sorta give me a headache. That's not an exagerration or sarcastic comment, by the way, just a request.

Roger that! Typing on this bloody iphone has got me on the paragraphsWell, regards to backing it up, when you have lived in an ex communist country before all of this becomes quite clear "how things work" and how the average westerner views them, the two are complete opposites unless you live them and see it for yourself! What i knew before, or thought i knew, was a real awakening! Then again some of us like me have been part of history as well and not just read about it!

My perspective from what i have experienced starting with Bosnia in the 90s until now has made a lot of things, and patterns, crystal clear! It helps to also speak with the common man who lived through communism and the period up until now. This stuff wont be written in books for the average westerner to understand at the root level. What is going on now is Russia is starting to reassert itself, worldwide, China is on board in the same way, this is what this is all about. Former Russian states, or people in govt seem to be choosing sides now.

Russia has begun to reorganize into the old systems under Putin, they're now rebuilding their military. They have started accepting worldwide recruits and are refurbishing all the old bases from the cold war up north. Flights have resumed that flew to North American airspace as they did during the cold war. They're asserting themselves along with China in Africa economically, and theres no doubt tensions will arise eventually there somehow! They are growling at the expansion of NATO. Its all related, only many in the west are under the impression Russia is something that disappeared in 1989-90.

BM