Studies Confirm the Dehumanization of Black Children and the ‘Preschool-to-Prison Pipeline’

Well, I mentioned in my post that I definitely think minority children face discrimination and that it needs to change, but also that this was a complex issue and boiling it down to one single cause is going to create more problems because it ignores the other issues that affect it as well, and that we need a more comprehensive understanding so that it can be approached from multiple levels.

I was not being dismissive or saying that there wasn't a problem, or suggesting private school. I did say that there are some schools proving that the students often deemed unteachable can excel, but I was actually referring to some of the inner city charter schools that have done amazing things in recent years--not private.

I think getting rid of the idea that some students will be "unteachable" is a necessary first step, but I also think that a lot of the discrimination that goes on is wholly unconscious, which is a huge problem. I've seen studies where they'll give teachers papers and have them graded, and the group of teachers will read the same papers, but some will have African-American sounding names, and others white names, and those with the African-American sounding names will be scored lower. It's like teachers have these expectations that they aren't even thinking of, expecting off the bat that those students won't perform as well, and then nitpicking more. I also had a student once named Jessica who told me that her parents named her that so that she would sound white on paperwork and avoid that discrimination, so this isn't a new concept.

I really think we need to work with teachers about unconscious biases and help them find a way to make them more conscious, and find ways for administrators to be aware of the problem so that they can be on the lookout for it and nip it in the bud when they see it.

I also think having more minority teachers would be a huge step in the right direction.

Cathy C said:

Then talk. Don't just criticize. What better place is there than a world-wide public forum? What have your own investigations revealed? For those of us without a vested interest in schools, and who are a different skin color or economic background (I don't have kids, and am a white middle-aged woman in the upper ranges of income) but who has and IS willing to help in my corner of the world, what positive steps can help humanize the experience? I know teachers, other than on a case-by-case situation, aren't the problem. I know there are terrific, hard-working principals who are doing the best they can for their school and students, and I personally have known district board members who want nothing more than the best for their schools. It's far too easy to generalize, as you say, and lay the blame at the feet of a group of people, but individually, they aren't the problem. Individual parents, teachers, principals, board of education members, and even legislators aren't the entire problem.

Talk about specific examples you've seen, nighttimer. What different thing could have fixed something you've seen?

Click to expand...

Normally, I don't require much prompting to discuss and debate at length the school-to-prison pipeline and how it has become a profitable business model to incarcerate the over 2 million Americans behind bars. I could go into great detail over how Black children are disproportionately disciplined, suspended and expelled from school, all of which puts them on a glide path to eventually becoming enveloped in the penal system.

It would be a worthwhile discussion to explore the out-of-whack priorities of state governments that slashes the budget for schools and fires teachers but can find $400 million to build a new prison to house present and future prisoners.

If the children really are the future, then what future do they have when so many are doomed at birth by the color of their skin, not the content of their character to become widgets in the prison industrial complex as this chart illustrates:



But I don't see any way to have an honest debate without touching the third rail of the Politics and Current Events forum and that's race, because nothing triggers the "How dare you mention race when this topic has nothing to do with race!" knee-jerk wrath of both established and obscure posters as having the temerity to introduce race into a debate where they don't believe it belongs.

Because frankly, as much as I care about the topic, I don't care enough to have more shit thrown at me again by reactionaries in less than a week's time.

Perhaps in another time and in another debate.

In my mind, this is about race, and I personally don't see a problem with saying so.

I was thinking about this on the drive home, and it might have been linked her, but did anyone else see the video of the white guy trying to break into a car on a busy street, and the African-American? The white guy had people offer to help, the police drove by and didn't say a thing, and he was able to stand out there for ages. I want to say the African American was in handcuffs in a minute and a half. I'd have to check again to make sure, but that's the way I recall it.

There was just an assumption that the white guy was trying to get into his own car, and that the African-American was trying to steal one. I can try to find a link later if someone wants one.

I think similar things happen every day in schools. The real question is how can we prevent it from happening?

It's in the title. It *is* about race. "Untouchable third rail" my hiney, nighttimer. If you've got information, bring it. If people are uncomfortable talking about the race part of the equation, too bad for them.

The only thing that we ask here is that we remain on topic and respectful of each other, period. Since race is the topic of this article, then it should go without saying that it's gonna be discussed.

Clear enough for everyone? Good.

Cranky et anyone else that this interests, I'm not trying to speak for Nighttimer, but race does still end up being the untouchable third rail a lot when talking about things like this. Not nessecarily here, but in general it does. People like to ignore it even when it is the issue.

I can name more than one student that was black at my old school whose only issue was medical, that ended up leaving because the school wouldn't accomadate them in some way. Consequently the black dwarf in my class graduated but one of my friends with a heart defect didn't because the school wouldn't work with her.

She has no behavior problems of any sort, but still ended up leaving school because of how the system is. Now, neither her or the dwarf are on the road to prison. But this does illustrate to me, how schools only like to accomadate balck children(other minorities as well, but they're not presently the topic) who has some sort of serious visual 'defect' because they feel they can't get away not accomadating them.

Where as those that are normal, or don't have a visually jarring issue get the short end of the stick with the school system.

Lillith1991 said:

Cranky et anyone else that this interests, I'm not trying to speak for Nighttimer, but race does still end up being the untouchable third rail a lot when talking about things like this. Not nessecarily here, but in general it does. People like to ignore it even when it is the issue.

I can name more than one student that was black at my old school whose only issue was medical, that ended up leaving because the school wouldn't accomadate them in some way. Consequently the black dwarf in my class graduated but one of my friends with a heart defect didn't because the school wouldn't work with her.

She has no behavior problems of any sort, but still ended up leaving school because of how the system is. Now, neither her or the dwarf are on the road to prison. But this does illustrate to me, how schools only like to accomadate balck children(other minorities as well, but they're not presently the topic) who has some sort of serious visual 'defect' because they feel they can't get away not accomadating them.

Where as those that are normal, or don't have a visually jarring issue get the short end of the stick with the school system.

Click to expand...

This is quite literally criminal, and yet not the only story I've heard of something like this recently. Of course, most people don't have the means to actually fight something like this in court, so they just end up being shafted.

I can't speak for African Americans, but as a Native American, I can't think of any of my 18+ year old male cousins who haven't been to jail.

That includes me, who had just about every other advantage in the world.

It's pretty much routine to hear that one of my male family members has been arrested again.

When you grow up with the world hurling those expectations at you, it's hard not to give in at some point.

What makes it tough to talk about is that many white people who'd like to think they're part of the solution don't like hearing about it when their own pre-conceptions and biases are also part of the problem.

It was similar for Hispanic people in the town where I grew up. The expectations of who they were and what they would be in life were utterly depressing.

I was thinking about this more earlier because I would really like to know how we could fix this. I'm a teacher, though at a higher level. I have heard other teachers make comments about certain groups before, and these are teachers who are, for the most part, very open-minded and who would be shocked to be told that they were acting in a biased manner. I try to correct their statements when I hear something like this, and I try to ask myself periodically if I'm doing the same sort of thing because I don't ever want to be that person who grades differently because of who a student is, or who treats students differently based on ethnicity.

Something that I thought earlier is maybe instead of zero tolerance, we need to have more of a think the best of people attitude. Let me see if I can explain.

It's about internal and external locus of control. Most of the time, when someone does something we don't like, we assume it's because of something internal, whereas when we do something wrong, it's generally external. Someone cuts us off while driving, and we think "that guy's an asshole," but if we cut someone off, it's because the exit is designed in a bad way and the only way to make it in time was to do so, and it wasn't our fault. That sort of logic.

In my psych classes, when we used to discuss this, we talked about how we needed to assume more of the external locus of control for people. Rather than thinking that bad behavior was a sign that they were a bad person, we should assume that maybe that person was just having a bad day, or that something was going on we didn't know about. Someone snaps at you when you ask a question? Maybe they just had something bad happen and they aren't themselves. That sort of thing.

Essentially, you are trying to assume that there is a reason for someone's actions and that it isn't just that they're a bad person. I try very hard to do this in my life (with the exception of people who text while driving--I simply cannot possibly understand what legitimate reason there could be to not pull the hell over or wait ten minutes instead of putting other people's lives at risk).

I think it would be hard, but if instead of seeking to punish first, or to automatically assign blame, we worked to listen and ask questions and not assume the worst, it might work. It might mean erring on the side of letting a student get away with something rather than punishing someone for something they didn't do, which is where I think there would be push back.

I'm not really sure if it would make a difference, but I think if there was a conscious effort to see the best in people, it might eliminate some of the negative viewpoints?

I think race has to be part of the solution.

Anything else is just trying to make things better for everyone, while still ignoring the problems of inequality.

While we may face similar issues, what works for the native community won't necessarily work for the black community won't necessarily work for the latino community, etc.

I think some things are true in common, though:

1. People in the community don't have the resources to change things.
2. People outside the community don't have the understanding to change things.
3. People in the community don't have the clout to convince people outside the community.
4. People outside the community don't have the trust of those within the community.
5. People in the community will resist change brought by anyone outside the community.
6. People outside the community will resist change brought by anyone inside the community.

We need solutions that empower people in the black community and put them in positions to make changes. And most importantly, we need to actually listen to what they say and not act like reactionary assholes when faced with uncomfortable truths.

kuwisdelu said:

We need solutions that empower people in the black community and put them in positions to make changes. And most importantly, we need to actually listen to what they say and not act like reactionary assholes when faced with uncomfortable truths.

Click to expand...

Just wanted to completely agree with this.

End result

I can't speak to the front end of education, but I can speak to the back end of prison/probation. "Driving while black" still happens.

I have been working in prison/probation for almost 25 years. Twice last year, I had two examples of it. People on probation have a long list of things they are supposed to do. Number is one is not violate any laws. We have the discretion to defer action pending disposition of the charges.

Not every officer does this, but I do when warranted. We really do not want everyone locked up. It means more work!

Example one: A young black man called me and advised me he had been arrested for Hit and Run. He told me, "I was at work! There is not a scratch on my car either. He brought the car to the office, showed me his time sheet where he was working (I already had the incident report showing the time of the offense.) He had a new, shiny black Dodge Charger. There wasn't a mark on it. Could I have still done a warrant for him? Yes.......But that would not have been the right thing. They eventually dropped the charge.

Example two: An older black woman called me, frantic. Seems she and her 20 year old son stopped at a fast food restaurant to get supper before they went to a ball game. An older white woman cut in front of her. Words were exchanged. My probationer did tell me that after the other woman cussed at her, she said, "Let's go outside and I will whip your ass." The police came, would not listen to her or her son's side of the story. They simply locked her up for Disorderly Conduct. She eventually pled to it, just to get out of the court system, even though I told her she should make them prove it. I took no action in her case either.

Both of these are real life, just last year. The deck is stacked if you are a minority. Anyone who tells you different does not know what they are talking about.

I think the previous poster who said it involved many factors is correct. We do what are called crimogenic studies to determine the factors that create a risk for re-offending. Education is always way up there.

T Robinson said:

I think the previous poster who said it involved many factors is correct. We do what are called crimogenic studies to determine the factors that create a risk for re-offending. Education is always way up there.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it would be practically impossible to design a study that tests the effect of cultural expectations on offending or re-offending.

We have those studies for education, and something as simple as being asked your ethnicity or gender before or after taking a test can have a dramatic effect.

kuwisdelu said:

What makes it tough to talk about is that many white people who'd like to think they're part of the solution don't like hearing about it when their own pre-conceptions and biases are also part of the problem.

Click to expand...

Yup, this. Especially if they don't have children who are part of these communities. White people who have say half-black or half native american children are more sensitive to the issues of those communities, and at least I know my mother spent all my childhood advocating for me. She saw things that happened to me, my sisters, and other black or mixed children and would complain.

And a lot of these white people that get up and arms about how they aren't part of the problem, have racial prejudices etc. Won't even listen to fellow white males and females who have minority children when they say such prejudices aren't gone or it wouldn't be happening to their kid(s).

kuwisdelu said:

We need solutions that empower people in the black community and put them in positions to make changes. And most importantly, we need to actually listen to what they say and not act like reactionary assholes when faced with uncomfortable truths.

Click to expand...

I'm going to echo Kaitie and agree completely with this. You're 100% right.

kuwisdelu said:

I can't speak for African Americans, but as a Native American, I can't think of any of my 18+ year old male cousins who haven't been to jail.

Click to expand...

I'm from Belfast, so I'll see ya male cousins and raise you....pretty much everyone I grew up with.

Now, being white and female means I'll probably be accused of being 'privileged' by some, but where I grew up people were POOR. And I'm not talking about being on low incomes, I'm talking being so shit poor that for many of the people who lived where we did there was no food in the house, no electricity and hand me downs were a luxury.

That sort of poverty will only ever breed crime. For a lot of the folks I know it wasn't a career choice but born from necessity - steal or starve.

I grew up in, what we affectionately refer to as 'The Troubles', and people were judged on their names, were they lived. No matter how desperate you might have been for work, you wouldn't take a job in certain areas if you had the wrong surname, wrong religion. So, low skilled folks ended up in low skilled jobs in the local area. No one moved out, or moved up. You got a job because you knew someone who worked there already. That was just how things were.

Now, half a mile away from where I grew up, in one of the worst housing estates you can imagine, there were millionaires living in luxury, wanting for nothing. That sort of thing can lead to resentment.

I remember the first of our neighbours to get a car - that was a HUGE deal. Or getting heating put in, or a telephone.

People growing up in that environment, who don't know anything else, suffer long term. It's hard to break out of that cycle.

We all went to the primary school on the estate - which is still there. There were 35 kids in my class and most of our teachers were scared of them. These were kids who were used to having to fight tooth and nail for everything in their lives and they weren't scared of an adult they knew wasn't allowed to touch them. At least there were free school means for the kids who couldn't afford them, and grants to pay for uniforms and supplies. So that was a big help to a lot of people. We also got free milk every day at school, which was often the only real calcium source that some of those kids had. Now, the meals weren't great, and they were pretty heavy handed with the potatoes, but they were hot and there was plenty of it.

As a result of a combination of this, most of the kids I went to school with had dropped out of school by 16 with no qualifications. Some of them ended up in prison, some of them ended up dead before they were 20. I was the first person in my family to go to university. Hell, I was the first person in my street to go. The only one of my childhood friends who even stayed at school until 18.

Now, this is JUST the effects of poverty. You combine that with poor local education systems and issues with race and nationality and you have a serious problem in many areas.

Currently we don't have a comprehensive schooling system here - so you can chose which school to send your kids to within reason. If we go to a comprehensive system then you have to send your kids to the closest school, places permitting, or send them private. That then means that, in socially deprived areas, you will have a single education choice, which will be full of other socially deprived people, often underfunded, and without a doubt lacking the best quality of teachers - after all, how many people chose a bad school in a bad area as their first choice when taking a job?

When we add race, religion and nationionality and even gender into the mix, it gets even worse. The fact of the matter is that a huge majority of non-white people in white areas have, at some stage in their families history, been immigrants - and not always voluntarily. Slavery was only abolished in the UK in 1833, and I believe 1865 in the US. That's only 150 years ago. My grandparents are pushing 100, so their parents would have been around for those times. Compare that with the fact that it can take many generations to break out of a poverty cycle - and that's without the associated negative social attitudes towards race etc - and it's hardly any wonder that so many minority races are struggling with extreme poverty, social deprivation and an increased chance of crime etc.

Another issue to add is the effects that being a woman caused on the family finances. The Civil service here wouldn't employ married women, and up until the 1970's/80's, if you got married you had to leave your job. So now you add gender discrimination to a period where we had depression, strikes and the closure of many factories and pits where low paid, low skilled male workers earned the only income in their family.

Statistically speaking you are more likely to be a single parent if you come from a low income family to begin with, and being a single parent puts you at a further statistical likelihood of continuing to live, or ending up living in extreme poverty. I know a lot of media sources like to bang on about the 'easy life' of living off benefits, but I can tell you from personal experience that it's completely shit - both physically and mentally. There are very few things that can make you feel as worthless and useless as trying to feed and clothe your kids yourself and try to improve your own employment prospects on a mere £70 a week. Work and you lose your benefit, study and you struggle with crippling childcare costs. The system we have KEEPS poor people in poverty because they can't afford to get out of it.

What makes it tough to talk about is that many white people who'd like to think they're part of the solution don't like hearing about it when their own pre-conceptions and biases are also part of the problem.

Click to expand...

I don't really like these sort of generalisations, but I do understand what you are saying. That said, where I used to live, being white and English speaking firmly put me in the minority when it came to my neighbours.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's just white people who struggle to comprehend many of these issues and difficulties.

milkweed said:

Actually I was a nanny to the oober rich back in the day and you'd be quite suprised! Land rich and cash poor comes to mind! One family I worked for the kids lunch every day was two chopped tomatoes, chopped onion, and a teeny tiney bit of feta cheese. This is what the three kids, and I, ate every day at lunch for a full year. NOW this may be more nutitious than eating chips and hotdogs for lunch, but not by much.

Click to expand...

I know several of those type of families. It's not poverty that makes rich people do this, it's modern faddy thinking usually.

Cathy C said:

If you haven't visited and seen the requests for simple things like children's books in the room of an inner city elementary because the school doesn't have enough in the library, you should visit and donate. It'll break your heart to read about a teacher who is assigned just ONE REAM of copy paper (500 sheets) to last the entire school year and is just asking to get a case of paper to share with the kids for drawing and copying chapters out of textbooks (because there are only enough textbooks to keep in the rooms, so kids cant't take them home), or a wish for a microscope because there's not a single one in the rural K-12 school. Or sports equipment because there are only adult sized balls available for little kids who can't handle them and get frustrated. I know first hand about these particular kinds of requests because I helped fund them, or funded them in full. That's the nice part about Donors Choose--you can just give a few dollars if that's all you have. Many individual dollar donations can buy desperately needed books (or musical instruments, or goggles for science experiments.) made unreachable by poverty schools when you have to buy 20-30 of each item.

Click to expand...

That's a really great cause, and I wonder if there is something locally like that here. I know that my daughters school, which isn't well off and is very small, relies on a lot of help from outside - the year before last the school did a lot of it's own fundraising, parents and local people helped to buy the kids a big climbing frame thing, and parents provided the growing corner and plants etc.

Xelebes said:

Isn't that called a Greek salad? Feta cheese ain't cheap. I remember being in lower middle class and in the bottom of the 90s, I brought nothing but crackers because that was all we had in the house after I couldn't get at the bread to make sandwiches. There was no cafeteria in the school (most schools in Alberta do not have cafeterias save for high schools.)

Click to expand...

My daughters school doesn't have a cafeteria / canteen. But there is only 60 of them and I guess it just wasn't financially viable as the school expanded. I haven't heard of it in any of the bigger schools locally, but I guess it's only a matter of time. Canteens are big and land is expensive. I guess it's just another way to save money. Most of the schools round here don't have any sort of playing fields etc for sports and tend to pool their resources or have to pay to use local leisure facilities.

Don said:

What you describe as a comprehensive system is essentially what we have in the US, but efforts to introduce charter schools or other school choice options are most often met with strong resistance, generally most strongly from the left, which has always struck me as odd.

When public welfare benefits expanded from single-choice food lines of meat and cheese to cash benefits that could be spent for normal groceries, it was lauded as a huge advance in the humanity of welfare systems. Yet when one mentions offering parents the choice to shop around for their children't education instead of taking whatever's offered in the local community, it's derided as a heartless plan for some reason.

As in your case, socially deprived areas become enclaves of bad education, and the kids born there by accident of birth are stuck with a poorly-financed education.

Click to expand...

For sure. It's a terrible systm that doesn't allow for parents to make choices based on the needs of their children.

It's why we chose to send our daughter to a small Catholic parish school which was, at the time, 25 miles away from our home. We wanted her to have the best possible education available and the only option we had at the time was sending her to the local primary - not really an option at all - private school, which we couldn't afford, or a church school, which has all the benefits of private education, but is free.

In Alberta and Ontario, there are two choices offered: Catholic and Public. They don't come with their own problems, especially when fighting erupts between the two student bodies. However, a more pernicuous problem is that white parents in multi-ethnic neighbourhoods will likely send their children to catholic students while the other parents avoid or do not know about the catholic schools. This system is becoming more apparent recently in Ontario as parents have been winning the right for their children attending Catholic schools to not attend the religious component of schools.

A similar scenario exists with French immersion and English schools, but the issue of race being selected by the parents is less of an issue. Achiever parents send their children to French immersion while parents who are less go-getters send their children to English schools.

Xelebes said:

In Alberta and Ontario, there are two choices offered: Catholic and Public. They don't come with their own problems, especially when fighting erupts between the two student bodies. However, a more pernicuous problem is that white parents in multi-ethnic neighbourhoods will likely send their children to catholic students while the other parents avoid or do not know about the catholic schools. This system is becoming more apparent recently in Ontario as parents have been winning the right for their children attending Catholic schools to not attend the religious component of schools.

A similar scenario exists with French immersion and English schools, but the issue of race being selected by the parents is less of an issue. Achiever parents send their children to French immersion while parents who are less go-getters send their children to English schools.

Click to expand...

My daughters school is the same, it's a pretty mixed bunch. Although the school is officially a Catholic school, there are 7 kids in her year group at school and only three of them are taking their first confession this year. All the kids have the option of opting out of religion, but to my knowledge no one ever has. I myself am not Catholic, but my ex was and it was important to him that she have a Catholic upbrining, so the school, along with it's other benefits, suited us. The school, and the priest, don't care that I;m not Catholic, and with the recent Sacraments etc at the school, although I supported my daught, I didn't participate - her dad did though - it earned me some funny looks from some other parents, but both my daughter, her father and her priest understand the situation and how it's not really appropriate for me to participate.

Don said:

What you describe as a comprehensive system is essentially what we have in the US, but efforts to introduce charter schools or other school choice options are most often met with strong resistance, generally most strongly from the left, which has always struck me as odd.

Click to expand...

One problem is public funding of private schools (with voucher programs) too often funds religious education and indoctrination by those running these schools, going against the First Amendment. I've seen stories in the last year or so where this happens in Southern states.

When public welfare benefits expanded from single-choice food lines of meat and cheese to cash benefits that could be spent for normal groceries, it was lauded as a huge advance in the humanity of welfare systems. Yet when one mentions offering parents the choice to shop around for their children't education instead of taking whatever's offered in the local community, it's derided as a heartless plan for some reason.

As in your case, socially deprived areas become enclaves of bad education, and the kids born there by accident of birth are stuck with a poorly-financed education.

Click to expand...

I've been reading Susan Blackmore's articles in The Guardian (I'm a fan of her nonfiction books), and was a bit shocked to read her rejection of choice here - she discusses doctors and hospitals, but also mentions schools. Perhaps it's a UK thing:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/jun/02/givemelesschoice

benbradley said:

One problem is public funding of private schools (with voucher programs) too often funds religious education and indoctrination by those running these schools, going against the First Amendment. I've seen stories in the last year or so where this happens in Southern states.

Click to expand...

Not so much of a problem here. And I hope it never is.

I've been reading Susan Blackmore's articles in The Guardian (I'm a fan of her nonfiction books), and was a bit shocked to read her rejection of choice here - she discusses doctors and hospitals, but also mentions schools. Perhaps it's a UK thing:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/jun/02/givemelesschoice

Click to expand...

Hmmm. First world problems, much?

The majority of people I know welcome choice, embrace it and take the opportunity to educate themselves about the choices available, not whine about it in National newspapers.

How terrible to have multiple choices when it comes to healthcare and education .

I'm just going to echo what I said up thread. I don't know about anywhere else but in the US part of the problem is that not only are black parents not listened to when they say it's an issue. They get framed as the angry black person by the mostly white populace for stiring the pot if they dare bring it up.

In addition to this dismissiveness of those that were never in the position of racial privlage, it also is extended to white males and females who have kids that are part of a minority group. Almost like you lose credibility when you procreate outside your race in the subconsious minds of those who ( generally those saying this are white )want to say we are a post racial nation. That way of thinking leads to stories like the one I told up thread, or schools fighting to keep a black kid because they don't have enough students of that demographic.