Hank Aaron calls out Republicans, gets new round of hate mail

rugcat

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And lets not forget his brilliant 'you didn't build that' comment directed at business owners.
A very telling comment, but not so much about Obama as about those who bring it up. That quote was taken out of context and the meaning deliberately distorted for right wing talking points..

Are you simply unaware of the context and what was actually said, or, like many on the right, don't care?
The man is an idiot. It has nothing to do with his skin tone, and everything to do with this natural ability to sound like an arrogant douche with a huge superiority complex.
I would love to make the obvious comment here, but the post would get deleted, I'd guess.
 

benluby

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A very telling comment, but not so much about Obama as about those who bring it up. That quote was taken out of context and the meaning deliberately distorted for right wing talking points..

Are you simply unaware of the context and what was actually said, or, like many on the right, don't care?I would love to make the obvious comment here, but the post would get deleted, I'd guess.


Go for it. I have a thick hide and really don't care either way.
I'll give him credit for one thing: He backpedals better than anyone I've ever seen.


As for the previous poster and their 'you misquoted him' comment? Here's the actual quote:

"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."


As for his 'you didn't build that' comment?
There was no misquoting it at all. The comment was directly aimed at laying guilt on success.
That's his choice. A lot of people are quite happy to complain about someone else success. Reason being, it's a lot easier to make excuses and bitch than to go do something.
 

clintl

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He's overcome a great deal of it in his life. It's ridiculous to try to claim that someone who's both successful and black can't have been affected by it.

Like actual death threats. Because of his skin color and his accomplishments.
 

raburrell

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As for the previous poster and their 'you misquoted him' comment? Here's the actual quote:
No, here's the actual quote:
You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations
Nothing in there says 'i'm coming for your guns'.

As for his 'you didn't build that' comment?
There was no misquoting it at all. The comment was directly aimed at laying guilt on success.
Didn't say you misquoted that one. But your interpretation of it is bogus.

That's his choice. A lot of people are quite happy to complain about someone else success. Reason being, it's a lot easier to make excuses and bitch than to go do something.
Sure. But that's not what he did.
Bitching about other people being at fault for one's own lack of success is not a phenomenon exclusive to the left.
 
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benluby

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Like actual death threats. Because of his skin color and his accomplishments.


Issuing death threats they should track them down and lock them up. Whether they determine it wasn't a legitimate threat or not, there should be a fine and/or imprisonment imposed.
I am all for free speech, even from those who I cannot stand to listen to, but when you start issuing threats/calling on people to violently harm another person? I have issues with that.
Racism still exists. Anyone denying that is an utter and abject fool. It's nowhere near as prevalent as it was forty years ago (I am fortunate enough to live in Georgia, have for decades, so I get a birds eye view of the average citizen), and racism is nowhere near as bad as one would believe if they follow the media.
In fact, racism is pretty much an 'across the board' issue now. We've got racists from all races. They just don't make good headlines.
 

rugcat

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As for his 'you didn't build that' comment?
There was no misquoting it at all. The comment was directly aimed at laying guilt on success.
Bullshit.

In the two-and-a-half-minute video, Obama is shown saying: “f you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart.” And, then, he says: “If you got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.” Everything the president said in between those two quotes — and before and after them — was left out.


http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/you-didnt-build-that-uncut-and-unedited/

You're not ignorant. You know perfectly well what the context was. It's total intellectual dishonesty, which makes an actual discussion pointless as well as unpleasant.
 

Lillith1991

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Benluby, I disagree completely with you on this one. It's still just ass bad, only it's no longer seen as socially acceptable so it has gone under ground. The methods are more subversive now. Teachers who automaticly don't mark children with "black" names as high as they should etc.
 
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Celia Cyanide

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When I say I am not a racist. I know it and I mean it. The statement could be a lie but it doesn't mean always is.
If I ask "Am I" it doesn't sound like I am sure of it.

The thing is, though, "I'm not racist" and/or "What I am saying/doing is not racist" is often what people say, and indeed believe, when they actually are. The only person I have ever actually heard identify himself as racist is Tom Metzger. That doesn't mean that anyone who is not the leader of the White Aryan Resistance is cleared of all racism, just because they "know" they're not.

I can think of examples of people who looked at others a certain way, then got older and realized that perhaps their perceptions were a bit racist. And yet, at the time, they certainly "knew" they weren't racist.
 

kuwisdelu

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(I am fortunate enough to live in Georgia, have for decades, so I get a birds eye view of the average citizen),

What does that even mean?

and racism is nowhere near as bad as one would believe if they follow the media.

Does "the media" characterize it well? No.

Does that make it "nowhere near as bad"? No.

In fact, racism is pretty much an 'across the board' issue now. We've got racists from all races. They just don't make good headlines.

Uh-huh.

Republicans have gotten a lot of mileage out of the reverse racism card.

I suppose it's natural to feel persecuted when one's position of privilege is threatened.

Still doesn't change reality however warped their impression of it may be.
 

Haggis

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Meh. Maybe he should have given attribution to Elizabeth Warren in the first place. Which he didn't. But she said it better than he did anyhow.

I hear all this, you know, 'Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever.' No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own — nobody. You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.
 

raburrell

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Agree with the chihuahua.

I can't remember how much time elapsed between her quote above and Obama's version of it, but it was clear to anyone who'd heard both he made a botch of trying to express the same sentiment she did. Though fwiw, her version set people on fire as well, so it's not simply a question of how well or poorly the sentiment was expressed.
 

blacbird

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I am fortunate enough to live in Georgia, have for decades, so I get a birds eye view of the average citizen.

Of the 50 U.S. states, 24 boast a point of higher elevation than the maximum point of the state of Georgia.

Y'all must have some low-flying birds down there.

caw (from the state with the highest one)
 

nighttimer

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Notice that at no time did I even hint that he had no right to express it. What I said is that expressing it does not render him immune from being called to task for it.

And, as others have already pointed out, he did not refer to "conservatives," nor even to all Republicans.

Except that this isn't happening. Hank Aaron didn't *just* talk racism. He accused essentially everyone opposing Obama of being a racist. There's a major difference between the two. I can support strict enforcement of immigration law even as I agree that immigration law needs reform.

On the other hand, Mr Aaron has painted every last Republican in Congress with that broad brush. He's earned rebuke for that.

I don't think that narrowing the focus to Congressional Republicans alters my point.

Your "point" is lost somewhere in outer space being probed. :transport:

You keep going on how Aaron "accused essentially everyone opposing Obama of being a racist" and Aaron did not accuse anyone of anything. Your overheated imagination is making you respond to things he never said.

Once again, here's what Aaron said:

"We can talk about baseball. Talk about politics. Sure, this country has a black president, but when you look at a black president, President Obama is left with his foot stuck in the mud from all of the Republicans with the way he's treated. We have moved in the right direction, and there have been improvements, but we still have a long ways to go in the country. The bigger difference is that back then they had hoods. Now they have neckties and starched shirts."
There must be a whistle going off somewhere only conservatives and Republicans can hear that reveals Aaron really was saying, "President Obama is left with his foot in the stuck in the mud from all of the [racist] Republicans [everywhere, but especially in Congress] with the [racist] way he's treated."

That has to be the only answer, because there is NOTHING in Aaron's remarks that put all of the Republicans in America in general or in Congress on blast as being racists which is a term Aaron never used.

It would appear crying wolf about racism is not a malady confined only to The Left. :eek:

That health care fiasco wasn't new, or original. It bore a striking resemblance to what Clinton considered attempting when he had the Oval Office, and immediately abandoned once it was fairly clear it stood no chance.

Which has nothing to do with this topic.

benluby said:
The supposed irrationality of gun purchases? Yeah...again, not a damn thing to do with race. It had everything to do with his comments and his track record as an anti gun type. His 'let them cling to their guns and religion' comment went a long way toward the run on firearms and ammunition.

Which has nothing to do with this topic either.

benluby said:
And lets not forget his brilliant 'you didn't build that' comment directed at business owners.

Let's not. And let's not deliberately misconstrue the context of the president's original remarks because that shit has really gotten old and tired.
Obama, July 13: There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.
Which still has nothing to do with this topic.

benluby said:
The man is an idiot. It has nothing to do with his skin tone, and everything to do with this natural ability to sound like an arrogant douche with a huge superiority complex.

If Obama has a huge superiority complex it could be he's got sumpthin' sumpthin' to feel superior about and it's not complex figuring out what it is.

Barack Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law School, an award bestowed upon students in the top 10 percent of their class. While Obama's I.Q. has not been publicly revealed it is estimated between 110 and 165.

According to some measures of I.Q, genius level is reached at 140, genius or almost genius 120 - 140. Figure it out.

The president graduated from Columbia University and was named editor of the Harvard Law Review. He taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago for 12 years. He has written two best-selling books and received two Best Spoken Word Grammy Awards for Dreams from My Father and The Audacity of Hope, named TIME's Man of the Year in 2008 and 2012 and a Nobel Prize in 2009.

He has been married to the same woman for 22 years and has two daughters and two dogs. His estimated worth is $11 million dollars.

Oh, and he was elected as President of the United States in 2008 and reelected in 2012. Not too shabby for an arrogant douche.

And what did you do today that was so great? :rolleyes

benluby said:
As for Hank Aaron's comments? He's got a small fortune rolling in regularly from his BMW dealership in Atlanta. Yeah, he's really suffering from racism.

Missed the part where he said, "We have moved in the right direction, and there have been improvements..." huh?

Reading is so much harder than ranting. :rant:
 

kuwisdelu

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There must be a whistle going off somewhere only conservatives and Republicans can hear that reveals Aaron really was saying, "President Obama is left with his foot in the stuck in the mud from all of the [racist] Republicans [everywhere, but especially in Congress] with the [racist] way he's treated."

That has to be the only answer, because there is NOTHING in Aaron's remarks that put all of the Republicans in America in general or in Congress on blast as being racists which is a term Aaron never used.

It would appear crying wolf about racism is not a malady confined only to The Left. :eek:

This.

Talking about race, the effect of race relations, how it impacts our treatment of each other, even pointing it out when some actions and words are born in racism...

...these are not the same thing as labeling someone racist.

I may not be racist but that does not mean my every word and action is free from racism.
 
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nighttimer

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This.

Talking about race, the effect of race relations, how it impacts our treatment of each other, even pointing it out when some actions and words are born in racism...

...these are not the same thing as labeling someone racist.

I may not be racist but that does not mean my every word and action is free from racism.

There's a song about that...:Hug2:
 

robjvargas

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From the actual interview:
President Obama is left with his foot stuck in the mud from all of the Republicans with the way he's treated.

And then, despite saying there's been progress, his next quote is:
"The bigger difference is that back then they had hoods. Now they have neckties and starched shirts."

So for him that's even bigger than any progress that's taken place. And despite any denials from others, he is, in fact, referring to all Republicans. His words.

He said what he said.

Not all of it was bad. There *are* issues with race in this country. And maybe, when both sides stop using paint rollers to color the issue, we'll get somewhere in that discussion.
 

Celia Cyanide

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When he talks about "the bigger difference," to me it just sounds like he's saying that racism used to be public and open, and now it's not. I think he's right.
 

clintl

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I've become convinced that a huge part of the problem is that many well-meaning white people who think most of the racial divisions are behind us just aren't listening to what people of color are saying about their actual experiences. And because they're not listening, they're dismissing them.

That's quite aside from the minority of whites who are not well-meaning, and are just flat out racists.
 

kuwisdelu

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I've become convinced that a huge part of the problem is that many well-meaning white people who think most of the racial divisions are behind us just aren't listening to what people of color are saying about their actual experiences. And because they're not listening, they're dismissing them.

Goodness gracious me we have a winner.
 
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robjvargas

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Look, I can't run two debates in parallel like this. When I've referred to everyone, I've been reminded that Hank Aaron wasn't talking about everyone. When I limit my points to those raised by Hank Aaron, I get quoted responses from the general populace.

I can't keep up with that, and give up trying.

Hank Aaron made a generalization about all Republicans in Congress. As a generalization, it is false and worthy of rebuke. I think there's too much of that coming from both sides of the proverbial aisle.

Does that mean there aren't racial issues, still? No. That there aren't big ones? No. That Hank Aaron did not, in fact, receive hate mail? No. That the GOP is not out of touch with the issues that matter to african-americans? No.

It means exactly what I said. That he accused the entire GOP delegation to Congress, And that he was wrong to do so.
 

raburrell

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Aaron didn't call out all congressional Republicans any more than he called out every one in the general populace. Some of those congressional Republicans are quite well deserving of Aaron's comments, the ones who race-bait on the birth certificate stuff, etc. The ones who aren't, aren't.

There's no cause for a 'rebuke'. There's plenty of truth in what he said and it landed where it needed to land.
 

nighttimer

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So for him that's even bigger than any progress that's taken place. And despite any denials from others, he is, in fact, referring to all Republicans. His words.

He said what he said.

Indeed he did, However what Hank Aaron actually said is not what you think he said.

robjvargas said:
Not all of it was bad. There *are* issues with race in this country. And maybe, when both sides stop using paint rollers to color the issue, we'll get somewhere in that discussion.

You go first. With your steely determination to lambaste Aaron as Louis Farrakhan's Brother from Another Mother, you've certainly colored the issue with your own ideological bias and spread paint over the walls, floors, ceilings and anyone unlucky enough to get caught in the spray.

I've become convinced that a huge part of the problem is that many well-meaning white people who think most of the racial divisions are behind us just aren't listening to what people of color are saying about their actual experiences. And because they're not listening, they're dismissing them.

That's quite aside from the minority of whites who are not well-meaning, and are just flat out racists.

Q.F.T.

Whenever someone says, "I know myself and I know I'm no racist" I simply shrug because whether or not a person harbors racist beliefs is not always something they are the best judge of.

Look, I can't run two debates in parallel like this. When I've referred to everyone, I've been reminded that Hank Aaron wasn't talking about everyone. When I limit my points to those raised by Hank Aaron, I get quoted responses from the general populace.

I can't keep up with that, and give up trying.

Good, because the longer you go on about what you think Aaron said and not what he did say, the longer it appears your opinion matters more than the facts.

robjvargas said:
Hank Aaron made a generalization about all Republicans in Congress. As a generalization, it is false and worthy of rebuke. I think there's too much of that coming from both sides of the proverbial aisle.

It's your generalization that is false and worthy of rebuke. Hank Aaron never said one word "about all Republicans in Congress."

If there's too much of it coming from both sides of the proverbial aisle, then insisting on spreading overt spin and blatant misrepresentations does absolutely nothing to end the generalizations. And it makes the hand-wringing homilies for civility totally lack sincerity.

robjvargas said:
It means exactly what I said. That he accused the entire GOP delegation to Congress, And that he was wrong to do so.

I must admit, I admire your plucky determination to keep digging in the manure confident there must be a horsey in there somewhere.

You've created your own narrative about Hank Aaron, robjvargas and regardless of your total failure to show where and how Aaron accused the entire GOP delegation to Congress (of what, exactly? Wearing suits?) you steadfastly to refuse to back up your assertions with proof of anything.

Screw that. Proof is for wimps! You're going with your gut feeling. Whatta man! :yessmiley Do you go to restaurants and order your steaks raw, too?

Naturally, for purposes of debate gut feelings are worthless, but it must be a comfort to know it means you're never on the losing end.