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P.N. Elrod is Critiquing!

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Rusty

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my only rush is that she hasn't said when she'll stop offering this and I don't want to miss the opportunity to learn.

I feel your indecision! For your ease of mind, she offers a similar critique service on a running basis: http://www.vampwriter.com/VAMPWRITER_Critique.htm

The differences seem to be that it's
a) not specifically for her dog;
b) teensy, weensy bit more expensive;
c) word count is usually limited to 2000 words; and
d) for more polished pieces.
 

Wilde_at_heart

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I just sent mine in today and she told me it would be about two weeks so I'd assume you'll be getting yours any day now.

One question for everyone though... In her response she pointed out something in my first few lines that she says she regularly has to tell even experienced writers to avoid. She then told me to start a scene as late as possible and have a hook.

I understand the hook part. But what did she mean by start a scene as late as possible?

Could always throw a portion up in one of the SYW areas or in a Hook me in 200 thread, but not knowing what you wrote, my guess is that maybe you spent some time 'setting up' the scene rather than just starting it?
 

thothguard51

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I got the same message, it will be about two weeks. But she also noted that she skimmed the opening and she can tell already that my opening starts later than I think. She is also the second editor that has suggested I change the name of the novel unless I want a lawsuit from GRR Martin...

Gee, I didn't threaten Martin with a lawsuit.... lol
 

Hendo

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Could always throw a portion up in one of the SYW areas or in a Hook me in 200 thread, but not knowing what you wrote, my guess is that maybe you spent some time 'setting up' the scene rather than just starting it?

I'm cautious about the SYW forum because I always seem to attract the a-hole lol(note that I have no problem with someone being blunt and tearing it to pieces. There's just a big difference between the two) As for what she noticed in her skim that is the, "Don't do that!" I started the scene with my main character waking up.
 

Chekurtab

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I got the same message, it will be about two weeks. But she also noted that she skimmed the opening and she can tell already that my opening starts later than I think. She is also the second editor that has suggested I change the name of the novel unless I want a lawsuit from GRR Martin...

Gee, I didn't threaten Martin with a lawsuit.... lol

No skimming for me. I didn't get any feedback other than to be patient. She didn't say for how long. I wonder if it really means "I got a lot of work to do on this one".
 

onesecondglance

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The "start late, leave early" stuff basically means - leave out the boring bits.

Say your scene was the investigation of a crime scene. Parts of the scene:
1- the call comes into the police station
2- a detective is assigned
3- they travel to the scene
4- they start investigating
5- they find some evidence
6- they bag the evidence
7- they travel back to the station

The advice given basically means cut straight to point 4 and exit the scene at point 5. All the rest is implied, and only needs to be shown if something relevant to the plot happens in those parts. And even if it does, the same advice applies to that "micro" scene.

Let's say on the way back to the station, the detective is ambushed by the bad guys. Don't go through all the getting into the car and driving along - cut to the moment before the ambush happens. Then leave after the ambush is finished - don't show them limping back to the station.

Basically, keep all the good bits and leave the boring stuff out.
 

Wilde_at_heart

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I'm cautious about the SYW forum because I always seem to attract the a-hole lol(note that I have no problem with someone being blunt and tearing it to pieces. There's just a big difference between the two) As for what she noticed in her skim that is the, "Don't do that!" I started the scene with my main character waking up.

IF you see that at all, report to the mods. It isn't tolerated here but they can't read every thread to look out for it.

On another note, she replied very quickly and said her backlog stands at around two weeks, which is in line with what I'd been expecting.
 

usuallycountingbats

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I'm totally blown away by how cheap this is, and by the fact that the donation amounts seem to stop at $50. I know what I charge for 2-3 hours work, and it sure isn't $50. If I had anything ready to go I would totally do this and spend $50 on it too.
 

shelleyo

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I'm cautious about the SYW forum because I always seem to attract the a-hole lol(note that I have no problem with someone being blunt and tearing it to pieces. There's just a big difference between the two) As for what she noticed in her skim that is the, "Don't do that!" I started the scene with my main character waking up.

You should report it to a mod if someone is nastily, gleefully ripping you a new one. It might be they don't mean to, they've just gone overboard and overly familiar with the bluntness. Bring it to someone's attention.

And yeah, if you start with your character waking up, it had better be because the hurricane that causes the destruction the story deals with just blew their bedroom windows in, or they woke to the sound of their spouse sneaking out the door with suitcases, or something key to the plot. :)
 

Cathy C

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I opened one book with the character waking up. A snowstorm was collapsing her roof and her cat was freaking out hearing the cracking of the walls. Very intense scene. :)
 

Gillhoughly

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I opened one book with the character waking up. A snowstorm was collapsing her roof and her cat was freaking out hearing the cracking of the walls. Very intense scene. :)

Ah, but you know how to do that kind of scene. I've read slush and it's astonishing the number of stories that opened with a "wake up" scene followed by coffee and Danish and a data dump, no action. Yours has action!
 

MacAllister

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I'm totally blown away by how cheap this is, and by the fact that the donation amounts seem to stop at $50. I know what I charge for 2-3 hours work, and it sure isn't $50. If I had anything ready to go I would totally do this and spend $50 on it too.

Hee! I would too -- but then after I read the guidelines, I realized the only thing I have ready for this level of crit is both post-apocalyptic, AND a dog dies. :-/
 

Justin SR

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When I was getting started, I'd have done it. And then I'd have probably moped for a while at not getting back a "this is so brilliant, you'll probably be the next big thing!" response--because don't we all secretly hope for such things? And then I'd have knuckled down and worked on what she said were the problems, and probably been a better writer for it. I was in a workshop a decade ago where the successful writer running it warned that most of us would hate him by the end. I still have the incredibly thick skin I grew over the course of those months. I also learned more in six months than I had in the several years before the workshop.

She's not going to say something doesn't work and leave it at that. There'd be little in point in offering a critique if that were the case. I imagine she'll be quite pointed about what's not working and why.

The big question is are you ready to hear it? If you know you have a long way to go, it could either discourage you or give you a goal for improvement. Only you can begin to guess how you and your ego might react to honest criticism from a pro. If you can take it, it can only help you.

I had to talk my way out of this mindset before I submitted. Because while we all like hearing how wonderful we are, I really believe that I've got a lot of improving to do before I'm the type of writer I want to be, and that she can help me improve.

Rather than hoping she tells me I'm some kind of crazy undiscovered genius, I'm waiting for what is going to happen - she's going to pick my writing apart and I'm going try and put it back together the right way. The only thing I'm hopeful about is that I'll learn how to do it for the rest of my work.
 

shelleyo

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Hee! I would too -- but then after I read the guidelines, I realized the only thing I have ready for this level of crit is both post-apocalyptic, AND a dog dies. :-/

I have one fantasy story I haven't submitted anywhere yet that I considered sending, at least in part because she won't seem to accept regular donations without giving something in return. But there are references to the couple's young son dying the year before, and that's sort of the focal point of the plot. I know that's not the same as a child being harmed or killed in the story, but I didn't want to push it.
 

thedark

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I just wanted to pop in and say that in correspondence with P.N. last night, she offered the following in answer to my question about how long she would continue to offer this service:

I'm leaving this critique offer open indefinitely. Fuzzy's bill is staggering, and the other dogs also had to go in for help. One has also got an eye problem--heading off surgery with medication--and the other needs some madly pricey antibiotics.

Let your friends know that the critiques are a slow process, running 2-3 hours each and I can only do 1-2 a day and still attend to my own writing. I didn't expect quite this level of a response. I'm glad of it, though, and so is sweet Fuzzy!
 

thedark

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I have one fantasy story I haven't submitted anywhere yet that I considered sending, at least in part because she won't seem to accept regular donations without giving something in return. But there are references to the couple's young son dying the year before, and that's sort of the focal point of the plot. I know that's not the same as a child being harmed or killed in the story, but I didn't want to push it.

Consider sending her an email and asking? She's quite friendly in correspondence. :)
 

Ken

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So nice of her. Kudos. A real windfall for all of us writers as well. A critique from her is like a gift from the gods. Well worth it, at any price !
 

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She should do something like Kickstart. Offer the big donors a critique of the whole book or something. While it's a really nice and noble thing she's doing, I feel bad that it's so incredibly time consuming.
 

MarkcusD

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I'm still waiting for my brick :) Just out of curiosity what was the average turn around time? I'm looking at 2 weeks right now- not a big deal and definitely not complaining- simply curious.

I'm at around 3 weeks (sent Mar 22nd).
 

sheadakota

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I just checked when I sent it out and it was March 23rd, so I'm about at three weeks as well ( ok 2 1/2) So probably soon I think. I plan on giving more than 10$
 

Chekurtab

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I just checked when I sent it out and it was March 23rd, so I'm about at three weeks as well ( ok 2 1/2) So probably soon I think. I plan on giving more than 10$

At ten bucks a pop, it feels like a steal. Will definitely pay more.
I have dead bodies strewn all over the MS, but no dead animals. Lucky break!
LOL.
 

Gillhoughly

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This is something to consider:

https://www.facebook.com/p.n.elrod/posts/10152005348391434?stream_ref=10

It also looks like she's been busy with her own writing, which explains delays on getting feedback.

Just as well she's keeping it open indefinitely!
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