Over 120 rejections- it's a long road

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Kensingtons

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I've scrolled through some of the threads and I guess I should preface with I'm tired of rejections- but I'm still chugging.

I'd say my query letter is solid, and my book is good. On my very first query, to Merilee Heifetz, she asked for my full and was very complimentary with her rejection. I have several super annoying stories like that, the old 'I like the premise and the writing is good and I still don't want it' rejections. I hate those.

The point is, is that my book straddles several different things. It's sort of urban fantasy, more like soft sci-fi, the tropes are inverted- I just feel like no one wants to take a chance on it, no matter how well written. Like I just need to find the right person. I don't want to compromise and change the core of my writing to get an agent, you know?
 

Drachen Jager

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I'm in a similar boat. I get lots of compliments on my writing, Suzie Townsend gave me a great review, ending on, "...if it's funny too, you're golden," after reading the first chapter during her "I can handle the truth" week. (and all my readers agree it's funny)

Problem is it's a weird mash-up of historical (1930s) and fantasy, which Suzie pointed out was a drawback for her. Very little agent interest, even though it gets rave reviews from basically everyone who isn't an agent (and I know how to tell the difference/whose opinion to trust, because this is my sixth novel and one of the prior ones landed me a well-known agent).

Which is why I set aside all my other plans to focus on the most commercially palatable project I had kicking in my head and I spent a week throwing out ideas until I think I have a really excellent hook (I'll see if others agree when P1Blitz results are revealed).

Not much else you can do. The good news is if you get something published, they'll probably be willing to look at your current manuscript in a new light.
 

stephenf

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I congratulate you . It is not easy to write a book, not many people can do it. Sadly the writing bit is only half the the skill needed . If you actuly whant to write for money , you will need to understand you are producing a product for sale. I don't know anything about the 120 people that have rejected your book . But I would suggest , is it posible that thay are all wrong?
 
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Drachen Jager

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is it posible that thay are all wrong?

Yes.

You only have to look at the lists of novels rejected hundreds of times that went on to become bestsellers.

It's a subjective business. Agents are trying to guess trends, mind-read editors, push their clients' work, travel to conferences, schmooze with editors, and pick new opportunities out of the slush. They have very little time for the last one. 99% of the decisions they make are made in under a minute.

You bet they can all be wrong. In fact it seems to happen quite often.

Just a quick list.

Louis L'amour was rejected over 200 times before he got one through.

Chicken Soup for the Soul was rejected 140 times.

The Tale of Peter Rabbit was rejected by everyone, only after it was self-published did it take off.

Three years and a large bag full of rejections later, The Princess Diaries finally finds an agent and publisher.

26 publishers rejected A Wrinkle in Time, before it got published by the 27th.

Catch 22 rejected by 21 publishers (that's funny).

Alex Haley wrote for 8 years and had over 200 rejections before he wrote Roots.

The list goes on and on. These are just some of the highlights. If I were to research a list of books/authors which pulled enough money for the author to comfortably leave a day job instead of just the absolute cream there would be thousands of examples.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I've scrolled through some of the threads and I guess I should preface with I'm tired of rejections- but I'm still chugging.

I'd say my query letter is solid, and my book is good. On my very first query, to Merilee Heifetz, she asked for my full and was very complimentary with her rejection. I have several super annoying stories like that, the old 'I like the premise and the writing is good and I still don't want it' rejections. I hate those.

The point is, is that my book straddles several different things. It's sort of urban fantasy, more like soft sci-fi, the tropes are inverted- I just feel like no one wants to take a chance on it, no matter how well written. Like I just need to find the right person. I don't want to compromise and change the core of my writing to get an agent, you know?

Sometimes you need to find the right agent or editor, and sometimes your book, even when well-written, just isn't marketable. It just isn't a story enough people want to read.

And sometimes, pretty darned often, in fact, the novel you're submitting at the time may do very well later, after you've had another novel or two published, but not until then.

Sometimes you have to write another novel, and then another novel, and maybe another novel, until you write one that is not only well-written, but also marketable. When that one sells, then a publisher might well be willing to take a chance on the first one.

If I remember right, Carrie was actually Stephen King's fifth novel. When it sold, when it made a splash, then the publisher was willing to take a chance on the novels he wrote before Carrie.

Even a well-written novel can be a very tough sell, if it doesn't fit easily into a given genre, if the perceived audience is too small, or if it just doesn't fit most agents or publishers, and not falling neatrly into a genre can be one major reason for lack of fit, even if it is well-written.

You should keep this novel in submission until there is no place left to submit it, but put your real time and energy into the next novel and the novel after that. Doing this is the best road to success. Too many writers devote all there time and energy into one finished novel, and this seldom works out well.
 

Fuchsia Groan

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Like I just need to find the right person. I don't want to compromise and change the core of my writing to get an agent, you know?

I feel the same way, that I have to love what I'm writing; that's one reason I'm keeping my day job. :)

The trick is to find the place where the "core of your writing" and the current market trends overlap, and aim for that sweet spot. That may take writing a new book or two, or doing a revision, or perhaps the right agent will see that overlap already happening.

When I was writing the book in my sig, I read Jim Thompson novels from the '50s. (My title is a nod to him.) They're pulp thrillers that sold well because of their simple, compelling plots, yet they also have surprisingly sophisticated aspects that have helped keep them in print. Like Chandler and Hammett, Thompson seems to have found the sweet spot where he could experiment while getting his books sold, and I took inspiration from that.
 

Aggy B.

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I was up to 170-ish rejections over 10 months (including one horrible, terrible Revise and Resubmit that turned into a rejection) when I got the phone call from my agent.

As it is, that particular book has been out on submission for about 10 months now with a very cool response. But I wrote another novel this summer (which is more marketable) and it's out as well. And nearly done with a novella (also more marketable for a number of reasons) with plans to start a third, new project in the next couple of weeks.

The key to landing an agent and a publisher is persistence. Don't give up on the projects you love, but don't put all your eggs in one basket either. Keep working 'til you get the interest you're looking for.
 

blacbird

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A long road? It would be nice if there was a road. There isn't. It's a trackless jungle through which you have to hack your way with a machete at every step.

caw
 

Jamesaritchie

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A long road? It would be nice if there was a road. There isn't. It's a trackless jungle through which you have to hack your way with a machete at every step.

caw

That's why God invented airplanes.
 

kkbe

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This is a timely thread, for sure. Yesterday, I got a rej. for a query I'd sent the day before, one of those 'Dear Author', Every week we receive over 500 blah blah,' I don't care, good God in heaven, why do I care?

:p

Right now, I'm looking at 103 rejections for one novel and 50 for the other one. At least with the first, fulls are out but it's taking forever to hear a definitive yeah or nay. The latter is . . . I don't know.

But maybe there's hope, right? All it takes is one. Just have to keep plugging away and not give up. In the interim, watch out for lions and tigers and agents bearing unpleasant tidings. It really is a jungle out there.
 

Dennis E. Taylor

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This is a timely thread, for sure. Yesterday, I got a rej. for a query I'd sent the day before, one of those 'Dear Author', Every week we receive over 500 blah blah,' I don't care, good God in heaven, why do I care?

NP. Just send back a rejection rejection. :D

"Dear agent, every year I receive over 500 rejections..."
 

nealraisman

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Rejections are just a way of life for someone who wants to get published. As for whether or not the books could be great and not get published...Yes indeed. Publishers care about sales not writing. We have all seen some real pieces of crap that got published while really well written work just gets rejections. Take heat in your own work and keep at it. Someone will get what you are doing and give you a nod.
On the other hand, we tend to over state how brilliant our writing is when, perhaps it isn't all that good really. It is hard to be objective when we have spent weeks, months, years giving birth to a child. After all that work we look at the new born book and even if it has two noses think "how beautiful". Hard to be objective.
 

kkbe

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NP. Just send back a rejection rejection. :D

"Dear agent, every year I receive over 500 rejections..."
Yep. Ergo, I hereby reject any and all rejections. So there.
:tongue
. . .we tend to over state how brilliant our writing is when, perhaps it isn't all that good really. It is hard to be objective when we have spent weeks, months, years giving birth to a child. After all that work we look at the new born book and even if it has two noses think "how beautiful". Hard to be objective.
True. Lots of ugly little babies out there, crying and whining because nobody wants 'em; diapers loaded with stinky little poop balls of rejection.

Present company excluded, of course--our babies are perfect.

:)
 
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Jamesaritchie

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We have all seen some real pieces of crap that got published while really well written work just gets rejections. Take heat in your own work and keep at it. Someone will get what you are doing and give you a nod.
.

I haven't. I read a lot of slush. I'm doing so right now, in fact. I'd love to know where these good books are that don't get published.

I find one or two here and there that simply aren't right for the particular publisher the writer or agent sent it to, but that's it. These books usually get published somewhere else. I do see a number of pretty well-written novels that I reject because they use the same characters to tell the same old story I've read a thousand times., but these should be rejected, and are.

Though by well-written" you may mean the sentences sound very good. This does happen because no one cares much about that kind of "well-written". Not agents, not editors, and not the reading public. All writing has to be is competent. It's story, setting, character, and dialogue that sell books, that make a book good, and darned few books like this show up anywhere.

Publishers care about sales not writing. Sales matter. Writing doesn't. Would you want to read a novel with poor story, cardboard characters, and unrealistic dialogue just because the writing itself was excellent?

Publishers want books that a lot of people will love. It's as simple as this. If you write a book that very few people will like, you can talk about how good the writing is all day long, but it's still a bad novel.

Want to see the best writing ever? Go to any good MFA class in the country. Darned near ever student will write beautifully. They write better than 99.0% of anything I see in slush piles. But they have nothing to say, and can't tell a story anyone want to part with beer money to read.

There are exceptions to everything, but sales are quality. Story are character are quality, too. Great writing is just a bonus, and means nothing without good story, good character, and good dialogue.

As for published novels, the worst piece of crap I've seen published is still far, far better than anything in the average slush pile.

If those well-written books are out there, ones with good story, good characters, good dialogue, and some measure of originality, I wish someone would round them up and submit them. I can't find them anywhere.
 

Jamesaritchie

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After 85 for my current manuscript, I've run out of agents to query.

Bummer.

Self-publishing is looking pretty darn good right now.

How many of those agents actually rejected the novel, and how many only read your query? It makes a huge difference.

But two things. 1. Self-publishing never made novel any better. 2. How many novels have you written? It takes time to learn to write well, and many have to write a double handful of novels before they write one that's worth selling. Counting on a first effort is a huge mistake. Not even da Vinci had a first painting worth looking at. The same is true with many very good writers.
 

luked

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I haven't. I read a lot of slush. I'm doing so right now, in fact. I'd love to know where these good books are that don't get published.

I find one or two here and there that simply aren't right for the particular publisher the writer or agent sent it to, but that's it. These books usually get published somewhere else. I do see a number of pretty well-written novels that I reject because they use the same characters to tell the same old story I've read a thousand times., but these should be rejected, and are.

Though by well-written" you may mean the sentences sound very good. This does happen because no one cares much about that kind of "well-written". Not agents, not editors, and not the reading public. All writing has to be is competent. It's story, setting, character, and dialogue that sell books, that make a book good, and darned few books like this show up anywhere.

Publishers care about sales not writing. Sales matter. Writing doesn't. Would you want to read a novel with poor story, cardboard characters, and unrealistic dialogue just because the writing itself was excellent?

Publishers want books that a lot of people will love. It's as simple as this. If you write a book that very few people will like, you can talk about how good the writing is all day long, but it's still a bad novel.

Want to see the best writing ever? Go to any good MFA class in the country. Darned near ever student will write beautifully. They write better than 99.0% of anything I see in slush piles. But they have nothing to say, and can't tell a story anyone want to part with beer money to read.

There are exceptions to everything, but sales are quality. Story are character are quality, too. Great writing is just a bonus, and means nothing without good story, good character, and good dialogue.

As for published novels, the worst piece of crap I've seen published is still far, far better than anything in the average slush pile.

If those well-written books are out there, ones with good story, good characters, good dialogue, and some measure of originality, I wish someone would round them up and submit them. I can't find them anywhere.

Are you an agent? You should like. If so, may I please ask you a question? I want to start a query newsletter and want to ask you what you think, thank you so much.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Are you an agent? You should like. If so, may I please ask you a question? I want to start a query newsletter and want to ask you what you think, thank you so much.

No, I'm a writer and an editor, but I have worked closely with two agents, reading their slush, going through queries, that kind of thing, and I've had three agents of my own.

I don't think the query newsletter you have in mind has much of a reason for working. It's really no different than websites that have tried the same thing with both queries and manuscripts.

It just seems pointless for writers, and for agents. It's an extra step that helps neither, and could actually harm writers.

Who decides what goes in and what stays out? How much expertise do they have? Why should an agent believe you have what it takes to do the job? What about the million or so queries you don't have room for, even if they are wonderful?

Agents will still have to go through all their query slush, which they don't have time to do properly now, so when would they get to yours?
 

kdaniel171

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Nothing is impossible in this world

First of all, congratulation for writing a book, secondly, nothing is impossible in this world you should not give up at any stage. However, if you can get reviewed your book from any expert writer, it will be so helpful to avoid further rejections.
 

Amy Writes

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Rejections happen. A lot. This is my third manuscript. The first got tons of requests. The second got a respectable number. And this book has gotten none so far (0/12). Either I have written the world´s least enticing query letter, or my writing has gotten worse over the years.

Either way, I think I´ll step back from the process until after the holidays, take a deep breath, then take a very hard look at my first chapter and write an entirely new query letter. In the meantime, I´ll keep working on other things and ignoring the last few rejections as they roll in.
 

Thewitt

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Self publish.

It's not the anathema that many make it out to be.

Yes, you will have to market your book on your own. Big deal. Do it and move on to the next project.
 
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