Same sex attraction & locker rooms

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Deepthought

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ETA: No.

I'm just going to wait until this gets clarified...

Whoops, sorry. I meant that some people in the feminist movement say that they can wear whatever they want and not be sexualized. Then non feminists (mostly males) say that is is sexual, because they feel the feminine energy radiating from the female form. Something like that.;)
 

mccardey

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Whoops, sorry. I meant that some people in the feminist movement say that they can wear whatever they want and not be sexualized. Then non feminists (mostly males) say that is is sexual, because they feel the feminine energy radiating from the female form. Something like that.;)

And what these men say, about what these women wear, matters because - ?

Frankly, I'll be glad when this thread moves on to a discussion of the burqa. ;)
 

kuwisdelu

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People think all kinds of things are sexy for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with nudity. And sometimes clothing can be sexier than nudity.

Even in a strip club, you stop noticing the boobs of the girls who aren't on stage pretty quick, because it's the dancing that eroticizes the nudity.
 
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Deepthought

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And what these men say, about what these women wear, matters because - ?

Frankly, I'll be glad when this thread moves on to a discussion of the burqa. ;)

It matters because it shows that there is a problem in society, and it is being blamed on the men. I think both men and women are wrong, personally.

Burqa is kinda extreme doncha think? Maybe going as far as covering where there is a distinction between men and women? I think somewhere in the middle is alright, personally, neither too liberal nor too conservative. But that's subjective too.

People think all kinds of things are sexy for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with nudity.

Even in a strip club, you stop noticing the boobs of the girls who aren't on stage pretty quick, because it's the dancing that eroticizes the nudity.

I think it is because of relativity, which is why people who watch porn often only think the most attractive people are the only ones attractive. I wouldn't know. Hmm, time for a field trip...mebbee... I'm off. But because I have to sleep. Cya tomorrow, ladies and gentlemen!
 

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I lost count of how many times I have been offended.
 

Fruitbat

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I have no idea what's going on.
 

KTC

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This thread is lockable based solely on its stupidity factor. Not to mention the degrading factor.
 

Lillith1991

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I know that most nontraditional oriented people would not do any sort of sexual thing to others. My dentist is the most gay guy I know, and is the epitome of those stereotypes. And he's a nice guy, he doesn't do that. But that isn't my point; all these things are anecdotal. Just because other people don't do anything, doesn't mean everyone will. A lot of straight people harass members of the opposite sex, primarily men against women. It might just be my background; I am pretty defensive, I don't even go to the pool when the rest of my family does. But that's anecdotal too. My point is that if it is possible to sexualize because of a person's intent (nude culture) compared to failure to execute intent (traditional culture prevents it to a point, as clothing prevents a person from being seen, therefore sexualized) then a disparity exists.

You keep saying nontraditional, what the hell exactly is nontraditional about an orientation and set of behaviors that are present in multiple species including our own? There's nothing nontraditional about it, even by Western standards. There have always been LGBT people, in every time, place, and culture whether if was a welcoming one or not. I can name a couple historic figures who we have proof were gay if needed to prove my point. If you're thinking traditional as in able to marry and produce children, that would itself be incorrect. The church had a type of marriage bond that bound the two parties together as family, and it was something sought out by both gay and straight people alike during the Middle Ages. Something else I can provide proof of if you want it.

And beyond even that, your view is inherently flawed. You have no idea how many people who are Queer that you come in contact with daily, and how many may or may not find you attractive, yes, even when completely clothed. I knew an African girl while in High School who was muslim, and wore a hijab to school and conservative clothing. Her manner of dress didn't stop me being attracted to her in the least, she was nice, had a pretty face accented by the scarves, and her clothes weren't frumpy even though they were conservative. All and all she was attractive, and the only thing that kept me from asking her out was that she was religious. If she by any chance had said yes, we would have needed to be careful and that wasn't something I was prepared for at 17.

The plural of annecdote may not be data, but when actions like mine are the norm for the community that certainly says something. You're making a mountain out of nothing, and your insistence on there being something when so many people both straight and Queer in this thread are telling you differently is utter crap.
 

Deepthought

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You keep saying nontraditional, what the hell exactly is nontraditional about an orientation and set of behaviors that are present in multiple species including our own? There's nothing nontraditional about it, even by Western standards. There have always been LGBT people, in every time, place, and culture whether if was a welcoming one or not. I can name a couple historic figures who we have proof were gay if needed to prove my point. If you're thinking traditional as in able to marry and produce children, that would itself be incorrect. The church had a type of marriage bond that bound the two parties together as family, and it was something sought out by both gay and straight people alike during the Middle Ages. Something else I can provide proof of if you want it.

And beyond even that, your view is inherently flawed. You have no idea how many people who are Queer that you come in contact with daily, and how many may or may not find you attractive, yes, even when completely clothed. I knew an African girl while in High School who was muslim, and wore a hijab to school and conservative clothing. Her manner of dress didn't stop me being attracted to her in the least, she was nice, had a pretty face accented by the scarves, and her clothes weren't frumpy even though they were conservative. All and all she was attractive, and the only thing that kept me from asking her out was that she was religious. If she by any chance had said yes, we would have needed to be careful and that wasn't something I was prepared for at 17.

The plural of annecdote may not be data, but when actions like mine are the norm for the community that certainly says something. You're making a mountain out of nothing, and your insistence on there being something when so many people both straight and Queer in this thread are telling you differently is utter crap.

Okay. Maybe our experiences are are the cause of the difference. I guess the thread should be locked.
 

Lillith1991

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Okay. Maybe our experiences are are the cause of the difference. I guess the thread should be locked.

I highly doubt that, I just know my history enough to not claim that male/female pairings are traditional because reproduction. History is on my side, and that has nothing to do with experiences but cold hard facts. Even my own experiences as a queer woman arent abnormal if you actually listen to the people in this thread instead of dismissing things told to you by the people who actually know as purely annecdotal. We live in different parts of this country and the world, and we are all saying the same thing. Have you perhaps stopped to think in all this, that just maybe we are right and you are making something out of nothing?
 

BenPanced

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I know that most nontraditional oriented people would not do any sort of sexual thing to others. My dentist is the most gay guy I know, and is the epitome of those stereotypes. And he's a nice guy, he doesn't do that. But that isn't my point; all these things are anecdotal. Just because other people don't do anything, doesn't mean everyone will. A lot of straight people harass members of the opposite sex, primarily men against women. It might just be my background; I am pretty defensive, I don't even go to the pool when the rest of my family does. But that's anecdotal too. My point is that if it is possible to sexualize because of a person's intent (nude culture) compared to failure to execute intent (traditional culture prevents it to a point, as clothing prevents a person from being seen, therefore sexualized) then a disparity exists.
Yeah, sorry not sorry. People use terms like "traditional marriage" and, in the publishing industry, "traditional publishing", but there's something wrong with these two terms: there ain't so such thing as "traditional" marriage or publishing (not going to get into "traditional culture" because that's another rant for another time, and I'm winding up my lunch break at work right now). These are two terms that have been created by different factions to create a schism and either create a situation where something's under attack that needs to be defended or set the other faction apart as inherently flawed. It's standard "us vs. them" thinking, thought patterns people use to justify their own prejudices to let other people know they're right, leaving almost no room for discussion. It attracts others who have the same way of thinking and bolsters their numbers; when somebody finds "one of us", they feel safer, especially when they feel they're under attack by "them".

Nothing is under attack. Nobody is threatening anybody else into extinction or non-existence. The only thing that is happening right now is a shift in social ideals with one group of people that has been denied basic civil rights for decades, if not centuries, finally achieving those equal rights others have enjoyed. So people have to resort to "traditional" ways of thinking to save "us" from "them". It's a basic reaction of fear of change. Things have always been like this and they've worked so well for so many people, so why should we feel the need to change things, especially when it goes against our "traditional" values and tenets, threatening to destroy society? Denying people their basic human rights is a way to control those who are considered inferior and not the "norm"; when those in power feel their control eroding, they're going to have to try something to keep that power and control.
 

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If we have to segregate I think those who are not comfortable should have their own changing room.

Personally, I have no bother sharing a changing room with someone who is transitioning and it would be lovely if they could see themselves as "one of the girls" or "one of the boys".
 

MacAllister

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Oops, I just read the newest memo from LGBT headquarters.

Apparently, all of us "non-traditionals" are now supposed to leap on straight people in locker rooms and public restrooms for hot monkey sex, in order to convert them through our sheer hotness, and thus do our bit for The Agenda.

If the rest of you didn't get the memo, you should immediately check your spam folders -- the effort has to be coordinated, people, or else it'll never work.
 

Little Ming

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Oops, I just read the newest memo from LGBT headquarters.

Apparently, all of us "non-traditionals" are now supposed to leap on straight people in locker rooms and public restrooms for hot monkey sex, in order to convert them through our sheer hotness, and thus do our bit for The Agenda.

If the rest of you didn't get the memo, you should immediately check your spam folders -- the effort has to be coordinated, people, or else it'll never work.

Now? You mean you weren't doing this already? You must be one of those Lazy Gayz.
 

BenPanced

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If you aren't receiving copies of The Agenda, I can update the mailing list with your current information.
 
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Viridian

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Okay. Maybe our experiences are are the cause of the difference.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. But maybe not in the way that you think.

Look at it this way. You're a straight man, right? Naked women are sexual to you. You grew up using same-sex locker rooms. You have never had the opportunity to oggle. So if someone put you in a room full of naked woman, you, personally, would probably oggle some of them.

What you need to understand is that queer people don't have that experience. I'm a bisexual woman. I grew up thinking it's normal to see women changing in front of me. Yes, I am attracted to women, but that doesn't matter. Queer people grow up using same-sex locker rooms. The experience is not sexual for us. In fact, most of us grew up knowing that if we do stare, we might get hurt.

You seem to have the point of view that: yeah, most queer people won't behave inappropriately in the locker room, but what if some might? But I don't think you understand how truly unlikely it is. Saying "yeah most won't, but what if some do?" is like saying a father shouldn't change his baby girl's diapers because what if he sexualizes her. First of all, that's super unlikely. Secondly, it's incredibly insulting.

So please understand. The way you, as a straight man, look at women is not the same as the way I, as a bisexual woman, look at women. Yes, you might oggle them if you walked into a women's changing room. I'm not going to, because as a queer person the very idea makes me uncomfortable. Even when there is a woman I'm attracted to, I deliberately avoid looking because that's how I've been conditioned. That's how queer people have been conditioned: to think it's normal and not to look.

(Obligatory disclaimer: not all LGBT people are attracted to the same biological sex. No disrespect to ya'll.)
 
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mirandashell

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As a young cis woman I got chatted up (hit on) a lot by men. A lot. But the only time I ever got hit on by a woman was when I was in a gay club with friends. In other words, I was in a place where the odds were good that I was a lesbian.
 

KTC

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I am traditional, for the record. So are the other 7 billion of you
 

kuwisdelu

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If you're unsure... you should be on it, sweetie.

:tongue :D

I swear I'm living proof that gayness is contagious. I'm not usually gay.

But whenever I hang out with my gay friends, I always end up having an incredibly gay night.

I am traditional, for the record. So are the other 7 billion of you

I wasn't raised traditionally.

I didn't grow up on the rez.
 

KTC

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:tongue :D

I swear I'm living proof that gayness is contagious. I'm not usually gay.

But whenever I hang out with my gay friends, I always end up having an incredibly gay night.



I wasn't raised traditionally.

I didn't grow up on the rez.

Lol. I have Gay nights. I know how that is. I don't know why my phone always capitalizes Gay. Ha. It did it again. I wasn't traditional enough to grow up on the rez. My Nana was, but not me. (-:
 
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