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MuseItUp Publishing

darth tart

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Just by way of clarification, my concerns about worldwide rights relate to the print rights more than electronic rights.

MM

I don't pretend to know all of the reasons or justifications. For me, I decided that a couple of uncertain items wasn't worth quibbling in the face of an otherwise exceptionally fair contract (that, really, don't really affect my overall rights/earning potential in other mediums for what I'm sell anyway due to length).

RE: worldwide digital rights

As a Canadian, it drives me up the wall to not be able to purchase ebooks - sometimes from big houses - because the authors did not sign worldwide rights. Grrrrr What's available in the Kindle store for Americans is not the same as what's available for Canadians (same with Sony, iTunes, etc).
 

Jennifer Robins

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I submited a short story to them and got a reply in just a few days. They liked the story and the editor gave me some advise to revise it some and they want me to re-submit. I was impressed at what length they went to in their advise and it was good suggestions that I liked.
I wasn't going to ever sub to a new small press again but I liked what was said here and thought I'd give them a try. Lea the publisher seemed very nice and I have to say, they were very prompt with a reply.
 

Jennifer Robins

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The publisher, Lea liked the story but wanted some changes I didn't agree to but she was very nice and tried to be helpful. It was a differance of understanding the paranormal.
 

kristin724

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I have a few stories that I haven't been able to place elsewhere and after sending Lea an email, she's been very interested in taking a look. I agree for shorter, unusual work perhaps it can't hurt to take a chance on a start up.

The material I'm submitting is short, so I'm not really involved with Print at MuseIt I don't suspect, but if wordwide rights for a full length print book is a problem for some, I'm sure a print contract can be negotiated towards NASR. Lea's answered all my questions promptly, and I expect an honest response soon whether she accepts my works or not.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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As a Canadian, it drives me up the wall to not be able to purchase ebooks - sometimes from big houses - because the authors did not sign worldwide rights.

I think you mean "because the publishers did not buy worldwide rights" (or North American rights, in your case). The authors can only sell what the publishers offer to buy.
 

thothguard51

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Well, we learn something new everyday. Thanks guys, and gals...

But like Momento says, I am more worried about print. You can go on Amazon and they will ship outside the U.S, so why does the publisher need world rights. I just don't like giving rights away I may later regret. Especially if the publisher has no track record of using those rights...
 

IceCreamEmpress

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I always wondered if, without worldwide rights, that was actually legal.

Generally, yes, because it's legal for a US company to sell products licensed in the US, and for a UK company to sell products licensed in the UK. The licensing in most cases governs the vendor, not the purchaser.

This is not always the situation for every product, but in the case of books it has historically been OK for US customers to buy UK editions from UK vendors, and vice versa.
 

michael_b

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But like Momento says, I am more worried about print. You can go on Amazon and they will ship outside the U.S, so why does the publisher need world rights. I just don't like giving rights away I may later regret. Especially if the publisher has no track record of using those rights...

Okay, technically, your publisher should retain 'world wide English language rights' or they cannot ship to any country outside the one where the work was sold. This applies to both ebooks and print.

The reason behind this is international copyright requires it. If you don't have that 'world wide rights' bit in your contract, then legally your publisher can only sell the work within their own country. Which means if someone from, say, Japan comes to buy a copy of the ebook they would not be allowed to do so because the publisher would only have the right to sell the story/novel within their country of origin. With the 'world wide rights' tagged onto the contract then they can sell it to anyone from any country in the world who wishes to buy the book.

I hope this clearly explains why it's important to have that 'world wide rights' in a contract, though, as I mentioned before, it should be specified as 'English Language' so you have the right to sell it in other languages should the opportunity to do so arise.

They also need those 'world wide' rights for a lot of the distributors.
 

Momento Mori

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michael_b:
your publisher should retain 'world wide English language rights' or they cannot ship to any country outside the one where the work was sold.

I'm not sure that's correct. If it was the case, then every publisher would be insisting on worldwide rights for books so that they don't fall foul of international copyright. Clearly, they don't do that and in any event, publishers can protect themselves from supplying direct to other countries through the use of territory locks on their websites, eg if I try to buy anything direct from Penguin US's website, then it won't let me because I'm in the UK.

By contrast if a publisher with US rights distributes to a US distributor who then fulfills third party country orders, then the publisher is not responsible for the same. It is a matter for the distributor, who would potentially face action under applicable parallel importing laws. I've certainly never had any problem buying US published books from US-based distributors (e.g. over Amazon).

Electronic book rights are slightly different and while I defer to the posters here who are epublished and don't have an issue with giving away worldwide rights, personally I'd still prefer to limit by territory if possible.

MM
 

michael_b

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I'm not sure that's correct. If it was the case, then every publisher would be insisting on worldwide rights for books so that they don't fall foul of international copyright. Clearly, they don't do that and in any event, publishers can protect themselves from supplying direct to other countries through the use of territory locks on their websites, eg if I try to buy anything direct from Penguin US's website, then it won't let me because I'm in the UK.

By contrast if a publisher with US rights distributes to a US distributor who then fulfills third party country orders, then the publisher is not responsible for the same. It is a matter for the distributor, who would potentially face action under applicable parallel importing laws. I've certainly never had any problem buying US published books from US-based distributors (e.g. over Amazon).

Electronic book rights are slightly different and while I defer to the posters here who are epublished and don't have an issue with giving away worldwide rights, personally I'd still prefer to limit by territory if possible.
MM

When you upload to the distributors they are now asking what rights you have retained (as does Bowker, the place where you purchase ISBNs). If you do not have rights outside the US, then you can't sell outside the US. This goes for print as well as ebooks. Distributors cannot send books outside the country where the book is contracted, unless the publisher has those rights. They do ask. (I have a book being distributed, internationally in English, that has a story of mine in it, under this clause. That means people in Japan, can buy the book with my story in it as an English language edition, but they can't get it in Japanese. The translation right was not purchased.)

For the record, I'm a publisher and this is a recent enactment of certain terms in International Copyright Law that have always been there, but weren't being enforced for ebooks. You can't sell books, even ebooks, where you do not have the rights to market them. In the case of US companies, this means not outside the US unless you have the right to do so. (Hence we have "World Wide English Language Rights" in our contract.)

When large NYC based pubs contract books with authors they buy the full gamut of rights--including translation rights--for this very reason. Keep in mind most major US NYC based pubs are branches of publishers based in other countries, so they want all those rights in case the book is a major bestseller. They will translate that book into other languages. (The Harry Potter books come to mind.) They then issue books through their other branches in the other countries in question. (And for the record, those US book publishers are really US divisions of multinational corporations. Random House is owned by a German corp, and Penguin Group US is actually based in England. Penguin Group makes up a lot of the US publisher base including Berkley and ACE. Off hand the only independent publisher I can think of is BAEN, and if I'm not mistaken they get their distribution through a larger company but I don't recall which one off the top of my head.)

Here when you buy any NYC published book there are two prices on the back. One for US sales and one for Canadian sales. This shows they have the right to distribute and sell the books in those two countries in a single edition. Other editions are different and are printed locally--in England for example--for sale there.

By limiting territory, you also limit your sales. Keep in mind, those sales would be in English only, not other languages. As an author I prefer the idea of anyone able to read English being able to buy copies of my books because it means a lot more sales and sales equals more royalties which means more money for me.

Based on my experience with my own ebook company, were it not for that 'World Wide English Language' clause, we'd sell about half as many books because we have customers from all over the world. If it weren't for that clause then the ONLY people who'd be able to buy our books would be in the US. Since our authors come from multiple countries, it wouldn't even be legal for their friends to buy copies of their books. I'm sure the same thing holds true for other ebook publishers because all of them have taken 'World Wide English Language' rights.

Those epublishers that don't--and I'm not sure there are any--can't sell to anyone outside their country of origin, which means they're losing all those potential English speaking customers from other countries.
 
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veinglory

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I think regional restrinction will become more of a reality with time when it comes to ebooks, just as they are for physical store. The question would be whether to go for full exploitation or stages exploitation of regions. JK Rowling wouldn't be where she is now if she hadn't retained those US rights.
 
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Stacia Kane

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If I, living in the US, want to purchase a UK edition of a paper book, I can go on Amazon UK and do so. Likewise if I live in the UK & want to buy a US book; I used to do it all the time. If a book has been published in the US but not in the UK, there are ways that book can get into stores in the UK; that's how my PERSONAL DEMONS ended up in my local Waterstones. The manager was a UF fan, and I just walked in one day and there it was. You can't do it for ebooks, generally, no.

It's my understanding--just based on experience, not on any legal knowledge--that while it's okay to purchase one or two copies of books from other countries, but more than that and they'll tell you no. I assume this is to prevent unauthorized resales or whatever. But it's not, to my knowledge, illegal for Amazon UK or whatever to ship a book or two to another country; it happens all the time, and no matter what I think of Amazon I seriously doubt they'd be openly breaking laws and risking serious legal troubles to sell a couple of extra books.


Also:

When large NYC based pubs contract books with authors they buy the full gamut of rights--including translation rights--for this very reason. Keep in mind most major US NYC based pubs are branches of publishers based in other countries, so they want all those rights in case the book is a major bestseller.

Those houses certainly may TRY to take the full gamut of rights, but most of the time they don't get them. It's usually shooting him- or herself in the foot for an author to give up all those rights; it makes it impossible to then sell them separately and get more money for them. If they believe the book will be a major bestseller, they can pay extra for those rights, or they can have their other divisions make a pre-empt offer or bid/offer quite a lot for them, but if the project is that in demand no agent in his or her right mind would allow World English and/or other subsidiary rights to go without some major cash laid out for them.

That includes things like audio rights, graphic novel rights, etc.


They will translate that book into other languages. (The Harry Potter books come to mind.) They then issue books through their other branches in the other countries in question. (And for the record, those US book publishers are really US divisions of multinational corporations. Random House is owned by a German corp, and Penguin Group US is actually based in England. Penguin Group makes up a lot of the US publisher base including Berkley and ACE. Off hand the only independent publisher I can think of is BAEN, and if I'm not mistaken they get their distribution through a larger company but I don't recall which one off the top of my head.)

They may translate those books into other languages, if it's successful enough. They may issue books through their non-US divisions (although usually I don't think they print them in the UK, they just provide some to distributors, IF they want to; again, unless the book is very successful). That's another reason why it's not to the authors' benefit to sell world rights.

My series sold in the US to Del Rey (Random House). My agent sold audio rights to Blackstone Audio. Then we sold UK/Ire/Aus rights to HarperUK. German rights to Egmont Lyx, and Polish rights to Amber Publishing.

Had we not kept those rights and sold them separately, not only would we have missed out on a very nice chunk of money, but there is absolutely no guarantee that at this moment my UK/Ire/Aus readers would be reading the books, or my Polish readers, or my audiobook readers (the German editions don't start releasing until Feb 2011). It's entirely possible--and likely--that Random House would have waited to see how the book performed in the US before issuing a UK release.

Not to mention that while yes, Random House is owned by Bertelsmann, Random House US & UK are not two halves of one company. They are separate companies, with separate accounting on their individual levels, separate CEOs, editors, etc. etc. A book that RH USA may be very excited about may not do diddly for the RH UK people, and thus may not get released there. My contracts with Random House are with Random House US, a division of Random House, not Random House worldwide or Bertelsmann. My contracts with Harper are with HarperCollins UK, not HarperCollins worldwide or with News Corp.


Here when you buy any NYC published book there are two prices on the back. One for US sales and one for Canadian sales. This shows they have the right to distribute and sell the books in those two countries in a single edition. Other editions are different and are printed locally--in England for example--for sale there.

By limiting territory, you also limit your sales.

Yes, US and Canadian rights are generally bundled together as "First North American." My Harper books only have a recommended UK price on the back; I don't know if that means they're being printed separately in Ireland and Australia or if different editions are being printed or what.

But by limiting territory on paperback books, you severely limit your opportunity to make as much money as possible from your work. It's not generally a good idea, and that's why no one does it unless they have to.

If your book is ebook-only that's different, sure. I happily sell my world rights to EC, for example, because ebooks can be distributed worldwide, sure. But that's not alway the best thing and it won't always be the best thing.

Selling world rights isn't the best way to make sure you reach more readers. Selling world rights is generally a good way to earn less money and have less control over which readers in which countries get to read your work.
 
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Terie

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Should this rather extensive discussion about rights be moved to its own thread in another forum? It's interesting, but it's got nothing to do with MuseItUp Publishing, and would also get a wider audience if it were in the proper place.
 

Momento Mori

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michael_b:
When you upload to the distributors they are now asking what rights you have retained (as does Bowker, the place where you purchase ISBNs). If you do not have rights outside the US, then you can't sell outside the US. This goes for print as well as ebooks. Distributors cannot send books outside the country where the book is contracted, unless the publisher has those rights.

Yes, but this is a matter between the publisher and the distributor based on their commercial relationship and (presumably) distributors ask to make sure that they don't run foul of import/export laws by distributing en masse (i.e. in such numbers as may fall foul of a country's parallel imports regulations). However as Stacia points out, distributors such as Amazon UK can and do sell and deliver UK published books into the US, even if there's a different publisher for that book there.

The point I'm making is that the relationship between a publisher and their distributor should not be used as a justification for that publisher to snatch worldwide publication rights from an author. The fact that a distributor may decide to flout the law is not a matter for the publisher where they can prove they made the distributor aware of the rights they hold.

michael_b:
When large NYC based pubs contract books with authors they buy the full gamut of rights--including translation rights--for this very reason. Keep in mind most major US NYC based pubs are branches of publishers based in other countries, so they want all those rights in case the book is a major bestseller. They will translate that book into other languages. (The Harry Potter books come to mind.)

Publishers might want all worldwide rights in a book, but that doesn't mean that an author has to grant them worldwide rights in a book. To take your example of the Harry Potter books, they were published in the UK by Bloomsbury and in the US by Scholastic (a wholly separate legal entity) and was picked up by numerous different publishers in other territories.

Bear in mind that even if a publisher gets worldwide rights they're doing so on the assumption that they can sell the book into other territories and so recoup more money (e.g. Oxford University Press buys worldwide rights because they figure the potential financial advantages of making a sale to an overseas publisher outweighs the risk of not doing so). This doesn't mean however that they will make the sale.

My agent frequently does deals for her authors where the publisher gets an individual territory rights alone. The reason is because it's more lucrative for authors for her to negotiate separately for other territory rights with publishers actually based there.

michael_b:
Here when you buy any NYC published book there are two prices on the back. One for US sales and one for Canadian sales. This shows they have the right to distribute and sell the books in those two countries in a single edition. Other editions are different and are printed locally--in England for example--for sale there.

That's because the USA and Canada is generally considered as one territory for the purposes of publishing rights.

michael_b:
By limiting territory, you also limit your sales.

Not necessarily. A publisher who has your worldwide rights and then can't/won't sell it to overseas publishers means you have no international footprint and also prevents you from being able to try and make sales to overseas publishers yourself.

Terie:
Should this rather extensive discussion about rights be moved to its own thread in another forum?

I don't have a problem with it being moved, but given that the issue of worldwide rights came about because it's something that MuseItUp take, it could equally be appropriate to stay here.

MM
 

Marva

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I would like to mention that MuseItUp's bookstore opened this last weekend. I'd think it'd be worthwhile to take a look at what they're doing. Yes, I'm one of their authors. The contract is for Worldwide ENGLISH rights, so if anybody who wants my Tagalog or Mandarin language rights, let me know.

https://museituppublishing.com/bookstore2/

I have a short in the Free Reads area, but my book won't be released until July 2011. The publisher/author community is fabulous and supportive. I've had books with other small publishers, and I can attest that MuseItUp is far and away better than most of the others for author support.

They're also running an on-line conference in October with several agents and other publishers taking pitches.
 

KTC

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I would like to mention that MuseItUp's bookstore opened this last weekend. I'd think it'd be worthwhile to take a look at what they're doing. Yes, I'm one of their authors. The contract is for Worldwide ENGLISH rights, so if anybody who wants my Tagalog or Mandarin language rights, let me know.

https://museituppublishing.com/bookstore2/

I have a short in the Free Reads area, but my book won't be released until July 2011. The publisher/author community is fabulous and supportive. I've had books with other small publishers, and I can attest that MuseItUp is far and away better than most of the others for author support.

They're also running an on-line conference in October with several agents and other publishers taking pitches.


Congrats, Marva! I too am a Muse author. My book comes out in July. I'm really excited about it. I'm extremely pleased with my relationship with this publisher. (-:
 

nkkingston

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I having a bit of a 'one of these things is not like the others' moment with the front page of their bookstore. It's their only non-fiction book, but on the front page it's sat next to a young adult mystery.

I have to admit as a reader I don't find the website terribly inspiring, and I don't think it's doing them any favours breaking the certain genres down into so many categories ("Angels & Demons" "fairies, witches, magic, ghosts" "vampire/werewolf/shapeshifter" "dragons/leprechauns/elves"). Still, they have extracts available and offer the books in a variety of formats, which is in their favour.
 

BjornAbust

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I stumbled upon this publisher on duotrope. It's been a few months since people were actively discussing this publisher, so I thought I'd inquire about whether anyone has learned more about them in the interim. Sales figures? Distribution? What are the royalties looking like? etc. The website is a bit bland, but the titles themselves look pretty decent.
 

chancerychislett

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Got a very polite rejection from them. They said they found nothing wrong with the story and thought I did well with characterization, but they found my use of tense "jarring" and some of my dialogue stilted. Strangely enough, they said my genre was "popular right now," which it really isn't. But maybe it is in Canada lol.
 

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I signed with them a little while back. My romantic fantasy will be out early 2012. I haven't started the editing stage yet, so I can't comment on that, but I read several books by muse authors before I submitted and liked the product.

I'll also mention I signed knowing the risk of a new epub. I didn't see any red flags in the contract. etc. So far, I'd say this is a very author friendly house.

I love the Muse community, and the publisher, Lea is awesome. Muse has a lot of talented/friendly/outgoing people. Sorry, I don't have any numbers to share with you yet. Once I'm published, I'll be happy to give numbers to Veinglory. And no, I don't expect to make loads of money with a young epub. I'm more interested in getting my name out there.
 

EnitaMeadows

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They've been around for more than a year now, as it would seem. Just wondering if anyone has anything to say about MuseItUp, since it's been a while since active discussion.
 

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Updated info regarding print rigths with MuseItUp Publishing

They've been around for more than a year now, as it would seem. Just wondering if anyone has anything to say about MuseItUp, since it's been a while since active discussion.

Well, in view of the reaction when I posted MuseItUp review on my list, (comment from happy authors simply poured in) I decided to interview the publisher. This is what she had to say about the print rights : " If the print book is not published within a year then their print rights are reverted back to them. If they want their print rights before then, in case they’ve found a publisher seeking print, or perhaps they want to self-publish their print book, their rights are given to them."

Actually, I ended up submitting them my MS, as the reactivity of both publisher and authors really impressed me :)

So, wish me luck :)