Writing vs. Publishing dilemma

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BBBurke

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So I've finished a rough draft of my novel (YA - Speculative). I've got a lot of revising and editing to do, but I'm starting with a bit of a dilemma. I really like the story as it is, but it's violating some of the 'rules' for getting published. And getting it published is my goal - no doubt about that.

First, it's the start of a trilogy and first time authors are suppose to try to sell just one book first. I've just heard a few agents/editors talk about 'trilogy burnout'. Second, it starts slow with regards to the action.

Here's the decision I'm facing: Do I change it now to make it more marketable? Or do I complete it as I like it, try to sell it, then revise it if I can't?

For me, the full story I have is definitely a trilogy. The first book has a good character arc and ends with a portion of the full task completed. But the overall conflict is unresolved. And the slow start makes the action much more effective when it arrives and gives more character development that will be useful over three books.

But I do see how I could cut it down to a stand-alone book and jump into the action quicker. It would probably be a fine book that way, but not the whole story I want to tell and ultimately not as good. (I don't believe that writing the best book and getting your book published always coincide)

I know no one can answer this question for me, but other people's opinions will help me think more clearly. So do I write what I want or do I change it now to go for publishing?
 

Debeucci

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A book should be able to stand on its own merits regardless of whether it's in a trilogy or not. If your book starts slow, then the problem is the book, not because it's in a trilogy. If a reader/editor/publisher gets bored in the first chapter, no one will care that it's a trilogy or a ten book series.
 

Little Anonymous Me

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Same boat. :e2shrug: I actually wrote a stand-alone that is hovering precariously above a very hungry trunk. What I'm working on now is a duology (possibly trilogy if this new idea is worth anything), and I'm worried no one will want it because I have nothing to my credit. But I'm writing it anyways. I love this story. I'm excited every time I sit down to write it. So my plan is this: finish it. Polish it. And then try to write a new stand-alone, with my multiple babies waiting in the wings. Maybe it isn't the most practical approach, but it keeps me happy for now. :)
 

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I've heard some editors say that they don't want series books, and others who want to buy books with built-in sequels. I have no idea where the majority of the YA editors sit, but write the book you want to write (and I agree, slow pacing can be fixed without killing series potential), and try to sell it that way.
 

BBBurke

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Sorry if I wasn't clear - I'm not saying that the current pacing is slow, just the physical action. They're two different things. There are some great classics that start slow and they are better for it. It's just not what publishers are looking for today.

And there is a difference between a series and a trilogy. Harry Potter was a series - each book stood on its own. Lord of the Rings was a trilogy - together they told one story. What I want to write is a trilogy, but I could turn it into a series by changing some elements. That's my dilemma.
 

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There are some books with zero physical action in it. It's not a requirement. It depends on what type of story you're telling.
 
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roseangel

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And there is a difference between a series and a trilogy. Harry Potter was a series - each book stood on its own. Lord of the Rings was a trilogy - together they told one story. What I want to write is a trilogy, but I could turn it into a series by changing some elements. That's my dilemma.

Lord of the Rings was a single book that the publisher split in to three.
It was also the work of an author with prior success with other published books.
Star Wars is a trilogy, the first is a stand alone. Yours should be too.
I hate to read a novel and find when I reach the end it's to be continued.
 

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Sorry if I wasn't clear - I'm not saying that the current pacing is slow, just the physical action. They're two different things. There are some great classics that start slow and they are better for it. It's just not what publishers are looking for today.

And there is a difference between a series and a trilogy. Harry Potter was a series - each book stood on its own. Lord of the Rings was a trilogy - together they told one story. What I want to write is a trilogy, but I could turn it into a series by changing some elements. That's my dilemma.


1. as noted, LOTR was split up; your argument is wrong at the very core, on several levels. nothing wrong with that, you're here to learn, but do make a note of rose's post

2. the sooner you can divest yourself of this notion you "write like the classics, but folks just don't appreciate that anymore" the sooner you can write something you may one day sell. if you don't wish to, that's fine, but Tolkien, Dickens, etc. all wrote FOR THEIR READER. And that is what you need to do; right now your thread seems to mostly be an argument in favor of being able to write for yourself instead. As James and Debucci pointed out, if readers consider it slow, the book is failing them....you are failing them. Many books are hundreds of pages of one guy pondering, or going through everyday life, without grenades, lasers, or dragons. But they engage the reader.

3. (2.5, actually) Publishers are not a cabal, secret society, or junta; they buy what they can make money off of. It isn't like they are somehow money-averse, they are a business. If they are rejecting, and I've seen more than a few agents and editors here mention they love classics, it is because they don't feel they can turn a profit. that is all.
 

jaksen

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Concentrate on making that first book a stand-alone. A good book. Well-written and engaging. That in itself is hard enough to do. If it sells well, the publisher will come looking for more work from you: sequel, second in a series, another stand-alone, whatever you got.
 

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2. the sooner you can divest yourself of this notion you "write like the classics, but folks just don't appreciate that anymore" the sooner you can write something you may one day sell. if you don't wish to, that's fine, but Tolkien, Dickens, etc. all wrote FOR THEIR READER. And that is what you need to do; right now your thread seems to mostly be an argument in favor of being able to write for yourself instead. As James and Debucci pointed out, if readers consider it slow, the book is failing them....you are failing them. Many books are hundreds of pages of one guy pondering, or going through everyday life, without grenades, lasers, or dragons. But they engage the reader.

This. I joined AW specifically because I had a "perfect" book that I couldn't get anyone to finish reading, and got nothing but form rejections. I'll spare you my tale of constant revisions woe on what I thought was a perfect book three years ago and am now on massive rewrite number 3, if I recall correctly.

It depends on what I want out of the book. If I wanted something to put on my shelf and say "There, I put a lot of myself into that book and that's all I want out of it," then I could have left my book as it was, perhaps gone via LuLu with it, bought ten copies for myself and close friends, and moved on with my life. But that wasn't enough for me. If I am going to learn not only this craft but also this business, I need to have my finger on the pulse of the reader. It's a skill I need to develop to be more fulfilled as a writer. The book I wrote after the one I'm referring to is getting published by a commercial publisher before my "perfect" book is, which might never get published. The second book has less to say, is more commercial than artistic, is less clever, but I love it just as much and I am just as excited to see it go to print. And yes, I do think I'm a better writer now that I'm figuring out what sells. I'm rambling into my own world here, but that's just what happened to me.
 

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1. as noted, LOTR was split up; your argument is wrong at the very core, on several levels. nothing wrong with that, you're here to learn, but do make a note of rose's post

2. the sooner you can divest yourself of this notion you "write like the classics, but folks just don't appreciate that anymore" the sooner you can write something you may one day sell. if you don't wish to, that's fine, but Tolkien, Dickens, etc. all wrote FOR THEIR READER. And that is what you need to do; right now your thread seems to mostly be an argument in favor of being able to write for yourself instead. As James and Debucci pointed out, if readers consider it slow, the book is failing them....you are failing them. Many books are hundreds of pages of one guy pondering, or going through everyday life, without grenades, lasers, or dragons. But they engage the reader.

3. (2.5, actually) Publishers are not a cabal, secret society, or junta; they buy what they can make money off of. It isn't like they are somehow money-averse, they are a business. If they are rejecting, and I've seen more than a few agents and editors here mention they love classics, it is because they don't feel they can turn a profit. that is all.

[FONT=&quot]1. Quicklime - I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but starting with 'your argument is wrong' is not the friendliest of welcomes. I have an opinion, you may disagree, but that doesn't make me wrong.

In fact, I think rose's post confirms what I said - one story, published as three separate books. Some trilogies have cliffhanger endings that require the next book, some series each book stands alone, some things fall between them. What I was expressing is that the story I'm working on is more of the first than the second. Rose's opinion that she hates 'to be continued' endings and that I should make the first a stand alone is very helpful.

2. I never said I write like the classics. I just referenced classics cause that's the first thing that came into my head. I do think some stories are better with build up - that doesn't mean they are slow, perhaps they just switch tone at some point. But when submitting a chapter or two on a query the build up doesn't come through because the pay off is never reached. Publish-ability is often judged on a small sample and I can think of a number of books that I didn't like at the start but ended up loving. I'm not writing for myself, but for the reader - of the whole book. I don't want to have to write for an agent who is only going to read the first 50 pages and make a decision then. (but I accept the fact that I might have to in order to get published)

3. I understand how publishing works. The question I'm struggling with is how much to try to tailor my writing to the publishing side of things vs. what I think ultimately makes a better story for the reader. I realize that a great story no one reads isn't worth much, but if I just try to please the publishing world then I'm sure everyone on here would come down on me for being a sellout, trying to capitalize on the latest trend, etc. (I've seen that happen to someone who said they decided to write YA because it's what's hot, though that's just following the standard advice...). Everyone says to write what you love, then everyone says that if you want to get published you need to give publishers what they want. There's a balance there somewhere, and that's what I'm trying to find.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]From your post, I am going to take that you suggest I make the first book stand-alone and try to get that published instead of writing what I believe would ultimately be a better story for the reader. And I appreciate the opinions that you and everyone else have expressed, even though they are not all the same.
[/FONT]
 

WeaselFire

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You need to decide for yourself, do you think the book is as good as it ever will be? If so, it's time for you to send it out. If not, it's time for you to fix it. Agents/publishers select good stories because they have an appeal that may translate into a profitable book. The only "rule" is that agents/publishers select books they think the readers they represent will want to read.

From your last post, it appears to me that you already know what you're going to do. You just want someone to confirm your choice. Consider it confirmed and do it.

Jeff
 

WildScribe

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[FONT=&quot]I am going to take that you suggest ... instead of writing what I believe would ultimately be a better story for the reader. And I appreciate the opinions that you and everyone else have expressed, even though they are not all the same.
[/FONT]

Fine. You're brilliant and you know what readers want. Then stop asking us and go do whatever it was you were going to do regardless of advice. Jeff and I have both given you permission.
 

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I think you should write the book like you want it. If that means a slower start, that's ok, as long as you don't lose the reader. I would go ahead and revise it based on what you think is best, and then pass it to a few beta readers you trust. They'll be able to tell you if the beginning is too slow. That's a hard thing to judge by yourself, especially if you're setting up a new world.

My first novel is the first in a trilogy. It's being published, so I don't think writing a trilogy is necessarily a handicap. The publisher even contracted for the next two even though I'm still working on book two and only have a rough outline for book three. I'd think something like that depends on the publisher.

The individual books should stand on their own too, though. You can't ask the readers to wait for book two, to make up for flaws in book one. I don't think any readers are that patient. Certainly not me. :)
 

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I'd say continue writing what you're writing. When you're done, write something else. And something beyond that.

The trilogy may sell. It may not. It's likely that the first sale will be a later, stand alone, book. Possibly that later book will give you enough of a fan base for this trilogy to be published. Maybe not.

People have written way more than three books before they made their first sale. Not all books are published in the order they were written.

Carry on. Follow your muse. Write the best book you can, finish it, send it out, then write an even better one.

No writing is wasted. The enjoyment of the game is all the reward most of us will ever see.
 

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I faced the same dilemma not too long ago, and I chose option 1: Leave it as part one of a trilogy and try to sell it "as is." In retrospect, I definitely made the wrong decision! I'm now wanting to revise and lump the whole thing into a standalone, but the problem is I've already pitched most of the available agents with the first version! I doubt I could get any of them to look at it AGAIN, even the ones who were kind enough to read sample chaps.
 

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I faced the same dilemma not too long ago, and I chose option 1: Leave it as part one of a trilogy and try to sell it "as is." In retrospect, I definitely made the wrong decision! I'm now wanting to revise and lump the whole thing into a standalone, but the problem is I've already pitched most of the available agents with the first version! I doubt I could get any of them to look at it AGAIN, even the ones who were kind enough to read sample chaps.

Why do you think that was the cause of your rejection?
 

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Whether or not LOTR is/was a trilogy or one book chopped into three (much to the author's dismay and for practical rather than aesthetic reasons) is less significant than the fact it was published over 50 years ago and is therefore irrelevant to any discussion of what might sell in the current market. The market has changed. It has changed even since HP came out, although that followed the prescription that agents and publishers are suggesting for series books: book #1 should stand alone but have series potential.

A debut novel is a much bigger risk for publishers than even a toe-curling disaster of a book from an established author. If book #1 doesn't satisfy, book #1 flops. If book #1 flops, no book #2.

What compromises do you see yourself making in converting the first book of your trilogy to "a stand-alone with series potential"?
 

job

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it's violating some of the 'rules' for getting published.

There's one rule for getting published:
Write something lots of people want to read.

If the agent is wowed by your writing, it won't matter whether it's a single book or a series.


Here's the decision I'm facing: Do I change it now to make it more marketable? Or do I complete it as I like it, try to sell it, then revise it if I can't?

If you have to choose between a well-written story and what you see as a commercial one, I'd go with well written.
 

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Publish-ability is often judged on a small sample and I can think of a number of books that I didn't like at the start but ended up loving. I'm not writing for myself, but for the reader - of the whole book. I don't want to have to write for an agent who is only going to read the first 50 pages and make a decision then. (but I accept the fact that I might have to in order to get published)
Readers aren't going to read 50 pages before they decide if they're going to buy your book or not. Most might read the first couple of pages. Some won't read beyond the blurb. If you don't hook them from the beginning, they're not going to ever get through the whole book.

So the fact that an agent or publisher might read 50 pages before deciding is pretty darn generous.
 

BBBurke

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What compromises do you see yourself making in converting the first book of your trilogy to "a stand-alone with series potential"?

Without going into too much detail, here's the basics. There's an overarching conflict. At the end of book one the protagonist has reached a partial goal to solve the problem, but the but big problem's still out there. Same for book two.

So I'd have to significantly change the plot to have a wrap up at the end of book one that makes it a stand alone - there's no way I can have them solve the whole thing in a single book.

And as it is, there's a very logical and interesting progression in the protagonist in each book that coincides with the partial goals. I think the arcs work great and are satisfying, but that would have to change with the goals.


Readers aren't going to read 50 pages before they decide if they're going to buy your book or not. Most might read the first couple of pages. Some won't read beyond the blurb. If you don't hook them from the beginning, they're not going to ever get through the whole book.

I think you're right - most purchasers are only going to read a page or two, maybe nothing at all. They're not making their decision on the first few chapters. Which IS different than an agent. I think people buy books because someone tells them it's good, or the description on the back sounds good. Lots of people buy books because they are part of an extended series. Again, different than an agent. But once they buy the book, I think most people will keep reading (unless it's terrible) and decide if they like it at the end. Readers and agents are different, so who do you aim for? Or none of the above?

Agents are indeed trying to make smart financial decisions and avoid risk. But risk is often how the best things are found. Again, it's a dilemma without a simple answer and I find the discussion interesting.
 

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Does it end on a cliffhanger?

If so, write one GOOD book first. The beginning of your career is no time to start out by not delivering.
 

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Without going into too much detail, here's the basics. There's an overarching conflict. At the end of book one the protagonist has reached a partial goal to solve the problem, but the but big problem's still out there. Same for book two.

That sounds like a stand-alone book with series potential to me. After all, at the end of HP #1, Voldemort is still out there. What's the problem?
 
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