Musa Publishing

I'm 741 sales for Normalish (Contemporary YA), and 61 for Finding a Man for Sylvia (rom-com). But many of my sales have been as a result of my Bookbub promotion. There are authors that have surpassed my sales numbers, but I have no idea what the numbers are, so I can't help there.

Filigree said:

SalesRankExpress can give flawed hints.

If y'all know someone with a Nielsen BookScan account, you might be able to get stronger data on print sales. Musa authors really can't release the Delphi figures, since that's covered by the NDA.

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There's no NDA in my contract.

I've been contacted privately by another Musa author (the second since the weekend) to say they've asked for and got their rights back.

Glad to hear it. Is there contract language to specifically bar authors from releasing their sales data off Delphi? Some authors have been sharing their numbers. I get why others wouldn't want to, but getting a more accurate range of Musa's sales - in general or by imprint - might be helpful to see the publisher's trajectory.

The sales ranks I've seen on Amazon have been iffy, even during two years of checking. We've heard about some authors making reasonable sales, and many more (apparently) with very low sales.

My concern comes with Musa's apparent strategy of releasing tons of largely unpromoted books, and making small amounts of money on each one. Good for Musa, less good for the authors earning single and double-digit sales per year. Or worse.

In the wake of the AMP disaster, I had high hopes for Musa. They still could grow into a great publisher. I keep hearing rumors of better things 'around the corner'.

I've no direct interest here; I am unlikely to submit anything to Musa in the near future. But I also have friends who are interested in Musa, and I really don't want to see them disappointed in a year or two.

Filigree said:

Glad to hear it. Is there contract language to specifically bar authors from releasing their sales data off Delphi? Some authors have been sharing their numbers. I get why others wouldn't want to, but getting a more accurate range of Musa's sales - in general or by imprint - might be helpful to see the publisher's trajectory.

The sales ranks I've seen on Amazon have been iffy, even during two years of checking. We've heard about some authors making reasonable sales, and many more (apparently) with very low sales.

My concern comes with Musa's apparent strategy of releasing tons of largely unpromoted books, and making small amounts of money on each one. Good for Musa, less good for the authors earning single and double-digit sales per year. Or worse.

In the wake of the AMP disaster, I had high hopes for Musa. They still could grow into a great publisher. I keep hearing rumors of better things 'around the corner'.

I've no direct interest here; I am unlikely to submit anything to Musa in the near future. But I also have friends who are interested in Musa, and I really don't want to see them disappointed in a year or two.

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What are the reasonable sales you've seen?

I've just checked both of my contracts, and I could have sworn there was an NDA regarding sales and royalties in them. Trying to be specific enough to provide information but being vague enough to convey an air of modesty, I cracked the $20 mark last month. Total. For the year. For both books.

I've sold over 3,500 of Persephone, about 2,000 of Daughter of the Earth and Sky, and over 1,500 for Iron Queen. I'm not sure where I stand now (from what I understand the sales for several Musa authors have shot up a ton) but about a year ago, I was in the top ten with Persephone and the top 20 with Daughter of the Earth and Sky (Iron Queen had *just* come out the prior month so almost no info on that one was out yet.)

My sales have been steady but stagnant at about a hundred copies each per month for the past few months. But I can't help but wonder what might have been with a stronger promotional push. I've already described my entire publication experience and promotion history in much greater depth in older posts so I'm not going to rehash any of that here, but my stance right now is pretty much this.

Musa doesn't do enough for me to justify giving them half my royalties for another book. I learned a lot through Musa and I've got no intention of ending my existing contract early, but for future books? I'd rather find a home with a different publisher but if I have to self-publish I know I'd make more (even after paying for copy, content, and format editing with cover art) on my own, especially since the knee-jerk line from Musa has always put all the responsibility for absolutely every aspect of selling their books squarely on the author (though there is word that will change). If these promised changes just around the corner actually happen and the promotion and such improves, I might change my mind. But for now, I feel like I've benefitted as much as I possibly can from my relationship with Musa.

Same here. My contracts are up for renewal very shortly and I have to consider where I stand. One thing I've learned in my discussions at RT and with two recent rejections, I need to look out for myself and improve my writing career. Both are doable but they're going to need a lot of work. If some of these promised changes are implemented before my contracts expire, I may lean towards re-signing. Otherwise, it's going to take a lot of convincing for me to renew. I'm also considering pulling a submission (20 page partial with no response since April) but something needs to happen at their end. And soon.

The sales numbers on Delphi reflect only book sales purchased through Musa's web page. They don't include the sales figures for Amazon, B&N, iTunes, and other online bookstores. Most sales for the authors are through Amazon. There's a lot of novels on Delphi that have never sold a book through Musa's web page. I've only sold 2 books directly through the Musa web page.

It's under royalties and sales, view sales from whatever and newer. That includes all your sales, it'll list book title: number sold, then you can click on book title for more info like which vendors

Whistler's Mama said:

The sales numbers on Delphi reflect only book sales purchased through Musa's web page. They don't include the sales figures for Amazon, B&N, iTunes, and other online bookstores. Most sales for the authors are through Amazon. There's a lot of novels on Delphi that have never sold a book through Musa's web page. I've only sold 2 books directly through the Musa web page.

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This is a screen shot for the vendors' sales available after May 2013:

The way I understand my statement, Apple is included with the Smashwords figures.

I thought that Delphi only covered Musa direct sales, but I'm glad to see it confirmed.

Re: Amazon. Kaitlin's books consistently show up on the first page of my Amazon searches for Musa, with sales that match strong sellers at similar e-pubs. I know another multi-published Musa author whose work is selling fairly well - but her other publishers are much bigger and brilliant at marketing. Her Musa books benefit.

This thread makes me sad. Each time I wander back the news seems a little worse. I'm not contributing that much to the discussion, so I think I'll keep a little more distance now.

Good luck and smooth sailing, Musa authors.

Filigree said:

Re: Amazon. Kaitlin's books consistently show up on the first page of my Amazon searches for Musa, with sales that match strong sellers at similar e-pubs. I know another multi-published Musa author whose work is selling fairly well - but her other publishers are much bigger and brilliant at marketing. Her Musa books benefit.

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Perhaps this is in a sense the point of small indie epublishers--something like a small label for your demo recording. Then you move on, sign with bigger labels, and your growing success helps the sales of the demos grow too--everybody wins.

If this was clearly stated as the deal with tiny publishers--then there would be no sense of having been cheated in some way. Perhaps in the near future as the new market mechanisms attain some sort of equilibrium between big publishers, small publishers, and self-publishers, the small epub chaps will finally embrace this role of demo labels openly and beginner writers will know 100% what they are getting into and will have no cause to complain, and the one in a thousand that does move on to become a star of some sort will have justified the effort and the investments through trickle-back sales of early stuff.

dondomat said:

Perhaps this is in a sense the point of small indie epublishers--something like a small label for your demo recording. Then you move on, sign with bigger labels, and your growing success helps the sales of the demos grow too--everybody wins.

If this was clearly stated as the deal with tiny publishers--then there would be no sense of having been cheated in some way. Perhaps in the near future as the new market mechanisms attain some sort of equilibrium between big publishers, small publishers, and self-publishers, the small epub chaps will finally embrace this role of demo labels openly and beginner writers will know 100% what they are getting into and will have no cause to complain, and the one in a thousand that does move on to become a star of some sort will have justified the effort and the investments through trickle-back sales of early stuff.

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I wasn't expecting rock star status right out of the gate, and nothing as such was promised or implied. The "sense of having been cheated" was from the lack of promotion and marketing that Musa was supposed to have done for me, while understanding I was to do my own promo, as well. To put it back on me is a little insulting.

dondomat said:

Perhaps this is in a sense the point of small indie epublishers--something like a small label for your demo recording. Then you move on, sign with bigger labels, and your growing success helps the sales of the demos grow too--everybody wins.

If this was clearly stated as the deal with tiny publishers--then there would be no sense of having been cheated in some way. Perhaps in the near future as the new market mechanisms attain some sort of equilibrium between big publishers, small publishers, and self-publishers, the small epub chaps will finally embrace this role of demo labels openly and beginner writers will know 100% what they are getting into and will have no cause to complain, and the one in a thousand that does move on to become a star of some sort will have justified the effort and the investments through trickle-back sales of early stuff.

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The thing is, though, publishing doesn't work like that.

Often, if you start with smaller publishers you never get the chance to "move up" to the bigger ones (I use inverted commas because it's not always a move up, as so much depends on the publishers; and larger publishers come with challenges the smaller ones don't have, so it's not always a better thing). If you have a history of publishing through small presses, and find a bigger publisher who is interested in your book, one of the first things that bigger publisher will do is look up your sales figures on Nielsen.

If those sales are low (which, as this thread demonstrates, is often the case), then the bigger publisher might well think that your writing doesn't have the potential to sell in higher numbers, when in fact it was the limitations of your publisher which restricted your sales.

In other words, if you want to go for the big boys, do that right at the start. Don't try to work your way up.

Old Hack said:

The thing is, though, publishing doesn't work like that.

Often, if you start with smaller publishers you never get the chance to "move up" to the bigger ones (I use inverted commas because it's not always a move up, as so much depends on the publishers; and larger publishers come with challenges the smaller ones don't have, so it's not always a better thing). If you have a history of publishing through small presses, and find a bigger publisher who is interested in your book, one of the first things that bigger publisher will do is look up your sales figures on Nielsen.

If those sales are low (which, as this thread demonstrates, is often the case), then the bigger publisher might well think that your writing doesn't have the potential to sell in higher numbers, when in fact it was the limitations of your publisher which restricted your sales.

In other words, if you want to go for the big boys, do that right at the start. Don't try to work your way up.

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Oh well, that's me doomed then! I signed with two smaller publishers, neither of which has worked out.

My experience with self-publishing has been completely different. By contrast, it has been a great success.

I will respectfully say that there are some small SFF publishers which are well-respected and award-winning and the sales numbers are sometimes not very high for an individual author, but I think the larger publishers know that and don't take the lower sales figures on early books with them into account.

I'm thinking of Jay Lake, for example. His novels were published by Tor after he had several published by small presses like Night Shade Books, Fairwood Press, Wheatland Press & Subterranean Press. So I'd say it's not universally true that you can't work your way up.

I agree, Karen: it's not always the case. But it can and does happen, and it's worth considering if you're assuming you can work your way up, as was suggested.

I think it's a good idea to try top publishers first, just to be clear.

Me too, me too--if your first stuff is big-boy level, better yet--big agent level--champagne time!

I was trying to envision a rational approach to work with legitimate small indie epubs, because many people will a) realize their first efforts aren't Random House level yet, or even Necro Press level, and b) still want to see them in book format, yet c) for some reason or other are not OK with going with self-pub way.

...If, for example, everyone's first sci-fi efforts are picked up by Tor or Ace or Daw or Baen or Pyr, it's not like they should say "Nay! I shalst turneth thy down and moveth overeth to Zumaya insteadeth!"

But if it turns out the first efforts are, after all, demo level, but one doesn't want to trunk them, then...

And, of course, if the demo turns out to impress no one, that's another issue to keep in mind.

Hello, everyone.

Here are my sales numbers to add a few more data points, FWIW.

An Imperfect Wife (women's fiction novella, released 11/25/2011): 286
- Note: My sales increased after my novella was reviewed on two popular-ish sites in 2013, IIRC. Over 1/3 of my sales are from May 2013 and later.
Hard Bargain (romance novella, released 01/20/2012): 65
Never Let Go (women's fiction novella, released 04/13/2012): 19
With Honors (women's fiction short story, released 06/29/2012): 4

I loved my editors, but they both left. That's all I have to say about that.

Thanks for sharing, Bubastes, and sorry to hear about the editors. A good editor who knows your work in and out is invaluable.

I was looking at the publication dates of your novellas/story, and it would have seemed to me that the releases coming out in 2012 should have helped build a readership - such that you'd see even a small increase with sales with each book.

I'm so effing embarassed by those numbers, but they are what they are. It wasn't through lack of trying. Two RT conventions with swag and excerpt booklets, some guest blogging, blog hops, Amazon liking/tagging parties (back when people did those--I thought even then they were useless), review requests (I learned that reviews from good sites do help), social media (up to a point -- I eventually quit FB and focused my energies on Twitter), and promo events through The Romance Reviews. I'm sure some people will say I didn't do enough, but oh well. Call it a learning experience.

I'm moving on with several new projects. I guess that's the only sane response to, well, anything.

Well, Bubastes, I think you may have outdone me in sales. Musa published four of my full-length novels, and a collection of short stories, and if I believe what their Delphi system is telling me, these are my total sales for all vendors, from December 2011 to the present, with dates of release shown:
Road Apples (12/2011) 106 -- most of these sold through All Romance eBooks
The Curious Number (3/2012) 18
Death by Bitter Waters (6/2012) 8 -- one copy sold through Overdrive, the only book of mine to be purchased by this vendor.
Big Lies in Small Town (9/2012) 12
Small Town Add Vice (10/2013) 17

All my editors have flown (one has become a rather successful romance author through Entangled). One editor even negated every comma in the manuscript just after content edits were completed (she was on her way out, and I suppose I was the instrument of revenge--or at least that incident implied this). The release on the most recent book was rescheduled twice, with the final reschedule just days from being in violation of the 18 month clause on the contract (January 2014). It finally released in October of 2013.

I have problems making heads and tails of my statements, which of course never accompany royalty checks. I have no way of knowing what actually sold, when, how, or where. The sales figures I've listed above may be off a little, or substantially, but I'd never know.