Creator owned comics question

[Rob Lefebvre]

Hey all,

So me and the artist David Valente recently completed work on the first of hte comic book series "No Return."

We are currently trying to find a publisher and trying to figure out the best way to go about it. I am seeing a decent amount of stuff about creator owned publishers, and I had a question that I was hoping someone here could answer. From my understanding a good way to get the big name publish to look at and consider your work is to have a successful self published comic. Is it possible and acceptable to get published with a comic book series published with a smaller publisher, and then combined the issues and get the graphic novel version published with a big name publisher? Is that sort of thing frowned upon? Is it a soley a matter of contract terms that you sign with the publisher?

Thanks for your time and answers.

- Robert Lefebvre

[Fedora]

It's possible if your contract says it is. In this instance, who are you considering to be a big name publisher?

Originally Posted by Rob Lefebvre

Hey all,

So me and the artist David Valente recently completed work on the first of hte comic book series "No Return."

We are currently trying to find a publisher and trying to figure out the best way to go about it. I am seeing a decent amount of stuff about creator owned publishers, and I had a question that I was hoping someone here could answer. From my understanding a good way to get the big name publish to look at and consider your work is to have a successful self published comic. Is it possible and acceptable to get published with a comic book series published with a smaller publisher, and then combined the issues and get the graphic novel version published with a big name publisher? Is that sort of thing frowned upon? Is it a soley a matter of contract terms that you sign with the publisher?

Thanks for your time and answers.

- Robert Lefebvre

[Rob Lefebvre]

I would conisder a publisher like Image or Darkhorse to be a big name company. Basically I am just trying to learn about comic book publishing, and figure out what the best possible way to go is.

[Axler]

Image is a fulfillment house...it's all a back-end royalty situation...which isn't necessarily bad.

Dark Horse is not really interested in creator-owned properties unless they're by established professionals.

[Rob Lefebvre]

Are there any specfic publishers you would reccomend I try?

[Axler]

Off-hand, no. There just aren't many publishers of "floppies" any more. The graphic novel format is definitely the way to go nowdays.

My suggestion would be to check into the self-publishing route, maybe through Indy Planet.

[Rob Lefebvre]

Hey,

Thanks for advice, I will look into it. I originaly scripted it as a graphic novel, and due to funding it got turned into a floppy. The intent being to get it published and use what ever money is made to fund the remaining issues.

[Grigoris]

Originally Posted by Axler

Image is a fulfillment house...it's all a back-end royalty situation...which isn't necessarily bad.

Dark Horse is not really interested in creator-owned properties unless they're by established professionals.

Thanks for sharing, Axler. Do you know similar info about the other indies like 215 Ink, Archaia, Avatar, Arcana and such? I'm assuming IDW is similar to Darkhorse. I'm wondering what are the best places for new creators to go to and some of their pros/cons. The distribution probably differs as well as well as print-run depending on the publisher.

[Axler]

Rather than equivocate...

If you don't have a track record, placing a comic book series with any publisher is going to be one of the hardest rows you'll ever hope to hoe.

There is flat-out no money in comic book publishing.

The days of a creator coming out of nowhere and placing a comic book that becomes a big hit due to the publisher investing time and capitol into promoting it are long, long gone.

That's why Dark Horse and IDW have entered into partnership deals (rather than page rates) with creators for creator-owned properties. There's no upfront money.

If you just have to see your work printed as a comic book--as a floppie--rather than a graphic novel, you'll save a lot of stress and effort just doing it yourself, through Indy Planet or a similar type company.

Another option is Kickstarter.

[BigWords]

Axler pretty much hit the nail on the head - although people are still reading comics, the sales aren't there to back up the kind of promotions seen in the 90s (even the manga periodicals are down in sales, which is a warning to other models). There's a company called Smallzone which is helpful if it is a "for the love" project - you are gonna lose money, and have a massive hill to climb in getting recognition.

Note: Comics peeps should be posting in Bewares, Recommendations & Background Check about comics companies, as with writers on other parts of the board. I'm not making any difference between the publisher of a magazine, a comic, nor books.

[Axler]

I've seen totally wrong and some thoroughly stupid stuff about the comics and graphic novel field posted by both misconcepted mods and self-proclaimed experts on other AW boards.

Seems like they always end up referring the questions to this board, so...

[Rob Lefebvre]

I have looked in the bewares and background section and I can't seem to find any comic book publishers? Is there something that I am missing?

[BigWords]

Originally Posted by Axler

I've seen totally wrong and some thoroughly stupid stuff about the comics and graphic novel field posted by both misconcepted mods and self-proclaimed experts on other AW boards.

Okay, so there's need for a deeper discussion (not in this thread though), and a clear and detailed outline of the differences between publishing novels and comics - only by addressing issues do things get changed. Giving people the benefit of experiences in the industry, by explaining how things operate, you are not only clearing up misunderstandings but raising the general awareness of comics as a medium. When someone disputes a fact, then information needs to be brought forth.

Originally Posted by Rob Lefebvre

I have looked in the bewares and background section and I can't seem to find any comic book publishers? Is there something that I am missing?

It is something the board is missing. People don't seem to be as willing to discuss comics publishers for some reason - which is why I am urging a more open policy here.

I'm open to more a more general comics thread here (if the room mods give the nod), so that discussion can take place about the general ins and outs - like the Cantina or the Hounds, but more focused in that comics are the focal point. There's plenty of knowledgeable people on the boards, and there are those of us here who are willing to invest time in helping people untangle the misconceptions of the industry - at present, this is me spitballing ideas.

Thoughts?

[Axler]

I know where you're coming from and what you mean, but...

I've been participating on this board for five years or so and the only multi-credentialed comics professional (other than myself) whom I recall spending any time here trying to help folks untangle misconceptions about the comics field--it's not an industry--was Colleen Doran.

Seems like what she had to contribute was largely ignored in favor of the uncredentialed seeking advice from the less uncredentialed....so it's definitely no surprise she no longer participates.

I rarely do either nowadays.

Like a number of the other boards here on AW, people seem to prefer to operate on their assumptions and subjective opinions rather than actually solicit input from people with hands-on experience--and that includes some mods.

Having said that--there are some hard and fast facts that people who aspire to be comic or graphic novel creators need to accept before they even start the creation process.

But since those facts are not particularly upbeat, just pragmatic, that approach kind of spoils the whole goofy aura of "Let's make a comical book, sell it for eleventy-jillion dollars and have Joss Whedon direct the movie version!"

[BigWords]

Firstly, the term "comics industry" is widely accepted in the UK (this may be a case of two countries separated by a common language) and numerous professionals who have been writing and drawing since the seventies have indicated that the term is the preferred one.

As for untangling the misconceptions... That is, I believe, one of the true strengths of AW. Lets use this board as a way of correcting the misinformation which has slipped through until now.

Originally Posted by Axler

But since those facts are not particularly upbeat, just pragmatic, that approach kind of spoils the whole goofy aura of "Let's make a comical book, sell it for eleventy-jillion dollars and have Joss Whedon direct the movie version!"

This... bothers me. I know that this can seem like the prevailing attitude from some members who are a tad too enthusiastic about their projects, but it is the hard numbers and harsh truths which NEED to be given to educate people - as I have pointed out, the only way that people can be educated is through dialogue on the board.

[veinglory]

I don't think there is anything preventing people from listing comics publishers and discussing them the same as other publishers. Has anyone tried this recently?

[Bicyclefish]

Originally Posted by BigWords

Okay, so there's need for a deeper discussion (not in this thread though), and a clear and detailed outline of the differences between publishing novels and comics - only by addressing issues do things get changed. Giving people the benefit of experiences in the industry, by explaining how things operate, you are not only clearing up misunderstandings but raising the general awareness of comics as a medium. When someone disputes a fact, then information needs to be brought forth.

It is something the board is missing. People don't seem to be as willing to discuss comics publishers for some reason - which is why I am urging a more open policy here.

I've seen people who know a lot about book publishing -- costs, querying, advances -- assume it's the same for comic books, but it's not. Sometimes they get mad, but after a while a lot of people get tired of being berated for telling it how it is.

Originally Posted by Axler

Having said that--there are some hard and fast facts that people who aspire to be comic or graphic novel creators need to accept before they even start the creation process.

But since those facts are not particularly upbeat, just pragmatic, that approach kind of spoils the whole goofy aura of "Let's make a comical book, sell it for eleventy-jillion dollars and have Joss Whedon direct the movie version!"

Comic and art focused forums tend to be honest -- or more honest -- about the harsh reality of "breaking into comics", but other sites often have people with unrealistic expectations who don't too kindly to big meanies crushing their dreams.

Originally Posted by veinglory

I don't think there is anything preventing people from listing comics publishers and discussing them the same as other publishers. Has anyone tried this recently?

I don't think I've seen this anywhere. There are certain pubs I'd love to see get a big "not recommended", though.

Originally Posted by Axler

the only multi-credentialed comics professional (other than myself) whom I recall spending any time here trying to help folks untangle misconceptions about the comics field--it's not an industry--was Colleen Doran.

Aw she wasn't around long, and it was before my time at AW. For anyone interested in what she had to say her profile is here.

[Axler]

Originally Posted by Bicyclefish

I've seen people who know a lot about book publishing -- costs, querying, advances -- assume it's the same for comic books, but it's not. Sometimes they get mad, but after a while a lot of people get tired of being berated for telling it how it is.

Yeah, you can number me among those "lot of people" who got tired of it.

Too many folks on these boards (including a few mods) tend to look at their own small corner of the publishing experience as their personal fiefdoms...and they're more fixated on fiercely and even vindictively protecting that territory than allowing differing experiences or viewpoints to be expressed.

[Rob Lefebvre]

Here are my thoughts on the whole subject. First of all I am trying to break into the comic book industry. I know it is going to be hard and I won't make much money. I am fine with that. Some people may get mad at being told of the difficulties and realities, but I (and I am sure many like me) find all of the information incredibly useful, even it isn't want to hear. I am grateful to all of those who get berated. The truth about the comic book industry is always better known than unknown, even if certain people have a hard time with that.

There needs to be a place where that information is accessible. I have noticed that as I look into publishing more and more I come up technical questions and AW has been great at getting those answered, but it would be nice if there was a specific place for things of that sort.
It might be worth having a small sub forum called "publishing" or something of to that effect. Ideally questions relating to publishing comics would get posted and answered honestly. I think that would be quite helpful to people trying to break in. I also think it is very important to know the difficulties and hardships that go along with trying to get comics published, and this would be a nice place where you could find those things out from people with experience. As it is now I have to search through pages of posts to see if my question has already been asked. I have also noticed in the past several threads of writers asking where to find an artist. If there is not already (totally possible I am just not able to see it) there should be some sort of sticky thread with resources such as websites where people can find collaborators, and anthology magazines where people could try to get their name out there.

There should also probably be a separate thing for comic book and graphic novels publisher, other than the bewares and recommendations. I say this because I don't think there are very many people on these forums who have, or have had direct interaction with a lot of those publishers. I know for me when I am looking at publishers to submit to, the general opinion about the company is important if I can't find any info from someone who has worked with them. Indie comic publishers are a good example. I can find websites for these publishers and a list of comics that they have put out, but beyond that I can't find very much on them. Is there a good general opinion of the publisher? Has anyone heard of any reason why I should not send them a submission? That type of thing.
Those are a couple of my thoughts for what they are worth. I am sure I have more but I have prior engagements to attend to.

[Axler]

Originally Posted by Bicyclefish

Aw she wasn't around long, and it was before my time at AW.

No, she wasn't around long...due mainly to the ennui and disinterest of most of the other board participants.

Instead of "Wow, Colleen Doran could answer my questions about comic publishers and even comic publishing!!!" it was, "Wow, I'll ask that guy who goes by the screen name of MagNEATO about comic publishers and comic publishing...he says he used to work at Kinko's!"

I call it the "guy down the street" syndrome.

People would prefer to ask a guy down the street a question about a specialized area than the specialists themselves.

Most of the time, all the guy down the street can offer is an opinion based on little more than an opinion, but hey...that's often less threatening than a response based on hard experience.

[Alessandra Kelley]

Originally Posted by BigWords

Note: Comics peeps should be posting in Bewares, Recommendations & Background Check about comics companies, as with writers on other parts of the board. I'm not making any difference between the publisher of a magazine, a comic, nor books.

Originally Posted by Rob Lefebvre

I have looked in the bewares and background section and I can't seem to find any comic book publishers? Is there something that I am missing?

Originally Posted by BigWords

It is something the board is missing. People don't seem to be as willing to discuss comics publishers for some reason - which is why I am urging a more open policy here.

Should people just start threads, like those old placeholder Wikipedia articles, with the expectation that eventually people will fill in the details?

I ask s someone who is really not up on comics publishers. I knew a little about the folks behind First Comics, way back when, but it was more gossip than solid info about contracts and practices.

[Alessandra Kelley]

Originally Posted by Axler

No, she wasn't around long...due mainly to the ennui and disinterest of most of the other board participants.

Instead of "Wow, Colleen Doran could answer my questions about comic publishers and even comic publishing!!!" it was, "Wow, I'll ask that guy who goes by the screen name of MagNEATO about comic publishers and comic publishing...he says he used to work at Kinko's!"

I call it the "guy down the street" syndrome.

People would prefer to ask a guy down the street a question about a specialized area than the specialists themselves.

Most of the time, all the guy down the street can offer is an opinion based on little more than an opinion, but hey...that's often less threatening than a response based on hard experience.

I don't know about that.

And Colleen Doran was, I suspect, before my time.

Donna Barr showed up, very briefly, sometime in the last year, but only to drop in an obligatory intro.

[BigWords]

Originally Posted by Alessandra Kelley

Should people just start threads, like those old placeholder Wikipedia articles, with the expectation that eventually people will fill in the details?

I'm of the opinion that comics publishers shouldn't be treated differently to publishers of novels - following the way that other threads in Bewares are handled (by providing links to the website, and asking for experiences others have had) seems about right.

[small axe]

Can anyone share their ideas / feedback / experiences / warnings re: using Createspace to print-on-demand, then selling it thru Amazon?

https://www.createspace.com/

Sounds like a potentially amazing opportunity.

Marketing (self-marketing) is still the hurdle, no doubt ... but seems interesting!

[knporter]

Creator Owened Comics are definately starting to push through. Below is an interesting article on very well known writers/artists who have done very well in the COC industry.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=39566