Why am I self-publishing?

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Cathy C

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I guess it depends on your definition of "selling well", but my trade-published friends told me that my expectations of sales even in popular genres from major publishers were unrealistically high and that most midlisters sold considerably less than I thought. And I thought I was lowballing.

I'm firmly in mid-list, and a lot of my friends are too. I don't think I have any books that haven't sold at least 12K copies. Copies printed are far higher, of course, and let's not forget ebook sales, which doubles the figure (not counting audio, because that's with a different company.) Some have sold in the 50K range. Depends on the book. That's about what I expected. I always hope for more, of course, and anticipate that any given book could take off, even years later. The question then arises whether, without the power of my publisher behind me, could I have sold that many?

Maybe.

I am pretty good at marketing, which is likely why I've sold as many books as I have. But I decided I'd rather spend my free time writing instead of marketing. To each his own, I suppose. But I can assure you that marketing is time consuming and good advertising expensive. One thing I CAN assure you of is that when it comes to advertising, you definitely get what you pay for. Free doesn't get you reach. Reaching many people takes money if you're not already being splashed in places where people buy books. I've spent up to my full advance on some books, if I think the cover alone might be enough to buy the book or if it's the first book of a series. I get it back again, which is the nice part about advances. You HAVE the money to spend if you choose.

JMHO, as always.
 

Bufty

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I have a feeling you have misread the post you are quoting.

Maybe my experience isn't the usual (I'm certain it isn't from what I've read here) but that sounds HORRIBLE. I don't think there's been a single month since I self-published my first book on Amazon for Kindle where I haven't made at least $40, and that's in the dead times months and months after the last new release when sales are dying out.
Is that REALLY what non-big-name trade published authors make nowadays?
 

RikWriter

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I have a feeling you have misread the post you are quoting.

Not that I can tell. The post said that authors can expect to make $40 a month per book. It didn't seem that convoluted a statement for anyone to misread it.

Here's the direct quote:

"I'm taking a class from Dean Wesley Smith on making a living at your writing and he says to estimate that you'll make $40 a month on each novel you publish"

Please point out to me how I am misreading that.
 
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Cathy C

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Not that I can tell. The post said that authors can expect to make $40 a month per book. It didn't seem that convoluted a statement for anyone to misread it.

Here's the direct quote:

"I'm taking a class from Dean Wesley Smith on making a living at your writing and he says to estimate that you'll make $40 a month on each novel you publish"

Please point out to me how I am misreading that.

You're probably not misreading. I would point out, however, that Dean Wesley Smith is well-published primarily in media tie-in novels, which aren't the best paying. I publish commercial fiction, albeit on the same SF/F shelf.

I just calculated my last advance and estimated a shelf life of 10 years (which is how long I've been published) and my monthly income--had I received the money each month--would be approximately $200 per book (I've published 20). And that's conceiving that no additional money would ever be made over and above my advance. That's happened exactly twice so far.
 
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gettingby

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I think the biggest problem here is you accepting you have flaws as a writer but don't plan on getting better. No matter how you publish, you should want your work to be as flawless as possible and aim for getting better.

I wouldn't want a book of mine to be published before it was ready. Once it's out there, it's out there. Have you tried getting an agent? It seems like you are against making any sort of changes. Because of this it might be hard for you to work with one.

To me, your post came across very defensive from the start. And when a discussion opened up, you thought you were being attacked, but quite the opposite is true. People here are trying to help, and it is not just you they are helping, but all the people who read the thread.
 

RikWriter

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You're probably not misreading. I would point out, however, that Dean Wesley Smith is well-published primarily in media tie-in novels, which aren't the best paying. I publish commercial fiction, albeit on the same SF/F shelf.

I just calculated my last advance and estimated a shelf life of 10 years (which is how long I've been published) and my monthly income--had I received the money each month--would be approximately $200 per book (I've published 20). And that's conceiving that no additional money would ever be made over and above my advance. That's happened exactly twice so far.

So you're saying you've made an average of $4000 a month for the last 10 years from writing?
 

M. H. Lee

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Not that I can tell. The post said that authors can expect to make $40 a month per book. It didn't seem that convoluted a statement for anyone to misread it.

Here's the direct quote:

"I'm taking a class from Dean Wesley Smith on making a living at your writing and he says to estimate that you'll make $40 a month on each novel you publish"

Please point out to me how I am misreading that.

In the sense that you automatically applied it to trade published books. Since I'm the source of the original quote let me say that I believe he was referencing self-published works since that's the focus of the class (and this forum). As in, when you start self-pubbing, expect each book to only make you $40 a month so realize that your production needs to be pretty high to actually make a living at this.

As someone else mentioned, before he moved to self-publishing, DWS did media tie-ins primarily which, I believe, just pay you a set amount.

For trade publishing, it's the advance that matters the most when you're just starting out. (At least as far as I see it. That's money in your pocket as long as the deal goes through.)

An example I heard recently in trade publishing: A romance author who started off thirty years ago who received either $500 or $5,000 for her first book (I can't remember which). Kept writing, had multiple deals with multiple publishers, was putting out as many as five books a year. By book 25 or so, she signed a deal for a $2.2 million advance on four books and her current new releases get a print run in the 200,000's.

And to the OP:

I don't think anyone was trying to attack you. I certainly wasn't. Just trying to give you as much info as possible.

And Polenth is right. Publishing (self or trade) can be a healthy dose of humble pie sometimes. If your expectations are way out of whack with the normal outcome, it can be even harder to keep going and that's what you need to do to succeed. Most of us are not Harper Lee. It takes more than one novel for the world to see and recognize our genius.

Best of luck.
 

Cathy C

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So you're saying you've made an average of $4000 a month for the last 10 years from writing?

Pretty close. Let's call it $3,000 a month. I make about $30-35K per year. Last year it was closer to $70K. This year will be closer to $15K. It varies wildly depending on when I sign a contract and when I deliver manuscripts. The trick with writing for trade publishers is that you get a whomping chunk of money when you sign a contract, then you get 2-3 more large payments over the first year. Then you get trickles of $500-$5,000 twice a year on older books. I get at least one check a quarter for various amounts. Sometimes more than one per quarter, because I've sold subsidiary rights to other publishers. :Shrug:
 

Old Hack

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I've got about forty books (forty two? forty three?) under my belt and earn a lot more than £40 a month from each of them: I get payments every month, from the various titles and rights that I've sold. DWS was talking about self published writers, so perhaps that explains the discrepancy. Or perhaps he's just plain wrong.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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I've got about forty books (forty two? forty three?) under my belt and earn a lot more than £40 a month from each of them: I get payments every month, from the various titles and rights that I've sold. DWS was talking about self published writers, so perhaps that explains the discrepancy. Or perhaps he's just plain wrong.

I would think the amount would vary greatly depending on the genre, the format (HC, paperback or digital) and a variety of other factors. Heck, even the time of year can affect sales depending on the content. That horror novel might not do well over Christmas and so forth.

I always take advice from these gurus with a huge grain of salt. Everyone is going to have a different experience, everyone has different needs. Jim Hines keeps working at his day job not necessarily because he doesn't make money from his writing but he needs the medical coverage according to his notes. There are a lot of variables that, IMO, make it impossible to guarantee anything in this business.

Re: the original poster - it seems from his tone that he really didn't want any discussion on his writing, just approval of his reasons to self-publish.

Which he doesn't need, to be honest. Go ahead and self-publish - but I do wish he'd do more reading than the usual suspects when it comes to the glorious world of self-publishing. Everyone is going to have a different experience and he'll save himself a lot of work and possible pain if he follows the advice of others who have gone before him.

But that's just me. 50 yrs old, ten books on the market and just got me my first agent. What do I know?

;)
 

Fruitbat

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Thanks for sharing, Old Hack and Cathy. That's much appreciated and rare info. since "How much do you make at this?" is not really the sort of question you can go around asking people! Especially lovely since a lot of it becomes passive income. :)
 

Bufty

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As M H Lee has surmised, I thought you had mistakenly applied the quote to cover trade published books.

Not that I can tell. The post said that authors can expect to make $40 a month per book. It didn't seem that convoluted a statement for anyone to misread it.

Here's the direct quote:

"I'm taking a class from Dean Wesley Smith on making a living at your writing and he says to estimate that you'll make $40 a month on each novel you publish"

Please point out to me how I am misreading that.
 

Raula

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An interesting post, and I respect you for sticking to your guns when it comes to certain elements, though several hundred pages between each subplot is an awful lot... don't think even GRRM did that until Book 3! I've been working on a manuscript for just over two years now and I want it to be as close to flawless as possible while maintaining my style and vision. I've had beta reading responses ranging from trolling to unadulterated praise and I don't give it my friends to read.

I think it's not fair to say that traditional publishers tight cast the books they want to read. I had very positive feedback from a fantasy lit agent this week for my opening sample that includes a battle scene (which I've been told on multiple occasions is a massive NO). I do think any opening scene needs to have correct syntax, good pace, and an inviting scenario, otherwise readers will not look much further.

I'd say best of luck with your journey, but try and take as much advice on board as you can, otherwise you may find yourself falling into easy traps.
 
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CrastersBabies

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Thewitt, first off (HUGS). I sense that this is important to you. You wrote quite a bit for us to read in your original post and I can only glean that you're very passionate about your writing.

But I need to defend some of my fellow board colleagues on this. First, computer-mediated communication does not allow for nonverbal cues. So, someone who might come across as a bit terse (either here or elsewhere) might simply be making statements.

Second, there is a lot of solid advice here and posts that offer great encouragement to you.

Third, the post came across as a bit antagonistic to me. (Just me.) I'm not angry about it. I don't judge you based on that one post. I quite enjoy reading self-pubbers when the recount their experiences and when they discuss marketing strategies, and (my favorite!) reveals of covers. I'm a cover art lurker. :)

Every time a self-published writer on this board experiences a breakthrough, it means I need to study that and see how it works. Because each one of those successes is changing the landscape of publishing.

But I also sensed from your original post that someone like me (traditionally published and seeking more of that), would not be welcome in your conversation. That I'd be a fool to walk into that because I'd get pelted. Even if I'm okay with the flaws of traditional publishing, you made a very clear line in the sand. Not just for yourself, but for the rest of us as well.

Just consider tone.

And consider some of the critique.

Be well and good luck!
 
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