"Let's face it: pretty white girls sell."

Missus Akasha · May 13, 2013

I am an aspiring YA fiction writer with a passion of writing black female characters as my leads. However, I also am a magnet towards negativity because of this. Currently, I am writing a paranormal story set in La Belle Epoque era in Paris involving exorcisms, demons, angels, and dark magic. My lead character is American with her birth town being New Orleans. She is the product of a placage between a Creole woman and a white French planation owner. From the start of the story, she has been in Paris for several years now living with her deceased mother's older brother.

Everyone that I have let read what I have written so far loves it. However, their love is laced with worry. For instance:

"This could really be a bestseller if you changed Aubrey to white girl."

"Aubrey is 3/4 white and 1/4 black. She is practically white anyway. It's not like changing her race will alter the storyline. Just make her the product of an affair between a white commoner woman and a French plantation owner."

"Nobody wants to read about a mixed girl trying to help save the world. Just make her white. Let's face it: pretty white girls sell."

"I doubt there were lots of black people trotting around Paris back then. Let's try and be realistic. Make her white."

"No literary agent or publishing company will want this because Aubrey is black. It's jacked up, but it's true."

I try not to let these comments hinder me from finishing this WIP, but I wonder if there is some kind of true to it. I go to bookstores and look at the YA genre aisle. All I see is pretty white faces staring back at me on book covers. All books with POC leads are segregated into different aisles such as "African American fiction", "Asian fiction," and "Hispanic fiction." Even if the book falls within the realm of YA.

The books with POC leads and POC book-covers are very, very slim. Or the book cover is white-washed to hide the fact that the main character is POC.

I have honestly only read two books with lead female black characters in fantasy/paranormal genre: Bleeding Violet by Dia Reeves and the Vampire Huntress books by LA Banks. The former being in YA, my specialty.

Do you think there is some true to the statement in the title?

clee984 · May 13, 2013

Missus Akasha said:
"I doubt there were lots of black people trotting around Paris back then. Let's try and be realistic.

This is the one that struck me. Why is the character in France? A young lady of mixed race probably would stand out in fin de siecle Paris. However, so long as she isn't hobnobbing with the upper class types (and if she is, I'd be sure to mention that she is an exception to the norm), I don't see any problem with it or any reason to change her ethnicity.

Missus Akasha · May 13, 2013

She is in Paris because her uncle lives there. He was sent there in his early twenties for a better life. I actually have an ancestor that did that. So I am basing it off of that. After her mother dies, he gains custody of her and brings her to France. It's fantasy. Her uncle and the organization have quite a respectable name. She works for the same organization too. There will be mentions of people being iffy towards her because of her race, but that's it.

I've done my research and there were a few of black people in the La Belle Époque era in Paris (my ancestors included). It wasn't exactly uncommon. So in a sense, it wouldn't be unrealistic. I guess what frustrates me about that statement is that it seems as though there were no black people at all back then in Europe and that is simply not true. One of the most famous writers of those times was actually of African descent and he lived in France.

Cramp · May 13, 2013

My question is; who is telling you these things? Are they publishing professionals? Agents and editors and the like?

Myrealana · May 13, 2013

Most of that criticism seems silly to me.

The character is who she is. Her background certainly must inform her present in some ways, so "just making her white" is a stupid suggestion.

Yes, it's true that "pretty white girls" sell, but that will never change so long as people only write about pretty white girls that sell. There was a time when action stories had to be about boys - until someone realized girls can be heroes too.

I say don't write what sells. Write what you want to tell.

Rachel Udin · May 13, 2013

clee984 said:
This is the one that struck me. Why is the character in France? A young lady of mixed race probably would stand out in fin de siecle Paris. However, so long as she isn't hobnobbing with the upper class types (and if she is, I'd be sure to mention that she is an exception to the norm), I don't see any problem with it or any reason to change her ethnicity.

Dumas was French and black... (mixed race, I may add)

But I don't think it really matters unless it's agents and publishers. And even then, there are agents and publishers specifically looking for characters of color, doesn't mean it'll be easy, but I think it's worth it in the long run.

thebloodfiend · May 13, 2013

My god, I hate when people make stupid comments like this regarding fantasy novels. It's fantasy. You can write whatever the hell you want. Why is it okay to have witches and exorcisms, but black people in France during the 1860's is soooo unrealistic.

It's people like them who reinforce "pretty white girls sell" because they persuade people to only write "pretty white girl books" because of their own prejudices. If a single beta reader ever said one of those comments to me, I would never, ever use them again. Yes, there's some truth to their comments—and only because they reinforce them.

I bet there weren't any dwarves trotting around the middle-east 2000 years ago, either.

Fantasy can bend rules and histories and timelines. I, personally, am sick of *some* fantasy writers making it a norm to include loads of "factual" sexism and racism and insisting it belongs, while writing about dragons and elves.

Lavern08 · May 13, 2013

thebloodfiend said:
It's fantasy. You can write whatever the hell you want.

Fantasy can bend rules and histories and timelines...

Word.

JulianneQJohnson · May 13, 2013

Is it true that “white girls sell?” Yes. Is it true that the store I was in recently had POC groups separated into separate groups? Yes, that’s also true. Is it harder to get a bestseller with a heroine who’s mixed race? It probably is, but that did not stop The Color Purple or Ragtime.

Is the situation getting better? Yes. Maybe the change is slow, but at least that store I was in had a section for POC groups. Hopefully, I will see a day when the books are mixed in with everything else, but at least they are there.

Why is it getting better? Because of writer’s like you that stick to their story. It sounds to me that your MC’s ethnic background is a huge part of who she is. Your own ancestry proves that it’s feasible. Why change that? Don’t worry about what’s most marketable. Write the best dang book you can, and you will have just as much chance of any of us of getting published. You know what has the best chance of getting published? A well-written book, regardless of the details.

slhuang · May 13, 2013

Oh dear, please don't change her race.

And with regard to marketability, remember that there are people out there starved for POC protagonists. If you have a white girl as your MC, you'll be competing with every other white-girl-heroine YA fantasy. But if you have a POC MC, you have a better chance of building word-of-mouth among people who are specifically looking for POC protagonists.

At least that's my prediction.

Speaking personally, I am WAY more likely to pick up a book with a POC protagonist, because I just never see enough of them!

lolchemist · May 13, 2013

NONONONONONONO tell them all to shut the fuck up! There is a huge wide open space in the market for exactly this book and exactly this character! All you need to do is find an agent who isn't a boring coward!

Here is a carrot for you: imagine Rihanna or Zoe Saldana (or whoever you favorite black celebrity is) playing this girl in the movie version of your book!

Filigree · May 13, 2013

Yep, don't listen to them. Especially if the detractors are not solidly-published authors and/or high-powered agents or editors.

There's a big market for openly multicultural stuff. There are a lot of fantasy novels that have already had characters who are not 'white', and the publishing world is slowly coming around to not showing them as 'white'.

I get more grief from readers for having a very detailed sci-fi subplot to my M/M erotic romance, than I do for making a main character of obvious African descent.

Bottom line, write what makes you happiest to read, and develop some stronger filters for what some people will say about your writing. Even if they mean well, they aren't you, and they are not writing your story.

Kim Fierce · May 13, 2013

Don't listen to them!

ellio · May 13, 2013

I'm pretty sure a bucketload of freed slaves from America emigrated to Paris in the 1800s. This fallacy that black people didn't exist in Europe until a hundred years ago needs to be put to an end really. North and East Africans had been trading with Europeans well before there were even white people in America.

Dead Gorgeous by Malorie Blackman is a fantasy book with black characters. All the covers I've just seen on google feature black girls on the front. It's about a girl whose family own a hotel and she's the only one who can see the really attractive ghost wandering around.
I can't recommend you read it because it's so long since I've read it myself (a good decade I would say) but I remember it also dealing with eating disorders and body image quite well, something not a lot of authors get right.

Anyway, don't change her race.

ellio · May 13, 2013

lolchemist said:
NONONONONONONO tell them all to shut the fuck up! There is a huge wide open space in the market for exactly this book and exactly this character! All you need to do is find an agent who isn't a boring coward!

Here is a carrot for you: imagine Rihanna or Zoe Saldana (or whoever you favorite black celebrity is) playing this girl in the movie version of your book!

OH GOSH NO RIHANNA'S ACTING IS SO CATASTROPHIC
Admittedly I've never actually seen her in anything apart from a cameo she has in Bring it on 3 where she plays herself but that alone was shocking.

J.S.F. · May 13, 2013

ellio said:
OH GOSH NO RIHANNA'S ACTING IS SO CATASTROPHIC
Admittedly I've never actually seen her in anything apart from a cameo she has in Bring it on 3 where she plays herself but that alone was shocking.

---

Hey, she was in Battleship!

Oh, wait...

OP, in my opinion, in the past, yes, white chicks or dudes on covers of books did sell better. Was it racist? Maybe at times, yes, but not always. It sold and some publishers probably figured that since these covers/novels were selling well, why mess with success? This didn't make it right then nor does it make it right now, but things are changing.

As for your novel, don't change your MC's race. At all. I don't care if she's black or mixed or purple with polka dots. Write her the way YOU want to write her. You're proud of what you are, yes? So don't feel ashamed to BE proud of what you are. If your story is good then a publisher WILL pick it up and I hope you make a million bucks with it.

So says the average white dude who's married to a Japanese woman and writes lesbian fiction. (Ya, rlly!).

slhuang · May 13, 2013

J.S.F. said:
I don't care if she's black or mixed or purple with polka dots.

Just a heads up, JSF -- the rhetorical use of "green people," "purple people" etc. in conversations like this is often considered dehumanizing by POC (because it's placing real-life people in a category with the fictional ridiculous). I understand what you mean, of course, and I know you didn't mean it that way at all!, but I just thought I'd give you the FYI.

(I made that mistake myself before I got more heavily involved in discourse about institutional racism, and I'm a POC! But after being involved in the conversation for a while now I've started to see why people consider it a problematic rhetorical device.)

Anyway. Just so you know.

Carry on, everyone.

RemaCaracappa · May 13, 2013

Gods, that's awful. Your character is who she is- if she were a white girl, pretty or otherwise, you'd be writing a white girl, but she's not, even if it's "only" by a quarter.

I'm a big believer in writing what you're interested in reading, especially if there's not much of it out there already, it's part of why I'm writing a few of the things that I am. If you've got a story, get it out there. You'll find readers (what you've said about it here is enough to grab my interest!). There's a need out there, even if some people are too myopic to see it.

J.S.F. · May 13, 2013

slhuang said:
Just a heads up, JSF -- the rhetorical use of "green people," "purple people" etc. in conversations like this is often considered dehumanizing by POC (because it's placing real-life people in a category with the fictional ridiculous). I understand what you mean, of course, and I know you didn't mean it that way at all!, but I just thought I'd give you the FYI. (I made that mistake myself before I got more heavily involved in discourse about institutional racism, and I'm a POC! But after being involved in the conversation for a while now I've started to see why people consider it a problematic rhetorical device.)

Anyway. Just so you know. Carry on, everyone.

------

Okay, went a little overboard on the color scheme, and no, of course I didn't mean it in a dehumanizing way. I sure hope no one took it that way! However, I do see your point so I will be more careful.

At any rate, my original point still stands. OP, write your character the way YOU want to. I read whatever I can get my hands on, and I don't care what color or race or religion the characters are, nor do I care what color or race or religion the writer is. All that matters to me is if it's a well-written novel or not.

GeekTells · May 14, 2013

Write the book you want to write. Be the author you want to be. Accept that in this case it could lead to extra difficulties and then overcome those difficulties.

Oh, and get some new friends.

Kim Fierce · May 14, 2013

slhuang said:
Just a heads up, JSF -- the rhetorical use of "green people," "purple people" etc. in conversations like this is often considered dehumanizing by POC (because it's placing real-life people in a category with the fictional ridiculous). I understand what you mean, of course, and I know you didn't mean it that way at all!, but I just thought I'd give you the FYI. (I made that mistake myself before I got more heavily involved in discourse about institutional racism, and I'm a POC! But after being involved in the conversation for a while now I've started to see why people consider it a problematic rhetorical device.)

Anyway. Just so you know. Carry on, everyone.

I have felt that way, too, but then again sometimes in writing there could be purple people, so I'm sure no harm intended but it is a good FYI for the future! I heard someone say once "I don't care if you are white, black, blue, or green." And I was like, "Okay, if I am ever blue or green call a doctor!" haha

Bookewyrme · May 14, 2013

Just wanted to add on not to get discouraged by the naysayers. Yes, pretty white girls sell, but so do other books and we NEED the other books to prove that something other than pretty white girls CAN sell until people stop repeating that stupidity.
As for the "but there were no POC in Europe in [insert time period before 1920]" bs, that has been debunked so many times that I bet if you just googled "black people in europe 1860" you'd get a ton of hits with everything from photographic evidence to textual references to census data. And if you want a recent YA literary reference, Gail Carriger's most recent release is a YA Steampunk set in England about 1860sish called Etiquette & Espionage. It features a black boy as one of the MCs good friends (not the MC himself, but definitely an important character in his own right), and I suspect in later books he will become the love-interest (though it's possible I've misinterpreted that, there were definitely some hints that way) for the white, upper-class girl MC. And it has been selling quite well, all the same.

Also. Your book sounds awesome and I hope you sell it so I can read it!

(Apologies for the overly-long sentences.

)

Amadan · May 14, 2013

Who is saying these things? Are these beta-reader comments?

It is possible that you might get pressure from some editors or agents to "whitewash" the character, yes - but anyone who makes absolute statements like "No one will buy this because the main character is black" is not giving you sensible (or factual) advice.

BenPanced · May 14, 2013

GeekTells said:
Write the book you want to ~~write~~ read.

Fixed it. Best damned advice I've gotten from anybody, and I encourage you to think about it.

OJCade · May 15, 2013

GeekTells said:
Oh, and get some new friends.

That's what I was going to say. Or: get some new readers, ones who are a little less parochial in their tastes.

You could take it as a sort of compliment in that they've obviously found no gaping plot holes or major inconsistencies to bitch about, and thus have to resort to this in order to be "helpful" in their criticisms. You could, if you were feeling generous.

Otherwise just ignore them and mark them down mentally as being on the "not asking for your opinion in future" list. It's your story, not theirs.

"Let's face it: pretty white girls sell."

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