Do you have a right to privacy (and to call Obama a "nigger?")

Williebee

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
20,569
Reaction score
4,814
Location
youtu.be/QRruBVFXjnY
Website
www.ifoundaknife.com
I have quoted you. If you had said something shameful and people voiced that they were against it because of my quote-that doesn't mean I have bullied you because I have done nothing but repeat your exact words (said in public) in another public place.

Kind of my point, thanks.

Although, in the case of the site discussed in the OP, that is not what the creator of the Tumblr site did. They did more than simply quote these folks.
 

missesdash

You can't sit with us!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
6,858
Reaction score
1,092
Location
Paris, France
And on a more general note, racists are also apparently upset about the American music awards last night -- Oppa Gangnam Style!

Poor racists - collated like this.

Yeah this is obviously going to become a thing. And it's so easy on twitter. If I wanted to write a blog piece on "people who threaten to kill Donald trump" it would take about 10 minutes to gather enough quotes.

I tweeted something like "libertarians are the worst" once and came back an hour to find a dozen libertarians, including some guy who was running for office in GA, demanding that I explain myself.

Them's the breaks.
 

Chrissy

Bright and Early for the Daily Race
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
7,249
Reaction score
2,005
Location
Mad World
Once again. Read the twitter feeds. You will find bullying. Bullying that even adheres to your definition of bullying.

Or are the tweets I posted not actually bullying by some odd definition of modern bullying? You know, hanging fags. Jeesh.
I had read that one, and I think it's totally disgusting, of course. But the dude talking back to him, while he had some good responses, also called him inbred, which is a prejudiced thing to say towards, yanno, rednecks, or whatever. (That's a pretty old joke, actually.) He was giving as good as he got (or better than, IMO, since he was much more intelligently expressing himself for the most part. ETA: And he could spell. Why is it that racists can never spell?).

If you're saying that the threat of hanging is taking it to the bullying level, I dunno. It seems like, unless they know each other, it's just a bunch of nasty, but empty, words.

It seemed to me, from the website set up, that this guy had voluntarily "called out" the racist on his twitter feed. It appears he started the tweet. He wasn't being harrassed. They had a conversation. That's not bullying, it's just being a bigoted prick.

I didn't read many of them, they make me ill. But if you want to point out a specific one other than that one that you think is bullying, I'll read it.
 
Last edited:

Williebee

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
20,569
Reaction score
4,814
Location
youtu.be/QRruBVFXjnY
Website
www.ifoundaknife.com
It would seem logical, in the way of the internetz, to see that "publicshaming" is becoming its own meme. The logical follow up, I'm thinking, is that the "public shamers" will become the targets of "public shaming" as well.

Hopefully not too much of the point will be lost in the finger pointing.
 

Chrissy

Bright and Early for the Daily Race
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
7,249
Reaction score
2,005
Location
Mad World
*points*

It was the rabbit!
 

icerose

Lost in School Work
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
11,549
Reaction score
1,646
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Utah
To me "push-back" would probably be a better term than bullying for what's happening to these (barely underage) racists.
 

Chrissy

Bright and Early for the Daily Race
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
7,249
Reaction score
2,005
Location
Mad World
Oh, sure! I suppose you're going to call security and ban me from the dressing rooms again, right?! Pfft!
For the hundredth time, there is no men's dressing room here!!!

*throws assorted VS lingerie at the rabbit*
 

Chrissy

Bright and Early for the Daily Race
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
7,249
Reaction score
2,005
Location
Mad World
I just want to say one more thing, for whoever might be reading.

The kids who have expressed these vile sentiments are wrong. Utterly and completely wrong.

Don't give power to their words. They are ignorant.

If you encounter people who say these things to your face, they are wrong and ignorant too.

You are a gift from God, no matter what your skin color, or sexual orientation, or the number on the scale, or the face you see in the mirror. You are a human being. A BEAUTIFUL and PERFECT human being. You are a gift to the world from God. You have a purpose. You are worthy. You are special. There is no one exactly like you, not in the whole world.

No one will ever convince me otherwise.

Pity those people; they live their lives in lies and hate and ignorance. Pity them, they live in a dark corner of a bright and beautiful world. They are blinded by their ignorance. They have no power over you. And that is no life you would ever want to live.

They suck; you rock. Be you. Be your beautiful self. Don't spend another minute caring about what ignorant people think. You are awesome.
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
You are a gift from God, no matter what your skin color, or sexual orientation, or the number on the scale, or the face you see in the mirror. You are a human being. A BEAUTIFUL and PERFECT human being. You are a gift to the world from God.

What if you don't believe in God?
 

Chrissy

Bright and Early for the Daily Race
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
7,249
Reaction score
2,005
Location
Mad World
Well then, the universe. Purpose. Meaning. Why you are here. What you are worth. It doesn't have to be about God, it's just the way I express things that mean something to me.

If we thought there was no meaning, we wouldn't care, would we?
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
In Kuwi's case, he's a gift to us. We don't ask where from.

We just watch to see what he can do before his batteries run out. :)

My batteries ran out sometime last month. I'm totally burnt out. I'm running on reserves.

This semester won't be pretty for me.
 

benbradley

It's a doggy dog world
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
20,322
Reaction score
3,513
Location
Transcending Canines
One of the problems with twitter and Facebook and so on is that a lot of people feel like they are posting in private when they are really doing it in public. There is the illusion of talking to friends when you are really shouting from the rooftops.

It may be an effect of the fundamental disconnect that comes from using the net overall. People sitting at computers don't see or feel the size of the crowd they're talking to, as a result it feels private when it's far from it.
Perhaps (!) they have never Googled themselves. And even if they have "proper privacy settings set" there's nothing stopping a "friend" from copypasting their words and pics to anywhere else on the Internet.
I don't think that's the point. The point is that just because information is already "public" doesn't mean it's okay (morally) to reproduce it and distribute it.
This is what bothers me most about it. Since it (posting names, addresses, phone numbers, whatever) involves minors, I wonder whether it's legal.
Okay. If the website had not reproduced it, what are the chances that you or I or X thousand (million) other people would have ever read what they posted, learned their names or their cities or the names of their schools?
The answer is "it depends." Any post about anything controversial (and using racist language in public has been considered controversial for a while) has a good chance of going as viral as putting a few rounds into your daughter's laptop.
It was already public. I'm fairly certain it wasn't illegal to re-post it. Still doesn't make it "the right thing to do." So I agree with shadowwalker.
I'm hesitant about something not being illegal to repost just because it's "public." I think this is part of the point in this thread - minors often post info about themselves that they shouldn't, and others' reposting that info could put them in danger. If one of these kids was injured by someone who reposted their info, a parent might legitimately hold liable the person who put together this compilation of tweets and other info.

For (what should be here) an obvious copyright example, Sam Harris made his book "Lying" available for free as a PDF for a week, and I got a copy (I somewhat recall that it was just a link on his site - I didn't even have to enter an, er, my email address to get it), but no doubt it would violate copyright law if I reposted it.

Also depends on whether such forums are readable by registered members only, or by anyone who surfs in. Either way, it's STILL possible for a controversial statement to be copied elsewhere, and others to register on the forum and verify that it's there before anyone on the forum knows and the post gets "sent to the cornfield."
I wonder if it mightn't have been better just to send the posts to the Head and or the school board with a note that suggests there'll be a follow up to see that it was dealt with? That would seem to be a better way to model civil behaviour.
Why get the school involved? If there are any "authorities" who should know about this, I'd think it would be the parents.
Dunno about the whole issue of what minors ought to be able to say - I mean, I think in general the less regulation of speech the better - but it concerns me that kids are welcomed in to social networks as young as 13 (officially; Facebook is the most popular site for kids 7-12, supposedly before they can sign up.)

If you're not paying for a service like Facebook or Twitter, then you are the product.
Even if you ARE paying for something, your info is still a product to the organizations you deal with, and they often resell it to others as well as use it for their own purposes.
And on a more general note, racists are also apparently upset about the American music awards last night -- Oppa Gangnam Style!

Poor racists - collated like this.
Yes, this Gangnam Style video is the first time an Asian has ever entered the American popular entertainment consciousness. #setphaserstofabulous
 

Chrissy

Bright and Early for the Daily Race
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
7,249
Reaction score
2,005
Location
Mad World
My batteries ran out sometime last month. I'm totally burnt out. I'm running on reserves.

This semester won't be pretty for me.
Someone get kuwi some new batteries, pronto!

See, I don't know much about any single person on the AW forum, but I know, for example, you, kuwi, are in grad school, and you contribute statistical facts to the forum, along with other good ideas and thoughts, and I enjoy your posts, and if you weren't here... well, I wouldn't know you weren't, obviously, but I'm so glad you are.

Little stuff like that has meaning. Little stuff like that, it means everything, in the long run.

There's something to be said for changing the world, but there's also something to be said for enjoying the moments and the people in them. And loving yourself and accepting yourself.... regardless of what stupid people say...

Geez Chrissy, sappy much? :D
 

mccardey

Self-Ban
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
19,308
Reaction score
16,028
Location
Australia.
If someone is being bullied, that's a whole nother story, and they should be reported to their parents/school admin. .

Well, perhaps we're having a definitional argument. In Australia, among people my age, bullying is used to describe abusive or brow-beating behaviour - one aspect of which can be the kind of playground bullying you mentioned, another of which would be the sending out of abusive texts about people based on their skin colour or race or gender among other things. But it's possibly a more specific thing where you are, so I won't harp on.

And to answer BenBradley
Why get the school involved? If there are any "authorities" who should know about this, I'd think it would be the parents.
because the parents in question don't seem to be managing it, and school is the usual interface between kids and society. Yes, I know - a lot of these "kids" are too old for school, but I don't know what the next step is for them. I expect it's too late to do much in the way of teaching at that stage. Perhaps they'll reflect and change as they get older, perhaps they won't. But if society has a problem with a behaviour and the parents aren't able to help, perhaps school is a kinder alternative than internet-shaming or the legal system? Though quite honestly, thebloodfiend is making me think twice about how much we need to bother with kindness - at least for those over the age of about sixteen. They know what they're doing.
 

Williebee

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
20,569
Reaction score
4,814
Location
youtu.be/QRruBVFXjnY
Website
www.ifoundaknife.com
Well, perhaps we're having a definitional argument. In Australia, among people my age, bullying is used to describe abusive or brow-beating behaviour - one aspect of which can be the kind of playground bullying you mentioned, another of which would be the sending out of abusive texts about people based on their skin colour or race or gender among other things. But it's possibly a more specific thing where you are, so I won't harp on.

It's pretty much the same farther north. But bullying is usually defined as an act against a specific person, rather than a larger group. In the case of the OP, it is reflecting discrimination, racism and.. just plain ignorance.(imho)
 

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
15,479
Reaction score
2,295
Location
probably watching DARK KNIGHT
There may be nothing legally wrong in re-posting that information - but I think looking at the purpose for doing so is needed. And if the purpose is to shame or intimidate, to force someone to stop stating their opinions because they are not popular or considered hateful by some, then the people re-posting are no better, no more 'righteous', than the people who made those remarks in the first place.

And where are you getting the idea that intimidation is the purpose? When I read that tumblr, it seemed to me that the purpose was to say, "Hey, idiots! You just posted something bigoted and disgusting! Do you realize that people can SEE you? We see what you look like, where you live, and where you go to school. You are not anonymous. You are, however, an idiot. Congratulations."

I didn't see anything that was encouraging anyone to go to these kids houses and beat them up. The only thing they're really doing is embarassing them. And they should be embarassed for saying things like this.
 

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
15,479
Reaction score
2,295
Location
probably watching DARK KNIGHT
Okay. If the website had not reproduced it, what are the chances that you or I or X thousand (million) other people would have ever read what they posted, learned their names or their cities or the names of their schools?

They are talking about Obama, Chrissy. Do you really think that hashtags about Obama on twitter don't get much play? Do you think that people don't do web searches for Obama all the time? He's the President of the United States. If you say something about him on Twitter, people will see it.

In short, chances are very good.
 

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
15,479
Reaction score
2,295
Location
probably watching DARK KNIGHT
Well, to go all "mama" on you, this is not a very mature way to look at it, IMO. Violence is not a appropriate response to a bunch of hateful words.

I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that using that kind of language (the language being used on twitter) to someone's face would be considered "fighting words."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

In my experience, people who do not mean to threaten anyone with physical violence do not talk that way, no matter how racist they might be.
 

shadowwalker

empty-nester!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
5,601
Reaction score
598
Location
SE Minnesota
I didn't see anything that was encouraging anyone to go to these kids houses and beat them up. The only thing they're really doing is embarassing them. And they should be embarassed for saying things like this.

There are many forms of intimidation. If they wanted to engage these idiots, why not do it where the remarks were made?

My whole view is that, regardless of how disgusting one finds another's views, they have a right to hold those views and voice them. And despite how much we would like to beat the shit out of them for it, that doesn't make it right to do so. Not only that, but as I stated earlier, you can't force anyone to change their views. You can, however, force them into silence and resentment, which, in the end, only makes the problem worse.
 

missesdash

You can't sit with us!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
6,858
Reaction score
1,092
Location
Paris, France
There are many forms of intimidation. If they wanted to engage these idiots, why not do it where the remarks were made?

My whole view is that, regardless of how disgusting one finds another's views, they have a right to hold those views and voice them. And despite how much we would like to beat the shit out of them for it, that doesn't make it right to do so. Not only that, but as I stated earlier, you can't force anyone to change their views. You can, however, force them into silence and resentment, which, in the end, only makes the problem worse.

Would you feel the same if someone was shouting racist insults from a street corner, so someone else gathered their friends, went back, and "engaged" them? And I don't mean physically. But brought attention to what was going on and either engaged in discussion or shouted insults back?

Because that's what happens. People see it on twitter or on another tumblr and they sign on to their own accounts and respond. No one changes their mind because other silently agree. But plenty reconsider their behavior when they receive reactions from outside of their own safe social circle. And there's nothing wrong with pointing those who want to engage racist towards the racists.

The site doesn't aim to force them into silence. In fact she/he says that if any of them want to respond, it will be posted on the blog. I don't know how many have. But like I said earlier, the ones who claimed they'd been "hacked" obviously learned their lesson about what to say and not say in front of an audience of the entire internet.