Share Your Successes!

triceretops

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
14,060
Reaction score
2,755
Location
In a van down by the river
Website
guerrillawarfareforwriters.blogspot.com
In other words, I've learned some helpful things from the enormity of Joe Konrath's blogs. Particularly, promo and marketing. He's savvy, and some of this ideas are brilliant. But I'm not going to get caught up in his rhetoric and semi-damnation of what he calls "legacy" publishing. I also believe he's the one that started the "dinosaur" term, or who has repeated it. I've noticed that a lot of the self-publishing rah-rah club has indeed quoted him or referenced his theories and declarations. I also think that Joe was turned down by the big six on his last book, and have often wondered if that was the thorn that pricked his feelings toward trade publishing. His blog also serves as a huge banner to advertize his and his peers work, near to excess, and the man's clearly had a huge readership/fanbase before he started his major self-publishing campaign.

I'm just saying, that those who've been influenced by Joe's blog, need to examine both sides of the coin. There is no true difference between how writers achieve their goals. Both trade and self-publishing formats/methods are equally viable publishing options. And before anyone speaks up by condemning one or the other, they should at least be experienced and have a track record in both methods. And even then, "fair and balanced" is the appropriate way to tackle the subject matter.

tri--who has a very hard time trying to maintain a balance in his own "Guerrilla" blog.
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
I've learned some helpful things from the enormity of Joe Konrath's blogs [...] I also think that Joe was turned down by the big six on his last book, and have often wondered if that was the thorn that pricked his feelings toward trade publishing.

I think you might be right about Mr Konrath.

I also think you're right about how both trade and self publishing are great choices for writers so long as those writers understand the advantages and limitations of them both. There's no need for the "us vs. them" mentality which I've seen plastered across the internet: what writers need is reliable information, cleanly told, and help and encouragement along the way.

I hope that's what AW supplies.
 

Sheryl Nantus

Holding out for a Superhero...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
7,196
Reaction score
1,634
Age
59
Location
Brownsville, Pennsylvania. Or New Babbage, Second
Website
www.sherylnantus.com
I'm a big believer in the "Don't Pee Where You Play" way of living.

If you got your start in trade publishing it's not a good idea to pee all over it because you've either been rejected or have a bone to pick with a publisher. If it's a valid bone, such as a contract breach or something legal, it's perfectly fine to bring it to the public and Writer Beware and let others know about your experience so they can avoid it.

But whining about how you got screwed over by "The Big Six" when by all accounts the simple harsh truth is that you got rejected... well, that's just sour grapes. Be upset, be grumpy - but don't pee all over them and then be shocked when no one wants to play with you anymore.

I'm always entertained when Konrath shows up in the RT conventions photos with a beer in his hand and on all the self-pub panels, despite his claims to have "retired" from doing promotion.

Don't Pee Where You Play. It's a Good Thing.

:)
 

Nick Russell

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
430
Reaction score
34
Jason, I've been on the road or would have commented sooner. The biggest thing most of us ever regret in life are the opportunities not taken.

I wrote Big Lake back about 1997 or 1998, and even though I have a long history in writing and self-publishing (I've owned several small town newspapers, self-published nonfiction books and niche guides) and have made my living with the written for much of my adult life, I had absolutely no confidence in my ability to write a novel. Finally, in late May, 2011, I gave in to nagging by my wife and a couple of friends who had read the manuscript, and published in on Amazon as an e-book. I was terrified of what the reaction would be.

To date it has sold nearly 110,000 copies in both e-book and printed format. I published the sequel, Big Lake Lynching the end of January, and it has sold about 12,000 copies so far. I am nearing the end of book three in the series now and hope to have it ready to publish soon.

Go for it, my friend. You’ll never know if you never try. I wish you much success.
 

cardartfth

Registered
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Congratulations and Thank you!

I'm not quite doing your numbers yet, but it looks like I'll go over 25,000 books sold this month. :) Even better, the VP of a major TV production company

Hugh! Another inspirational story! You and Nick have really made my day. I've not been on here much since Gena left, but returned today as I needed the community. I was feeling a bit hopeless (with my 2 recently Epublished books not selling much) but you and Nick have given me hope. If you fellas decide to offer a class in 'How to Promote Your Ebook,' I'm signing up! Right now, I'm feeling like the Little Engine and 'I think I can, I think I can...'
Thank you again and CONGRATULATIONS!
Sue Baumgardner
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008EFG88G/?tag=absowrit-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0083D4MZU/?tag=absowrit-20
 

Wesley Kang

the Light of Dawn
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
192
Location
Onward and upwards
Thank you again Nick for the wonderful words of encouragement: "You'll never know if you never try..."

My ebook, Divination, is nearing completion after my third "final" revision. I'm doing my last revision reading it as an ebook, reading along in my Kindle and scribbling revisions in a notebook to be changed late. It's given me a different perspective on the book and makes me feel more settled on the decisions I've made and are continuing to make. Having only two or three minor revisions per chapter is a fantastic feeling.

Oh and an aside, my brother is in town to visit, and he is not a reader AT ALL. He asked me out of the blue, have you ever heard of a book called WOOL? I couldn't help but smile a big goofy smile.
 

maggie2

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
139
Reaction score
16
Wow, Bev, that's totally awesome. You should be very proud of your success. Way to go!

Marg
 

maggie2

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
139
Reaction score
16
I've read all the inputs and threads, and I should be greatly encouraged by all of your successes! Especially those of you whose avatars are your books, right there before our very eyes!

Yet, here I sit with three completed novels ready to go, and eBookIt waiting for me to give them my first one and I'm scared.

It's pathetic! I can't bring myself to pull the trigger. Scared, intimidated, overly excited -- all these emotions probably grown from the hundreds of rejection letters I received over the years. I know they have no bearing now in this great new eBook world, but I seem emotionally scarred from the battles.

Jason,

I understand what you mean. We all are scared. However, how would you find it if you were publishing a paperback book and the deal was that you had to order 10,000 copies of the book at a cost of $30,000.00. And then you had to sell those books.

When I wrote my first books I used a publishing house that did the printing and helped with marketing but I had to foot the bill up-front. And to make it viable, I needed to buy 10,000 copies.

Now that's rather nerve wracking! However, it worked out very well and I went on to have several more printings so I was happy with the results. However, that initial leap of faith was scary as all get out!

So I sure can relate to how you feel. also know how scary it is to put your work out there and face possible rejection. However, you can do it and we will be here for support.

Marg
 

triceretops

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
14,060
Reaction score
2,755
Location
In a van down by the river
Website
guerrillawarfareforwriters.blogspot.com
Jason,

I understand what you mean. We all are scared. However, how would you find it if you were publishing a paperback book and the deal was that you had to order 10,000 copies of the book at a cost of $30,000.00. And then you had to sell those books.

When I wrote my first books I used a publishing house that did the printing and helped with marketing but I had to foot the bill up-front. And to make it viable, I needed to buy 10,000 copies.

Now that's rather nerve wracking! However, it worked out very well and I went on to have several more printings so I was happy with the results. However, that initial leap of faith was scary as all get out!

So I sure can relate to how you feel. also know how scary it is to put your work out there and face possible rejection. However, you can do it and we will be here for support.

Marg

OMG! Now that's determination and bravery under fire, maggie2. I can't even imagine going through something like that. I can look back upon my worst publishing nightmare and it doesn't even come close to that kind of apprehension.
Bless you for your longevity and unceasing optimism.

That which does not kill us better watch out.

tri
 

robertbevan

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
706
Reaction score
70
Location
incheon, south korea.
hell, i'm ready to get in on this action. i've sold ten books in under two months. i don't think that's too bad right out of the gate. i'm calling it a success.
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
I understand what you mean. We all are scared. However, how would you find it if you were publishing a paperback book and the deal was that you had to order 10,000 copies of the book at a cost of $30,000.00. And then you had to sell those books.

When I wrote my first books I used a publishing house that did the printing and helped with marketing but I had to foot the bill up-front. And to make it viable, I needed to buy 10,000 copies.

Now that's rather nerve wracking! However, it worked out very well and I went on to have several more printings so I was happy with the results. However, that initial leap of faith was scary as all get out!

Marg, I don't mean to put you down here: but that sounds suspiciously like a vanity press to me.

Many companies which represent themselves as self publishing service providers (or similar, less long-winded names) are often vanity publishers. If they require you to buy copies of your books, if they ask you to cover the costs of marketing your book, if they ask you to "invest in the success of your book"; these are all indicators that you're working with a vanity press, and not a company which offers assisted self publishing (to be honest I'm not sure that there is such a thing as assisted self publishing, but so long as you know the limitations of those services that's fine, and I don't want to go off on that particular tangent right now).

I'm not taking a poke at Marg here, or at anyone else: but self publishing is hard enough as it is, without being ripped off by scammy people who aren't truthful with you. Please be careful, all of you.

(And yes, I know you all know this already, but I worry. I worry.)
 

EngineerTiger

Writing HF Again, Thank God
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
408
Reaction score
49
Location
Indianapolis
Website
grayarmybrat.com
Thanks, Maggie2. Yes, it was a very nice surprise.

Nick, thanks for taking the time to read and review Book IV. Glad you enjoyed it. I'm about 1/2 way through Book VI (had a slow down in writing due to some pesky life interruptions but still hope to get it out by end of August).

As for the rest of you, keep us up to date. I'm in a bit of rush right now and can't speak congratulations and encouragement to every one on the thread but I'm pulling for each of you and hope things go very well for you.
 

triceretops

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
14,060
Reaction score
2,755
Location
In a van down by the river
Website
guerrillawarfareforwriters.blogspot.com
I'm not taking a poke at Marg here, or at anyone else: but self publishing is hard enough as it is, without being ripped off by scammy people who aren't truthful with you. Please be careful, all of you.

It's okay, OH. It bears repeating. You called it what it was.


Well, the werewolf book is now up on FictionWise. I've had excellent results from them before. And they discounted the book--now whatch Kobo and Amazon all POed and drop prices.

tri
 

maggie2

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
139
Reaction score
16
Marg, I don't mean to put you down here: but that sounds suspiciously like a vanity press to me.

Many companies which represent themselves as self publishing service providers (or similar, less long-winded names) are often vanity publishers. If they require you to buy copies of your books, if they ask you to cover the costs of marketing your book, if they ask you to "invest in the success of your book"; these are all indicators that you're working with a vanity press, and not a company which offers assisted self publishing (to be honest I'm not sure that there is such a thing as assisted self publishing, but so long as you know the limitations of those services that's fine, and I don't want to go off on that particular tangent right now).

I'm not taking a poke at Marg here, or at anyone else: but self publishing is hard enough as it is, without being ripped off by scammy people who aren't truthful with you. Please be careful, all of you.

(And yes, I know you all know this already, but I worry. I worry.)

Hi, Old Hack,

Where I live here in Canada there is a company called Centax Publishing. They publish mostlly cookbooks and I guess you could call them a vanity press. Back in the mid 1970s they published a series of cookbooks for a group of women and those books were hugely successful. To date they have sold over 1 million copies. Then they published another series of books for a woman by the name of Jean Pare and those were even more successful. Google her name and take a look at the cookbook empire she has built.

Additionally, they published many other cookbooks and every one of those cookbooks sold at least 10,000 copies.

The way they work is that they provide all the editing, layout, design, etc. etc. services as well as help with the food photography etc. etc. And the author pays for those services up front. They also help with marketing the books and they are very good at it.

So yes, I guess it would be considered vanity publishing. However, if I went to a printer and had books printed and got no help with them that, too, would be vanity publishing.

I spent many hours reseraching publishers and printers and it was only after all that research that I made the informed decision to go with this company. And they certainly did a great job for me. I had several printings of the book after the first one and I also did a second cookbook with them that also sold very well.

I probably would still be working with them today but I ended up getting very ill and had to let the books go out of print because I just couldn't work on them any more at the time.

Now it's 20 years later and life is very different and I can publish on Kindle and not have to put any money out front. The knowledge I gained from working with this company has been so valuable to me in my Kindle ventures that I can't possibly put a price on it. It has been the difference in me creating books I can be proud of and that are of a professional quality and writing books that do not have that kind of polish.

So yes, I probably used a 'vanity' publisher. However, I did it because that is what I chose to do. I did not want to go through a publisher at that time. I didn't want to wait around for them to make up their minds and I knew this company knew how to market cookbooks successfully. I also knew that they would not take on a cookbook if they felt it would not succeed.

Both those two cookbooks were also picked up by a French publishing house, by the way, and were distributed in French in Quebec, France, Belgium and the parts of Africa that are French-speaking.

And a couple of years later I wrote a Bed and Breakfast Book for Albertra which was published by a publishing house, not self-published. I would still be doing that book but in today's world, books of that nature don't sell much because people go to the Internet for that kind of information.

Anyway, my whole point is that sometimes there are good and valid reasons to do what I did. I would never encourage anyone to use the types of vanity publishers who offer similar services unless they have a long track record of success with other books. But if I knew anyone who wanted a great cookbook published I would not hesitate to recommend this company to them at any time, anywhere. They are still creating successful cookbooks every year.

Marg
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
Marg, I'm glad you took my comment in the spirit it was intended: nuance can be so difficult online, can't it?

I see no harm or problem in what you did: you obviously understood the limitations and realities of working with that publisher, and were pleased with the result. That's great. What I object to is when writers work with vanity publishers without realising what they are, and end up disappointed, out of pocket, and with a book they can't sell.

I take exception to one thing you wrote:

So yes, I guess it would be considered vanity publishing. However, if I went to a printer and had books printed and got no help with them that, too, would be vanity publishing.

No, that wouldn't be vanity publishing, it would be self publishing.

All these companies which now offer self publishing services? Strictly speaking, they're vanity publishers. They earn their money from the writers they publish, rather than from selling books to readers; and they retain control over various processes, such as the ISBN, printing, and distribution. The writers who publish through them don't control their own publication process: that makes the companies vanity publishers. As I said, so long as the writers understand what they're getting into that's fine; if the writers don't, then I have problems with it.
 

triceretops

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
14,060
Reaction score
2,755
Location
In a van down by the river
Website
guerrillawarfareforwriters.blogspot.com
Well The Wolfen Strain went up on Fictionwise this morning, and I'm happy about that. I've always had good luck with rankings and reviews from that little site--so I'll take it as a success today. They took about 70 cents off the retail e-book price, so that helps. Now watch Amazon and Kobo get POed and drop prices. I hope they do.

Getting used to the nuances writing for TextBroker. Submitted my first articles--one accepted and two under review. This is the first income I've strived for since DMS imploded and dumped thousands of us. The pickins' are real thin out their for client and order work. So I cherish this chance to start over again, even at these poverty wages. But poverty wages pays my internet and a lot of other things.

tri
 

Nick Russell

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
430
Reaction score
34
This evening I finished the latest book in my Big Lake series. That always feels good. My wife will start proofing it tomorrow, and once she's done I'll send it off to two more of my volunteer proofreaders. Meanwhile, I need to figure out what to do about a cover.
 

maggie2

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
139
Reaction score
16
This evening I finished the latest book in my Big Lake series. That always feels good. My wife will start proofing it tomorrow, and once she's done I'll send it off to two more of my volunteer proofreaders. Meanwhile, I need to figure out what to do about a cover.

Way to go, Nick! Do you plan to write another one in the series?

You have done great things with your books in that series. It's great to see such success!

Marg
 

Nick Russell

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
430
Reaction score
34
Thanks Marge. I plan at least a couple more in the Big Lake series, and I've got another series I want to try out.
 

Hildegarde

A newb in the fog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
329
Reaction score
39
Location
Earth, mostly
Website
www.nightmarefactory.com
So I cherish this chance to start over again, even at these poverty wages. But poverty wages pays my internet and a lot of other things.

tri

I feel you. Some days it just feels wrong to be so grateful I still have income coming in, even at a reduced level. But. . . .I am grateful.

Good luck with Wolfen Strain!
 

triceretops

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
14,060
Reaction score
2,755
Location
In a van down by the river
Website
guerrillawarfareforwriters.blogspot.com
I'm still learning about ranks and e-tailers, checking them often to see what's up. Don't know how significant it is but:

The Wolfen Stain is ranked #1 in Horror at Fictionwise. It's ranked #2 for publisher's bestselller.

It's ranked #1 in Horror for 30-day bestseller at BookStrands, and the #2 position for thriller for 30-day bestseller at BookStrands.

It's been holding these positions for a while, so I'm hoping these aren't spikes, but steady sales purges. But who knows, huh?

The Amazon numbers are so-so, not quite climbing there as is with the others.

How is everybody else doing?

tri