Hesitant speech and punctuation

evangaline

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Does hesitant speech in dialogue take a comma or an ellipsis? For example:

1. "That's one of your strong points, one of the reasons why, why I would never stand in your way."
2. "That's one of your strong points, one of the reasons why...why I would never stand in your way."

I've seen both. Is one preferable to the other? Thanks, guys!
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Maryn

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My understanding is editors don't really like ellipses and want us to use very few of them. Kind of like exclamation points. Save them for when they're really needed.

One thing worth mentioning is whether the reader needs to hear this line of dialogue, with the hesitation and repeated word, the way you do in your head. If it's not necessary, consider ditching it.

That said, if you're keeping it, I'd opt for the comma version. When and if you sell it, your editor can tell you I'm wrong, and it totally won't matter, because hey, you sold it!

Maryn, who doesn't argue the small points
 

Jo Zebedee

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For me, the comma gives no sense of a pause which means it struggles to make sense. One way around it may be to use and action.

One of the reasons why..." I ran my hands through my hair, looking for the words. "Why I would never stand in your way."

You could do that one without the ellipses too.
 

Fruitbat

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The second one looks better to me. I think it shows that hesitation whereas the first example kind of tripped me up, wondering if it was a typo.

I agree that it's easy to overdo. Too many ellipses drives me nuts (short drive, I know, but still...)
 

asroc

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I don't really associate commas with hesitating speech and the first version reads strange to me. I'd probably go with the ellipses.
 

evangaline

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*shakes head* I'm very paranoid about using too many in-your-face punctuation marks like em dashes, ellipses, etc. and try to avoid them whenever possible. But the hesitancy and word repetition is necessary in this instance. The comma looked like a typo to me, also.

'One of the reasons why..." I ran my hands through my hair, looking for the words. "Why I would never stand in your way."

You could do that one without the ellipses too.'

Springs2, wouldn't I then have to use an em dash instead of ellipses? Sorry for my obvious confusion. *g* I'm only on my first glass of wine of the evening!
 

Jamesaritchie

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A pause is usually indicated by a dash, but pulp writers commonly
used an ellipsis, which confused the issue.
 

Maryn

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The difference between ellipses and an emdash is that the first is trailing off and the second indicates interruption, including self-interruption.

"One of the reasons why--are you even listening?--why I would never stand in your way."

"One of the reasons why--" Who would ring the doorbell this early in the morning? He ignored it. "Why I would never stand in your way."

isn't the same as

"One of the reasons why..." I sought better words, failed to find them. "Why I would never stand in your way."

Does that make sense?

Don't let yourself get too hung up on the perfection of this single sentence. None of the ways you might do it constitutes a fatal flaw.

Maryn, sure on that
 

Ken

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Or a sentence fragment:

"That's one of your strong points. One of the reasons why I'd never stand in your way."

Believe that gets across the same hesitancy, not quite as overtly.

My two cents !

the why...why is a staged sort of contrivance. used in novels but not so much IRL. a bit too obvious.
 

evangaline

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"Don't let yourself get too hung up on the perfection of this single sentence." *sigh* Maryn, that is definitely one of my many flaws! I AM trying, though!
 

Maryn

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Good thing none of us has any flaws, isn't it?

Maryn, sarcastic
 

evangaline

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*g* Gotcha! But on a serious note, I find the more I write, the more compulsive (okay, 'anal') I become about 'getting it right.' Not only will I reconfigure a sentence every which way possible, I'll also search the internet just to make sure. In some ways, the more I learn, the more uncertain I become about my writing. Sorry for the TMI!
 

Jo Zebedee

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*shakes head* I'm very paranoid about using too many in-your-face punctuation marks like em dashes, ellipses, etc. and try to avoid them whenever possible. But the hesitancy and word repetition is necessary in this instance. The comma looked like a typo to me, also.

'One of the reasons why..." I ran my hands through my hair, looking for the words. "Why I would never stand in your way."

You could do that one without the ellipses too.'

Springs2, wouldn't I then have to use an em dash instead of ellipses? Sorry for my obvious confusion. *g* I'm only on my first glass of wine of the evening!

An em dash either side of the action would work, too, I think. But it would make it more urgent than hesitant, maybe? An ellipsis either side might be overkill, though. An action to show the frustration, maybe even a little bit of tell? Ie I hesitated, not sure of the words, then continued, "why?
 
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evangaline

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"But it would make it more urgent than hesitant" It's definitely not urgent but definitely hesitant.
 

Bufty

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If what is said is clear and in context and the word choices are correct, then the reader will interpret it correctly without a fancy pointer.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Or a sentence fragment:

"That's one of your strong points. One of the reasons why I'd never stand in your way."

Believe that gets across the same hesitancy, not quite as overtly.

My two cents !

the why...why is a staged sort of contrivance. used in novels but not so much IRL. a bit too obvious.

A sentence fragment like that doesn't come across as a pause, to me. As a reader, or an editor, it comes across as a writer who doesn't understand what good sentence construction is, and I'd edit it out. I think any editor would automatically correct a sentence fragment like that one.
 

Jamesaritchie

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*g* Gotcha! But on a serious note, I find the more I write, the more compulsive (okay, 'anal') I become about 'getting it right.' Not only will I reconfigure a sentence every which way possible, I'll also search the internet just to make sure. In some ways, the more I learn, the more uncertain I become about my writing. Sorry for the TMI!

I think you're right. There is no such thing as a sentence you shouldn't try to make as perfect as you can possibly make it. All stories are made up of single sentences, and unless you treat every sentence as equal, the story is going to be less than it should be.

I simply can't see any logical reason not to do your best to make every single sentence as good in every way as it's possible to make it. Rewrite it as many times, and in as many ways, as it takes to get it right. I'd rather rewrite a single sentence thirty times than to let it go through in a less than I can make it manner.
 

Ken

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A sentence fragment like that doesn't come across as a pause, to me. As a reader, or an editor, it comes across as a writer who doesn't understand what good sentence construction is, and I'd edit it out. I think any editor would automatically correct a sentence fragment like that one.

... if an editor took it upon themselves to speak on behalf of all editors and couldn't distinguish between words of a character and those of an author I would check the return address to find out whether I hadn't mistakenly sent the manuscript to some crackpot publication by mistake.
 

Jamesaritchie

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... if an editor took it upon themselves to speak on behalf of all editors and couldn't distinguish between words of a character and those of an author I would check the return address to find out whether I hadn't mistakenly sent the manuscript to some crackpot publication by mistake.

Editors all correct mistakes and poor writing. If you find an editor who thinks a senetnec fragment like that is meant to show hesitation in speech, you've definitely found a crackpot.

Such sentences are all too common, and I've never heard of anyone, othe rthan you, say that's a way of showing hesitation. Slush piles are full of manuscripts with sentences like that, and they're in those manuscripts because they writers don't know any better. So editors either reject the story, if there are too many, or fix such sentences, if there are only a few.

There are some thing at all editors do. All editors fix spelling, typos, grammar, and punctuation. This is the editor's job. A sentence fragment like that is not going t give any editor the idea that you use dit to show hesitation. It's going to give the editor the idea that you don't understand proper sentence construction because that's all it is.

I can distinguish between words of a character, and words of the writer, but just because a character speaks the words does not mean anything goes, and does not mean anyone is going to read that as hesitation in speech. It will be read for what it is, which is a poor sentence fragment where there should be none.
 

J.S.Fairey

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I can distinguish between words of a character, and words of the writer, but just because a character speaks the words does not mean anything goes, and does not mean anyone is going to read that as hesitation in speech. It will be read for what it is, which is a poor sentence fragment where there should be none.

This probably isn't worth inciting the wrath of JAR for, but come on man! An editor who goes through and edits every piece of speech to perfection is going to be an editor who creates really, really bad books. I'd get it if you were talking about prose (which should always be grammatically correct, fair enough) but speech is different. People don't speak like dictionaries, or textbooks. They speak in sentence fragments, and make grammar errors.

Anyways. OP, I'd say if it's a straight one or the other, use the ellipses. I'd rather have a bit of action thrown in between the two whys though, as I agree the repetition is slightly contrived.
 

Ken

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Editors all correct mistakes and poor writing. If you find an editor who thinks a senetnec fragment like that is meant to show hesitation in speech, you've definitely found a crackpot.

Such sentences are all too common, and I've never heard of anyone, othe rthan you, say that's a way of showing hesitation. Slush piles are full of manuscripts with sentences like that, and they're in those manuscripts because they writers don't know any better. So editors either reject the story, if there are too many, or fix such sentences, if there are only a few.

There are some thing at all editors do. All editors fix spelling, typos, grammar, and punctuation. This is the editor's job. A sentence fragment like that is not going t give any editor the idea that you use dit to show hesitation. It's going to give the editor the idea that you don't understand proper sentence construction because that's all it is.

I can distinguish between words of a character, and words of the writer, but just because a character speaks the words does not mean anything goes, and does not mean anyone is going to read that as hesitation in speech. It will be read for what it is, which is a poor sentence fragment where there should be none.

From my own experience, people tend to hesitate, back-pedal, or whatnot by following up with a fragment, as here, resulting in awkward, choppy dialogue that's off. And it should be as the character is fumbling about, themselves, in attempt to find the right words, etc.

"That's one of your strong points. One of the reasons why I'd never stand in your way."

Maybe not the ideal example, but the overall I know people who speak like this, e.g. when trying to reword something they had planned, mid-sentence, so as to put their point across more delicately, etc. So why not do so in dialogue?

To show hesitation or any departure from the ordinary you generally want to cue in the reader in some way or other. Fragments can do that, just as dots can.

My two cents of course. And I do appreciate the insight. Perhaps the next manuscript I send out will be sent as a read-only document ;-)
 

Roxxsmom

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I think of an m-dash as being more for abruptly cut off speech, while an ellipsis is more hesitation or trailing off.

"The thing is..."

"What thing? Forchrissakes, can you finish a damned sentence for once?"

vs

"The thing is--"

"What thing?"

"Stop interrupting me!"