yeah but I bet you don't do it because you're too silly or too young to use them. Just that whole thing about usually you can use a shorter word instead.
Shady's Edgy YA (or sex, swearing, drinking, drugs, and violence in YA)
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well that is a case where it's best to use one long word instead. It like...changes depending on the situation, man.
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I'll agree that part of the argument against Go Ask Alice is rather silly. Teens use big words all the time. Heck, I used big words in my teen writings, mainly because I hadn't learned when to use shorter ones yet. 
But the "editor" of Go Ask Alice, Beatrice Sparks, has long been under a storm of controversy for the "nonfiction" she put out in the form of "diaries." In some cases, she had real diary/journal entries but then manipulated them somehow. There was one case where she was given access to the journal of a boy who committed suicide, but then she allegedly "pumped up" the book by adding other entries. They might have come from other boys, or they could have been written by ghostwriters. (There is a YA/children's writer who confessed to writing some parts of Go Ask Alice as a ghostwriter, but I can't remember her name.)
But the "editor" of Go Ask Alice, Beatrice Sparks, has long been under a storm of controversy for the "nonfiction" she put out in the form of "diaries." In some cases, she had real diary/journal entries but then manipulated them somehow. There was one case where she was given access to the journal of a boy who committed suicide, but then she allegedly "pumped up" the book by adding other entries. They might have come from other boys, or they could have been written by ghostwriters. (There is a YA/children's writer who confessed to writing some parts of Go Ask Alice as a ghostwriter, but I can't remember her name.)
I read Cut but not My Brother's Keeper. Unfortunately by now I don't remember enough about it except that I guess I liked it, but at the same time, I can see why it might not qualify as edgy. Sorta. I just don't remember why, just general impressions. I mean, I thought it was OK, but I can see why it disappointed some. Maybe the ending was too pat? (Or maybe I should just read it again to figure out what I think about it.)
What's the difference between edgy and fake-edgy? What other authors and books do you think qualify as fake-edgy?
Cut and My Brother's Keeper, about SI and drug abuse respectively, seemed to me, in a lot of ways, like Go Ask Alice (which I liked and didn't know was forged until I read that link, and I'm currently faced with some extreme disillusionment.) They seemed like instruction manuals disguised as novels. But unlike Go Ask Alice, where whoever the author was at least knew what she was talking about, Cut and My Brother's Keeper made Patricia McCormick sound like all she'd done was read other books on the same subject. It's the same old stuff, the same all SI is bad and only done by people with really, really crappy lives but it's still not good and drug abuse is bad, very bad, and you shouldn't cover for someone you love who's doing drugs but you can't hate them either and by the end they will promise to stop and you know that they mean it. They were very after-school specialy to me.
Omg yes. This is the generation who invented txt tlk after all. Who wants to spend time typing out all those elaborate, polysyllabic words when you can tlk lyk dis? It saves time, which, again, can be spent at the spa gettin' fabulous.
As for Go Ask Alice, I've never read it. I honestly don't give a cr*p about people who ruin their lives with drugs. It makes me sad and depressed and forces me to examine the purpose of life, which inevitably brings up the internal discussion in which I confront my mortality.
Yeah, I confront my mortality about once a week. This is why I read humor novels, and not novels about people dying from drugs. I'll read novels about sex, though. Sex is fine with me.
Need to get back to work...
I haven't read Cut, though I can picture the cover, so I can't say anything about it, but I would hate to write something people considered fake edgy, I think I'd rather purposefully write fluff.
You know that totally makes sense about Story of a Girl, it is more of a coming of age novel. My favorite part was the first paragraph, which was talking about the edgy stuff that happened before the story took place!
I strongly believe that there are a million types of teenagers, and no such thing as just one teenage voice, I hate authors who think putting totally into their writing a bunch makes it sound youthful, that's totally passe', but the thing is consistency. There are certainly smart teens with who have a better master of the language than most adults, it just has to all flow together.
You know that totally makes sense about Story of a Girl, it is more of a coming of age novel. My favorite part was the first paragraph, which was talking about the edgy stuff that happened before the story took place!
I strongly believe that there are a million types of teenagers, and no such thing as just one teenage voice, I hate authors who think putting totally into their writing a bunch makes it sound youthful, that's totally passe', but the thing is consistency. There are certainly smart teens with who have a better master of the language than most adults, it just has to all flow together.
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This is All (Aidan Chambers -- I mentioned it a couple posts back) has done a really good job so far at making a teenage voice that isn't all "totally" and whatnot. At first I thought it might be, but I bought it anyway. Now I'm find out that it's actually quite good and the mc sounds even more realistic than some real people, truthfully...
I type how I talk. Does that mean I got a handle on this cross-talk, fellow berks? I mean how hard is it to chord-up with these jinky-jinks anyway? I Cant like the best of the cutters out there, except for the barmy ones. You know...the ones with the hair.
If I'm not a good enough cony on how teens use biglongs, then I'm in Limbo without a Githyanki.
No, I'm not just making this up. I've seen the cover of Cut and shied away, mostly because of the resoundingly selfish and short sighted reason that I like Sci-Fi and Fantasy, and to a lesser extent, Warhammer 40,000. Why read about normal people when I can read about normal people with laser beams coming out of their eyes?
If I'm not a good enough cony on how teens use biglongs, then I'm in Limbo without a Githyanki.
No, I'm not just making this up. I've seen the cover of Cut and shied away, mostly because of the resoundingly selfish and short sighted reason that I like Sci-Fi and Fantasy, and to a lesser extent, Warhammer 40,000. Why read about normal people when I can read about normal people with laser beams coming out of their eyes?
Nope, but I read Life is Funny a few years ago and I'd like to read it again. It was pretty good. America's about the teenage runaway, right?
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Yup. It's one of those books that, when you finish, you put it down and say "wow". At least I did...lol
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That makes sense to me. At least Beatrice Sparks did work as a counsellor. Also, the teens whose journals and diaries she used (and there was a real teen in at least one case, so I'm sure there were real teens in the other cases) spoke from experience. Patricia McCormick, on the other hand, graduated with a degree in journalism.
(Of course, that doesn't mean she doesn't have personal experience with SI and drugs, but it's an interesting difference.)I kind of like after-school specialy books some of the time. Depends on my mood. But they shouldn't pretend to be edgy. I do remember the ending seemed pat. She talked to her father and everything was OK. It seemed over too quickly after that. That seems to be a problem with a lot of YA books, even ones I've liked. The protagonists go through all sorts of turmoil and trauma, and then everything is made OK too easily at the end.
So what are the good, edgy books about SI, particularly for young adults? Are there any? And how do they approach the topic?
Good question.
I haven't read Bleed, but it looked like it might be good. It's Kind of a Funny Story is about depression and suicide, not SI, but it's fantastic and the author definitely knows his stuff. (And I'm not just saying that because I'm madly in love with him.)
Beyond that, I'm really searching...I know one of our members here wrote a book on SI, and it looked really good.
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What's SI stand for? I understand the meaning, but I don't know the words...
Anyway, Bleed is amazing. It's not really about SI, so much. Well, one of the main characters uses it as a release, but that's not the bulk of the story. The title, I think, is using the word bleed in a more figurative sense, as in bleeding emotions, etc. Excellent book, though. One of my favorites, without a doubt. (though, I'm kind of obsessed with all of Stolarz' work...) I highly recommend it.
Anyway, Bleed is amazing. It's not really about SI, so much. Well, one of the main characters uses it as a release, but that's not the bulk of the story. The title, I think, is using the word bleed in a more figurative sense, as in bleeding emotions, etc. Excellent book, though. One of my favorites, without a doubt. (though, I'm kind of obsessed with all of Stolarz' work...) I highly recommend it.
How about a gay MC whose father raised him to be the next Hitler, and who falls for the first Jewish boy he meets? It sounds like I've tried too hard, I know, but I didn't intend for him to be gay. I did more and more research on Adolf Hitler, and I truly believe that part of his hatred of Jews stemmed from hatred of himself and whatever happened to him during those years in Vienna. And he was holding hands with another guy in the Beer Hall Pustch, a man who got shot (later died) and Hitler used him as a human shield (something that also happens to my MC).
I wasn't trying to write YA, but it seems I have. I wasn't trying to write edgy, but by your definition, it's edgy. I wanted to write really dark fiction: what if a Klansman raised his son to be the next Adolf Hitler? I think this could be happening RIGHT NOW here in this country, and it scares the crap out of me. So I wrote.
The first seven chapters were about him, but not from his PoV. Then, in chapter eight, Dolf took over. He had a back story he wanted to share with me, and share he did. Fifty straight pages, he told me how his brothers would tease him, how his father would beat him, how his father killed his best friend when he discovered he was gay. The boy is so afraid of his father, he will do anything. But, when his mom leaves his dad and takes Dolf with her, he's on his own. And that's when he falls in love with Louis, the first Jewish boy he meets, who happens to be the son of the antagonist, the Jewish English teacher.
Not that you all wanted to know about my book, but I just wanted to share that my book became edgy because that's what it is, not because I sat down and said, "I'm going to write something edgy today." It wasn't like that. It just happened.
And now for a comment on the thread as a whole. Thanks, Shady, for helping me to define that yes, indeed, I do have a YA book on my hands. And I'm going to have to shorten it a little to make it work, but I've already cut it from 186k, so from 112k to 80k is going to seem like cake (well, maybe...lol).
No problem. I'm glad everyone's liked this thread so much. I was afraid I'd get my blasphemous ass booed out of YA.
Your book sounds fantastic, honestly, and definitely like something I would read. Don't stress too much about length--100K YA's are out there, and getting more and more popular. Even in the christened bubble-gum YA, things are getting bigger (Sarah Dessen, the queen of bubble gum, has written quite a few doorstoppers.) As long as you've done all the cutting you can and the book is as short as you can make it, I'm sure it will be short enough. Break a leg, and definitely hang out here for awhile.
The opening scene in my novel has my female teenage protagonist vomiting frozen margaritas. A clerk overheard my friend and I discussing said intro at a local bookstore and she decided to offer the *sage* advice that it might be rather inappropriate for the YA audience. My friend promptly told her to "sod off," but I was left wondering why the rubbernecker in question had felt that way.
Recently had blackberry margaritas. Very yummy!
And, um, yes, teens drink. When I lived in San Diego, "ahem" years ago, us teens would head to TJ and drink where it was legal for 18 year olds, and they didn't really check for fake ID. Of course there were occasions when friends were thrown into jail until they could pay off the police. Very dangerous! But might be interesting for a book though.
And, um, yes, teens drink. When I lived in San Diego, "ahem" years ago, us teens would head to TJ and drink where it was legal for 18 year olds, and they didn't really check for fake ID. Of course there were occasions when friends were thrown into jail until they could pay off the police. Very dangerous! But might be interesting for a book though.
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Teens drink. It's a fact of life. Simply because it's available and also because it's a social think and then yet too you bring in the fact that you're not allowed to makes it all the more tempting. I happen to live in a state where underage drinking is the worst in the U.S., so I know it's out there and you just know it happens. You see it at school sometimes, people hung over, because they're stupid and drink on a Sunday night.
That seemed like a lot of babble. Oh well?
That seemed like a lot of babble. Oh well?
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I have several theories.
1) The clerk has never read a YA book, or at least hasn't read one since 1972.
2) The clerk doesn't understand the wide age range of tye YA category. (Heck, I've seen stores that used to shelve YA and children's books together until very recently, so this is possible.)
3) The clerk knows very well that such things are allowed in YA books but disapproves of it.
4) The clerk is a busybody.