death pending criminal case

jclarkdawe · Nov 20, 2014

If you have a pending criminal case and die, the criminal case is dismissed.

Now I know that some courts don't check the national death registry. They just dismiss the case based upon a death certificate, assuming that the death certificate is not forged.

What I realized I'm not sure of is whether the reason a case is dismissed goes into the Federal data base. In other words, if the police ran the ID of someone purporting to be this individual, they'd find he'd been charged with a crime and the case dismissed. That's not a problem.

It's a big problem if when they run a record it comes back that the case was dismissed because the person is dead.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

T Robinson · Nov 20, 2014

jclarkdawe said:
What I realized I'm not sure of is whether the reason a case is dismissed goes into the Federal data base. In other words, if the police ran the ID of someone purporting to be this individual, they'd find he'd been charged with a crime and the case dismissed. That's not a problem.

It's a big problem if when they run a record it comes back that the case was dismissed because the person is dead.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

I don't know the answer, but for clarification for me, what do you mean by Federal data base?

I know in my state, most data bases, and there are lots just at the state level are not linked.

Ironmikezero will probably know the answer or how to find it, but I suspect they have the same situation at the Federal level.

jclarkdawe · Nov 20, 2014

I'm looking at the data base state troopers and local cops use for a normal traffic stop. I'm not worried about the data base of outstanding wants and warrants.

He has at least one warrant under another identity, but that's not findable unless fingerprints are run.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

T Robinson · Nov 20, 2014

That would be NCIC (National Crime Information Center). Each state has their own that is linked. I have no information on how they check for things like deaths (or reported deaths). I do know that they usually call the issuing agency to verify a hit.

I have had calls from policeman on a traffic stop calling me directly to see if I still want the person they have stopped on my warrant. The list shows the agency and sometimes the officer, with contact information.

I know this does not help, but we've narrowed it to NCIC (I think) and someone may know. I do know I have had several people die while on probation over the years, but none of them had outstanding warrants. If they had, I would have done a warrant recall through our local agency, but I do not know what happens beyond that.

That warrant/want is the database they use.

T Robinson · Nov 20, 2014

http://fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/is/ncic.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ncic

The second one lists the 21 different areas that can be checked. I know you know this, but the link should give examples that might help you. TR

jclarkdawe · Nov 20, 2014

I didn't want to say NCIC as I'm concerned that might exclude a database that would apply. I don't know how all these databases interrelate.

I know that a routine traffic stop includes a check of the validity of the person, either through a license number or cross check through birth date and social security number. I don't know whether there is also a check of the national death registry. To the best of my knowledge, there is no such check. (There is a check of the national death registry when you request a driver's license, however.)

As far as I know, the officer receives a copy of all motor vehicle applications, including motor vehicle violations that were dismissed or found not guilty, and a copy of the person's criminal record. Again, as far as I know, the criminal record contains all arrests, whether the arrest ended in a conviction, dismissal, or other conclusion, unless the record has been expunged. But as far as I know, I don't believe the reason for the dismissal of charges is included on the criminal record. Therefore, if a charge was dismissed because of the death of the defendant, I don't believe that information is carried over into the criminal record.

I'm just not positive.

Jim

T Robinson · Nov 20, 2014

I will try to call the jail tomorrow and ask what the procedure is. As in, is the record deleted completely or amended to show reported death? My guess is deletion, since it would be rather large if no records were deleted, but who knows?

T Robinson · Nov 20, 2014

Jim, see this. It indicates that very often, there will be "unknown disposition." I can also attest to this also. There is a high probability of what you are thinking is correct. Still looking.

http://forums.officer.com/t170114/

jclarkdawe · Nov 20, 2014

If you die in jail or prison, the death is entered into the system. The death is also entered into the national death registry through the death certificate.

This is a death that occurs while the defendant is out on bail. I had two clients who used this as their approach to avoid extensive jail time. One from cancer and one from a gunshot wound. In one case, after the death certificate reached the court, the court dismissed, in one case with just the dismissal form filled out, the other with the case dismissed because of death of the defendant.

How the police/prosecutor entered this on their form for ending the case I don't know. And I know there's a lot of "unknown disposition." Unknown disposition is a potential problem, as police often start checking more, especially if the charge is serious, but this isn't something my character can control.

Problem is my character is anal retentive about this stuff.

Jim

T Robinson · Nov 20, 2014

Maybe someone will come along that knows, but this

http://www.ntis.gov/products/ssa-dmf.aspx

as far as I know is not part of what can be obtained from the normal check on a traffic stop. I have never seen "death" on any rap sheet. Of course I wasn't looking. Like I said, I'll try to call a couple of places tomorrow. Gone for the night.

Bufty · Nov 21, 2014

Don't want to derail, Jim, but out of pure curiosity did your clients get away with it, and presumably they did it without your knowledge?

jclarkdawe said:
If you die in jail or prison, the death is entered into the system. The death is also entered into the national death registry through the death certificate.

This is a death that occurs while the defendant is out on bail. I had two clients who used this as their approach to avoid extensive jail time. One from cancer and one from a gunshot wound. In one case, after the death certificate reached the court, the court dismissed, in one case with just the dismissal form filled out, the other with the case dismissed because of death of the defendant.

How the police/prosecutor entered this on their form for ending the case I don't know. And I know there's a lot of "unknown disposition." Unknown disposition is a potential problem, as police often start checking more, especially if the charge is serious, but this isn't something my character can control.

Problem is my character is anal retentive about this stuff.

Jim

jclarkdawe · Nov 21, 2014

Take a look at this case -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Lay

Defense attorneys count any dismissal as a victory. Sometimes it doesn't work out so well for our clients. But in both cases I mention, the cases were dismissed and no finding of guilt was entered on them.

Jim

King Neptune · Nov 21, 2014

In some circumstances there's a lot to be said for arranging one's own death.

Bufty · Nov 21, 2014

Arranging is one thing- but it appears they didn't die. :snoopy:

King Neptune said:
In some circumstances there's a lot to be said for arranging one's own death.

King Neptune · Nov 21, 2014

Bufty said:
Arranging is one thing- but it appears they didn't die.

Yes, that's the way to do it. It saves funeral expenses. Then there's the matter of creating a new identity, preferably in a different country.

ironmikezero · Nov 21, 2014

Closing a case when the suspect is alleged to be dead is largely at the investigating agency's discretion. I can tell you that, absent extenuating circumstances, we usually closed our (federal) cases upon confirmation of the death of the suspect, (think certified copy of the death certificate, postmortem report, etc.) and submitted the final report through the US Attorney's office to the court. If there was any question as to the validity of the certification, we looked into it - thoroughly.

Steve Collins · Nov 24, 2014

I'm a P.I. If I run a Social through my databases it comes up "Deceased' if the person is dead. I then double check it through the Social Security Death Index. Don't know if this helps any?

death pending criminal case

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

T Robinson

Born long ago, in a different era

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

T Robinson

Born long ago, in a different era

T Robinson

Born long ago, in a different era

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

T Robinson

Born long ago, in a different era

T Robinson

Born long ago, in a different era

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

T Robinson

Born long ago, in a different era

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

King Neptune

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

King Neptune

ironmikezero

practical experience, FTW

Steve Collins