Titles and topics to steer clear of?

Man in a suit

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Hi,
I'm new here and am just setting out on writing my first set of erotica ebooks.
I have done a lot of research prior to actually writing my books and have seen a lot of discussion regarding Amazon etc not allowing kindle/ebook erotica which have certain topics in their titles, blurbs or actual content. The obvious ones being, under 18 characters, incest, bestiality etc, although the items being banned from sale seem to be a bit wider than that, or even if they just hint at it, such as having the word 'Daddy' in the title!
Yesterday I decided to do more research and visited Barnes & Noble and entered 'erotica' in their search bar and was amazed to see on the first page a whole host of titles such as 'Busting Sisters Cherry', 'Banging the Babysitter', 'The Raping of a College Cheerleader', 'Daddy's Gift' etc etc including another about a girl having sex with horses!
So now I'm totally confused as to what is acceptable and what isn't?
I don't want to waste my time writing stories which are not going to get past the censors, and have no intention of writing about obviously illegal activities, but where do we sensibly draw the line if we want our books to sell?
Stuff that pushes the boundaries such as 'Daddy' roleplay between adults I would imagine is a big seller, but is it worth the risk?
All help much appreciated!
 
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Maryn

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Nice to have you here, Man in a suit. Welcome!

Clearly B&N's policies are not Amazon's policies. My understanding is that both retailers deliberately avoid having their policies for what is acceptable, from cover art to titles to content, spelled out. I presume that's because naming specifics is a challenge or invitation, to some, to see how close you can get to breaking the rule without breaking it outright.

Amazon is clearly not cool with the incest-y and under-age titles and content. Apparently B&N is.

What I'd probably focus on is two-fold. One, what I'm interested in writing (whether I'm interested in real life or not), and two, what's acceptable to commercial publishers and/or retailers of self-published work. If you know a large potential market is not available to you for your girl-with-horse fiction (Amazon), then you'd be going in with your eyes wide open if you decided to write it anyway.

Maryn, not the authority on this
 

V.W.Singer

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"Pretend incest" is being targeted heavily by not just Amazon but the credit card companies.

Anything based upon incest (even fake), underage (even 17, sometimes even 18!) and rape (as a pastime or described as such) is very risky at the moment. The list of words that are verboten on the covers and blurbs also include blood, drug, drunk, force, kidnap, scat, murder, death, and many more.
 

Man in a suit

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Thanks for your info.
Seems like everyone is running scared of being associated with anything risky regarding sex, although extreme violence and murder fiction can be as bloodthirsty and disgusting as you like and thats ok. The world has gone mad. Paranoia, puritanism and political correctness have become all powerful.
 

veinglory

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It is not generalized risk so much as the US obscenity laws. Under age and incest have precedent establishing them as obscene and therefore potentially illegal. Non-consent, bestiality etc is less of a problem but may be suppressed if there are complaints about the title.
 

V.W.Singer

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But it is money too. If Paypal, Visa, Amex etc won't handle the transaction because of the title or cover or whatever, then you can be legal as all hell and still be dead in the water.

You can fight a law in court, but there is no appeal against VISA and the rest unless the public reacts strongly to it - which they won't because we are talking about "dirty books".
 

dangerousbill

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Stuff that pushes the boundaries such as 'Daddy' roleplay between adults I would imagine is a big seller, but is it worth the risk?
All help much appreciated!

There's a discussion going on in ERWA on this, from people who've run headlong into the arbitrariness of the Amazon rules.

It seems that naked breasts and crotches are right off the table in cover art, not to mention art that hints of incest, bestiality, or scat. (I can't image a cover that tackles the latter.)

As for content, it appears that the policy changes from week to week, and that some authors get past the barricades, while others are caught by fairly trivial things. For all we know, there may be write-ins organized by abstinence freaks, Bible/Quran-thumpers, grandstanding politicians, and other sex-hating groups that influences Amazon's policies from day to day.

To be reasonable safe. stay away from under-18s, incest, scat, animals, nonconsensual, and a few others, but watch the forums to see which way the market winds are blowing. This is a very dynamic thing right now.
 

veinglory

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Role play incest was tolerated on Amazon for a while but if now not permitted. And language even suggestive of incest or underage can cause trouble (e.g. school girl, virgin),
 

M.N Thorne

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Man in a suit, I have a different take on the matter since I have self-published works on Barnes and Nobel plus Amazon. Amazon is very PC now because of some sort of moral panic. For dirtier works, Barnes and Nobel will published pretend incest titles and some forced fantasies. Since I work as PSO and adult marketing affiliate, I know something about obscene laws when it comes to more perverse fantasies around the world. I find it funny that America sensor books but not what we can discuss over the telephone. Cheers.
 

briannasealock

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It's probably BEST to stay away from things that are getting banned at amazon, unless you don't plan on using their self publishing services and selling it yourself. How, I don't know. Paypal is also going after erotica authors for reasons that I think are bs.

I actually cannot stand silly titles, I prefer serious titles. Even in erotic fiction.
 

Ann_Mayburn

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Look, it's a title meant to sell your book. If the title is actually keeping the book from being sold it is doing something wrong. With this in mind I would err on the side of caution with titles containing:

Daughter/Brother/Sister/etc
Rape
Forced
Reluctant
Virgin
All swearing
etc

Keep in mind that these words may or may not get you banned, but they will give you a review flag which means someone has to physically look at your book and decide if it's friend or foe. A reviewer's personal judgement can go conservative or liberal, but most often conservative because their ass gets in a sling if they don't flag what Amazon deems inappropriate.
 

briannasealock

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I mean very crass titles. Try to go for something that describes your story but won't make people cringe. lol. sorry. I've read a lot of stuff online and there are just some stories I won't read because of the title.
 

genlablanc

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I think it's a bit of overreaching on Amazon's part. Honestly, yeah some of the titles are bit ridiculous, but as a reader I certainly don't want some third party trying to tell me what I should read and shouldn't read.

Hell, until this post I didn't even realized that Amazon censors and filters the books they sell this much. It also makes it harder for writers who do want to write a bit outside the box.
 

briannasealock

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I think it's a bit of overreaching on Amazon's part. Honestly, yeah some of the titles are bit ridiculous, but as a reader I certainly don't want some third party trying to tell me what I should read and shouldn't read.

Hell, until this post I didn't even realized that Amazon censors and filters the books they sell this much. It also makes it harder for writers who do want to write a bit outside the box.

I heard on a podcast that any book with the word "naked" in it or some form of that get's censored.
 

Zoe X. Rider

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I mean very crass titles. Try to go for something that describes your story but won't make people cringe. lol. sorry. I've read a lot of stuff online and there are just some stories I won't read because of the title.

On the other hand, there are people who will and do read these stories, in part because the titles were just what they were looking for. When you write, you figure out who you're writing to, and you (or your publisher) aim the title, cover, blurb, and story to that audience. You maybe wouldn't write for that audience, but other people do, and readers buy, and everyone's happy.
 

briannasealock

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On the other hand, there are people who will and do read these stories, in part because the titles were just what they were looking for. When you write, you figure out who you're writing to, and you (or your publisher) aim the title, cover, blurb, and story to that audience. You maybe wouldn't write for that audience, but other people do, and readers buy, and everyone's happy.

true that.
 

M.N Thorne

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Actually, Briannasealock, many people sell taboo erotica stories on their own websites. While many others sell to phone sex companies in order to turn a profit. However, most American phone sex companies will not buy any underage stuff. But many will buy erotica dealing with extreme bondage, snuff, raceplay, nazi fetishes and incest. Many of these authors have made a great income selling to phone sex market.

It's probably BEST to stay away from things that are getting banned at amazon, unless you don't plan on using their self publishing services and selling it yourself. How, I don't know. Paypal is also going after erotica authors for reasons that I think are bs.

I actually cannot stand silly titles, I prefer serious titles. Even in erotic fiction.
 

gingerwoman

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"Pretend incest" is being targeted heavily by not just Amazon but the credit card companies.

Anything based upon incest
Meanwhile Flowers in the Attic and Petals on the Wind published by Simon and Schuster are number one and two for Gothic Romance on Amazon. lol
 

briannasealock

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Actually, Briannasealock, many people sell taboo erotica stories on their own websites. While many others sell to phone sex companies in order to turn a profit. However, most American phone sex companies will not buy any underage stuff. But many will buy erotica dealing with extreme bondage, snuff, raceplay, nazi fetishes and incest. Many of these authors have made a great income selling to phone sex market.

I did not know one could sell to phone sex companies. wow.
 

briannasealock

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Meanwhile Flowers in the Attic and Petals on the Wind published by Simon and Schuster are number one and two for Gothic Romance on Amazon. lol

I tried to watch the movie Flowers in the Attic but couldn't get through it. Maybe they're considered classics or something like that. I don't think Lolita is banned on Amazon.
 

Vbeacher

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Hi,
I don't want to waste my time writing stories which are not going to get past the censors, and have no intention of writing about obviously illegal activities, but where do we sensibly draw the line if we want our books to sell?
Stuff that pushes the boundaries such as 'Daddy' roleplay between adults I would imagine is a big seller, but is it worth the risk?
All help much appreciated!

All we can do is guess. No one will tell you. And that's not just Amazon. I had three books blocked at Apple recently. The only thing they seem to have in common is interracial sex, and a BDSM (consensual) theme. Apple is often no more clear than Amazon on why they ban a book, giving you no chance to make changes. But whatever their criteria is it's stricter than Amazon.

Covers and titles, as well as blurbs, can get a book banned, or if not banned squashed by the horrible 'adult tag' at Amazon.

Generally, keep the cover as tame as possible. Just because you can see it on television doesn't mean Amazon wants to see it on their site. A cover which features a woman's butt in a thong, for example, won't get you blocked, but it will likely get your book adult tagged. Good luck selling anything after that.

Certain words which even hint at anything underage, non-consensual or beastiesh can get your book blocked or adult tagged. Slave is one (and no, they don't care if it's consensual). School, even if used metaphorically, is out. I had to redo a blurb because it said something along the lines of "raw, animal hunger" and their software didn't like the word 'animal'. I had to redo a cover and the only reason I can think of was the model looked to someone like she might be in the neighborhood of too young (she was actually mid 20s)

Topics that will get you blocked outright are pretty much as you've guessed, though another big one is non-consensual sex of ANY kind, and that includes if someone is drunk or drugged or blackmailed. Any sort of familial relationship sex, in addition to incest, will likely get you blocked. That includes with relatives who are not any kind of blood relationship (ie, the uncle who married your dad's sister). I had a book blocked because it was about an affair between a woman and her new father-in-law.

Keywords are another thing. Watch what you put in as a keyword on amazon (dunno about Apple). The wrong keyword, like say 'anal' will get you adult tagged. Same for blurbs. Don't be too specific.
 

briannasealock

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now that I think about it; write whatever you want. Find a place that isn't Apple or Amazon to publish. That's all I can think of to get around the problem.
 

Rechan

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Also avoid interior art or images that would be considered adults only. My publisher stopped putting their books on Amazon because many contain interior art that Amazon considered inappropriate.
 

Elly_Green

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I might want to mention that this is all somewhat random as I publish most of my works under the "Myths/Legends/FairyTale" tag first and the romance/erotic romance/erotica tag second (through KDP). Since I delve into the erotic side of mythology, many of my stories involve questionable consent and/or sibling relationships. Heck, even if I wasn't sexualizing these stories, this stuff abounds. So far, nothing of mine as caught the attention of Amazon's adult filter and I use a tone of the no-no words in my blurbs and descriptions.

I wonder if others notice more or less strictness outside of the romance and erotica categories? Even if you are writing erotic literature.
 

veinglory

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Genres other than erotica are far less likely to be subject to an obscenity charge, so yes, they can and do have these banned topics