Dipping my toes into editing

Unless you are, or have been, in position to do professional copy editing, professional story editing, or in the position of actually buying books for a publisher, a fair price would be nothing.

There are far too many completely unqualified "editors" out there as it is. We don't need more.

Offer to do the job for free, and see if he likes the results. If he does, and if he then sells the book, you have the basis for charging writers for a service.

Quite frankly, I think every hiring an "editor" is a horrible idea, and the writer is doing himself a huge disservice.

And a writer should never have to pay for gaping plot holes or inconsistencies. And, of course, to see if it is enjoyable/readable. Any free beta reader can do these things.

I agree with everyone else: editing isn't something that everyone can do, and without proper experience and training it's not likely that you'll be able to do a good job for your friend no matter how little you charge him.

Spelling, punctuation and grammar tend to get fixed by the copyeditor, not by the editor. If you don't understand why this is, or even realise that's how it's done, then with all due respect to you, no matter how good your intentions are I doubt that you have the skills or experience required to do the job well.

I'm not convinced that writers should hire editors if they're going to look for a trade publishing contract either: it can help some people, but on the whole I think it's an unnecessary expense.

As someone who has/does edit professionally but would not call themselves an editor by trade, I'll throw in some extra things to think about.

I edit as a tech editor, sort of a story editor for technical non-fiction. This is not proofreading, but editing for content and flow. Mostly, for understandability since I edit authors who do not have English as a primary language. For this type of editing, you need to know the field as well as writing. You also need to be able to edit and not rewrite, changing the feel of the original author. That's the hard part.

On the flip side, I edit copy for editorial and advertising work and do copyrighting as well. This is an easier issue since it mostly comes down to suggestions rather than definite edits. In this, I don't control the final output but work to enhance what the writer already has.

Lastly, I have a friend who is a copy editor, better than I am by far, look at my work for me. She doesn't charge (okay, dinner out...) but catches all those stupid errors you can't see as the author. This works well before submitting work for agents/publishers because I get a clean manuscript.

Now that I'm working on some self-publishing projects, I will be using several editors in the process. A story editor along with beta readers, a copy editor/proofreader and maybe a final edit. Even though I produce very clean and clear copy (work in a newsroom for a while...), there are always issues.

So, edit your friend's work as a friend or as a pro. You can't be both. Friends don't charge for favors. Pros don't feel bad when they hurt their clients feelings.

Jeff

Calla Lily said:

James, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but you are also insulting myself and all the other editors on AW when you say this:



RYFW applies to writers who are also editors.

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I'll be the first to admit that, while my spelling and context are great, my punctuation and paragraph breakdowns tend to be loopy.
Thus...I use an editor. My beta's take care of story flow and such, while the editor is just there for punctuation.

As someone who edits for a living, I'll make a couple comments.

First, you have to start somewhere. But charging someone for the first few jobs is unlikely to be fair unless you've had training already. A careful reader who's good at spelling and grammar is not necessarily a good editor, though certainly could be a good beta reader. To become a good editor, you'll need feedback on your work by both readers and professional editors to learn what you might have done differently if you'd had more experience.

Secondly, editors who are qualified all too often end up losing projects to people who aren't... but who think they're pretty good and like the work, so they offer deals for cut-rate services. Then the book often ends up poorly edited, fixing the problems costs more time and money, and another tale of a sloppy editor who wasn't worthwhile makes the rounds, discouraging others from getting their work edited.

I'm another advocate for author edits and beta readers first.

Essentially he's asking you to beta read, which is absolutely fine. If he wants to make a financial restitution for your time, that's very nice of him, but he's not paying you as an editor since you're not an editor. If, under those circumstances, you're not comfortable taking his money because you don't want him to misunderstand why, that's also absolutely fine.

(to be completely honest, if you need the money and he wants to offer it, I don't think there's a problem as long as both of you are clear on the arrangement. Casual financial arrangements between friends can be tricky, though, depending on people's expectations. Personally, I'd let him stand you a drink - > dinner, depending on how much work his ms needs!)

I'm actually surprised to hear someone say that hiring an editor at all is a bad idea, as I'd assumed that all major authors have editors, so why would an editor for any other author be a horrible idea?

I've just started my freelance editing services (link in my sig if you're curious!) and I do it because I honestly enjoy helping people firm up their writing. So far I've helped people who simply need help with "clunkiness" and people who admit English wasn't their first language. The response I've gotten from my critique has been 100% positive so far.

I think what bothers me the most, though, is that like someone else mentioned, there are some really bad editors out there. I've seen samples of work that have already been through a paid editor and the amount of simple errors there are inexcusable.

Pikko said:

I'm actually surprised to hear someone say that hiring an editor at all is a bad idea, as I'd assumed that all major authors have editors, so why would an editor for any other author be a horrible idea?

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You should perhaps read this thread more closely.

The consensus is that while beta-readers are helpful, there's no need for an author to hire their own editor. That's the publisher's job. (Of course, if the writer is self-publishing they are the publisher too, so in that case it makes sense to pay for editing.)

I've just started my freelance editing services (link in my sig if you're curious!) and I do it because I honestly enjoy helping people firm up their writing. So far I've helped people who simply need help with "clunkiness" and people who admit English wasn't their first language. The response I've gotten from my critique has been 100% positive so far.

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I had a look at your website: am I right in that you have no experience of editing for publishers, and your only experience of editing is beta-reading a novel and two short stories? And you're charging $25 an hour to edit now?

Because if I'm right, you have no business charging anyone anything for your editing services until you're a lot more experienced.

And for goodness sake, if you're going to offer proofreading services, learn what proofreading actually involves.

I think what bothers me the most, though, is that like someone else mentioned, there are some really bad editors out there. I've seen samples of work that have already been through a paid editor and the amount of simple errors there are inexcusable.

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Agreed. But it's common in people who set themselves up as editors with no experience or understanding of the job, I'm afraid.

Also, please don't try to find clients for your editing services here. By all means have that link in your signature: but don't use AW to try to drive business to your site. That's spamming and it will get you banned. AGAIN.

I've moved the derail about Pikko's editing services into the thread she started to advertise those services.