Men Have Problems.

lilyWhite

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Having read the initial article...all of the stuff the author lists for why MRAs are terrible don't have anything to do with what MRAs actually advocate, and are just jerks on the internet being jerks. In fact, all the article is is the kind of attitudes that actual MRAs would probably view as the result of society's generalization and stereotyping of men.

It'd probably get rid of the jerks on all sides of all debates if people didn't subscribe to "everyone in [x] group sucks" mentalities.
 

Don

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I'm appalled by all this femsplaining from a position of privilege. As sexual gatekeepers coming from a position of power, females can't possibly grasp the complex and subtle roadblocks you erect to keep the disadvantaged class of men who aren't getting any in their "proper place."
 
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It's bad.

The other day, the horrid Return of Kings blog posted an article titled, 3 Reasons Why Most Female Writers Are Garbage. (Note: I used donotlink.com on this link, because I don't want to give this blog any hits that would raise it's rank on the internet.)

I have no idea how a blog like this hasn't gotten pulled off the internet. Or sabotaged. Or whatever. Free speech, I suppose.

I love how he brags about a girl asking him to judge her writing. Because, you know, being published on the Spearhead and using lots of expletives makes you a talented editor...
 
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Having read the initial article...all of the stuff the author lists for why MRAs are terrible don't have anything to do with what MRAs actually advocate, and are just jerks on the internet being jerks. In fact, all the article is is the kind of attitudes that actual MRAs would probably view as the result of society's generalization and stereotyping of men.

It'd probably get rid of the jerks on all sides of all debates if people didn't subscribe to "everyone in [x] group sucks" mentalities.


Having read a lot of stuff from the main online podiums of the MRA movement, I don't think the article is that far off. A lot of the more valuable propositions put out by MRAs are most often used to cloak the "women suck" mentality. There may be a few individual MRAs who take that stuff more seriously, but none of them that I've seen are free from the garbage aspects.
 

Brutal Mustang

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I love how he brags about a girl asking him to judge her writing. Because, you know, being published on the Spearhead and using lots of expletives makes you a talented editor...

His article as an extra layer of idiotic on it, when you consider how many of the gatekeepers in trade publishing are women, and would not work with him if they saw he wrote this. I dunno. Maybe he plans on self-publishing his whole life?
 

Zoombie

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There's an infinitesimally small layer of actual point in the MRA scene.

Of course, all that stuff I actually consider legitimate complaints? Things like how only men are drafted, how male victims of abuse are stigmatized, and so on?

Those are all things feminists don't like.

Patriarchal social values (I.E, the social values we are currently struggling with, because despite almost a century of concentrated effort, ideas are remarkably hard to get rid of in their entirety) have their upsides and downsides for men and women.

It's just the upside for men is...considerably bigger for most men than the downsides are. And the downsides for women are considerably larger for most women than the upsides are.

In my opinion, a lot of MRAs are entitled and feeling as if they deserve something. And...to be honest, I'm not sure I can blame them as much as I'd enjoy. I struggled with the self same entitlement in my life. Ever since I was young enough to read books or see movies, there is the continual narrative of heroes and romance and winning a woman. And it built up this concept in my head that I
deserved a girl, and if I was just super nice to a hot one, then I'd get sex.

Life doesn't work that way.

Girls aren't slot machines that you can put kindness coins into and get paid in sex. They're people who have their own desires and wants and foibles and upsides and downsides and all the messy contradictions that makes me so fascinating. And, the other thing I had to learn? All those "jerks" who got girls that I mooned after? They weren't just cardboard cutouts either. They were people...and I was just seeing one facet of their personalities and their lives.

When I realized my entitlements and assumptions weren't true, I was extremely fortunate.

I had Absolute Write and all the friends here that I've made (most of them older women, I point out.)

I didn't have a bunch of...similarly disappointed men creating an echo chamber around my head, who then attracted (or included from the get go) more simple and pure creeps like full on Pick Up Artists (ugh).

So, yeah.

The good points MRAs have can be solved with feminism. Everything else just requires growing the fuck up.
 

amergina

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I always chuckle bitterly when MRAs bring up that only men can be drafted. Why?

'cause had the Equal Rights Amendment passed... women could be drafted, too.
 

maxmordon

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Statistically, men see less a doctor than women do. This is a problem. In the US, the traditionally male-dominated manufacturing industry has been in decline leading to many with a limited set of skills jobless. This is a problem. Men are less likely to report abuse than women are. This is a problem. Men, just like women, have to face ridiculous social expectations that force them to put an imprisoning, emotionally-stunting facade out of fear on what others, especially other men, will think about him. That's a problem.

That there are more women working on male-dominated fields? That's not a problem, that's something that should be celebrated and encouraged. That they added a female character to your favorite TV show/movie/videogame/comic/etc. and you don't like it? That's no a problem, that's whining. That your That you can't get laid? That's not a goddamn problem to anyone but you.


Gosh, what an insufferable jerk. I bet he tries hard to bring up the language thing in conversations.
 

maxmordon

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Ever since I was young enough to read books or see movies, there is the continual narrative of heroes and romance and winning a woman. And it built up this concept in my head that I
deserved a girl, and if I was just super nice to a hot one, then I'd get sex.

Life doesn't work that way.

Girls aren't slot machines that you can put kindness coins into and get paid in sex. They're people who have their own desires and wants and foibles and upsides and downsides and all the messy contradictions that makes me so fascinating. And, the other thing I had to learn? All those "jerks" who got girls that I mooned after? They weren't just cardboard cutouts either. They were people...and I was just seeing one facet of their personalities and their lives.

Check point 3 from this article. It's very spot on about this.
 

nighttimer

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His article as an extra layer of idiotic on it, when you consider how many of the gatekeepers in trade publishing are women, and would not work with him if they saw he wrote this. I dunno. Maybe he plans on self-publishing his whole life?

Speaking of gatekeeepers, the Boston Marathon is being held today and Deadspin is featuring a good article about Kathrine Switzer who challenged the tradition of banning women from participating in the event.

Switzer didn't file a lawsuit seeking an injunction or lead a protest against the sexist exclusion. She subverted the ban by running in the marathon and much to the anger of one particular official.


Kathrine Switzer, a field hockey player at Lynchburg College in Virginia, noticed Gibb’s historic endeavor. Later that year, after Switzer had transferred to Syracuse University, she started working out with the men’s cross-country team. Arnie Briggs, a mailman at the school and a running devotee, took her under his wing, and soon Switzer was running upwards of 10 miles per training session, albeit at a slow pace.

Briggs was a veteran of many Boston Marathons, and he liked to regale Switzer with its lore. She was intrigued and, after working her way up to a run of 25-plus miles, persuaded Briggs that she was ready for the marathon. He agreed to accompany her, but insisted that as card-carrying members of the AAU, they had to enter the race properly. All that required was getting a medical certificate, paying the entry fee of $2, and filling out an application form. She did so using the non-gender specific name of “K.V. Switzer.”

She was most concerned about being discovered at the start, when longtime Boston Marathon race directors Will Cloney and Jock Semple ushered the runners into the starting area and checked off their bib numbers. But she was fortunate: perhaps because of the frigid conditions or perhaps because she was dressed in oversized sweat clothes, she passed undetected. Now she was part of the field. The plan was that the Syracuse foursome would run together. They started slowly at the gun, well back of the leaders.

In Ashland, at about the two-mile mark, the press and officials’ bus began making its way toward the frontrunners. As it passed the back of the pack, a reporter spotted Switzer, her dark hair swirling in the rain, and yelped to Semple, “Hey, Jock, you’ve got a broad on your hands today.”

Switzer said that what happened next was her nightmare. The bus halted, and out charged Cloney and Semple to defend the sanctity of their race. First Cloney, outfitted in a fedora and overcoat, physically tried to stop Switzer, but she avoided his clutches.

On Patriots’ Day 1967, “Mr. Boston Marathon” was a very angry man. Runner No. 261 had violated the sacred code of the institution that was his baby. She deserved to be punished – and if Cloney couldn’t do the job, then Jock Semple would. “This wasn’t just about me being a girl,” Switzer said. “Jock probably would have left me alone if I was just running along like Bobbi. It was the number that got him. I had made him look like a fool.”

Semple evaded Briggs and lunged at Switzer, grabbing at the cardboard bib pinned to her sweatshirt. “He was pulling at me and screaming, ‘Get the hell out of my race and give me that number,’” Switzer recalled. “Arnie was screaming at Jock, and then Tom smashed Jock out of the way.”
The photos of a furious man trying to halt a woman doing as she pleased and failing is indicative of why the Men's Rights movement has as much chance of blocking the advancement of women as they do of emptying the ocean with a spoon.
 

robeiae

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T
(2) Don't refer to yourself as the "King of Sorrow."

(3) Don't say stuff like "I thought females were impressed by guys with balls who approach and take what they want."

(4) When you use abbreviations like "LMS" (looks money status), you kind of give away that you've been taking seminars in how to pick up chicks, which is in itself a huge turn-off. Ditto with the terms "warm approach" and "cold approach."
Huh.

*goes off to edit online dating profile*

And do you think "Master of the World" would be a better user title?
 

Amadan

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Huh.

*goes off to edit online dating profile*

And do you think "Master of the World" would be a better user title?

It's even better than "Captain Nemo"!


10079817.jpg
 

CassandraW

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Huh.

*goes off to edit online dating profile*

And do you think "Master of the World" would be a better user title?

You should go with "chickslayer." Females will love that.
 

CassandraW

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How about "Bushmaster"? Then I get the NRA and reptile lover bonus points, too...

That could work, but you'll need the right user pic to really get the nuances across.
 

Xelebes

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What do you think this is? A mariachi band? Boy, listen! We're trying to get you a houseslave, I mean a female, so don't play pretty with us!
 

DancingMaenid

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Having read the initial article...all of the stuff the author lists for why MRAs are terrible don't have anything to do with what MRAs actually advocate, and are just jerks on the internet being jerks. In fact, all the article is is the kind of attitudes that actual MRAs would probably view as the result of society's generalization and stereotyping of men.

It'd probably get rid of the jerks on all sides of all debates if people didn't subscribe to "everyone in [x] group sucks" mentalities.

I think MRAs often advocate for things that are genuine issues, but I've yet to come across many people who identified as MRAs who didn't approach those issues through a lens of "and this is why men have it worse than women" or "feminists don't care about our issues." There's very much a rhetoric that feminism and women are to blame, or that feminist are hypocrites who don't really support equality.

For example, it's a real issue that men have to sign up for selective service and women don't. But I don't think I've ever seen an MRA mention the draft without implying that feminists wouldn't support equality if they were at risk of being drafted, with a bonus implication that women don't care if men are drafted as long as they don't have to worry about being drafted, themselves. Which is a huge, apparently unfounded, assumption.

I don't think that a movement that's semi-separated from feminism that addresses the effects of the patriarchy and misogyny on men is inherently a bad idea. But a lot of MRAs seem a lot more focused on women than men, to be honest.
 

clintl

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For example, it's a real issue that men have to sign up for selective service and women don't. But I don't think I've ever seen an MRA mention the draft without implying that feminists wouldn't support equality if they were at risk of being drafted, with a bonus implication that women don't care if men are drafted as long as they don't have to worry about being drafted, themselves. Which is a huge, apparently unfounded, assumption.

The argument that women might *gasp* get drafted was an one that the conservatives used to help kill the ERA, if I recall.

This I don't recall for sure, but I doubt the feminists worried too much about it - they were liberals who probably wanted to eliminate it for everyone.
 
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CassandraW

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I think MRAs often advocate for things that are genuine issues, but I've yet to come across many people who identified as MRAs who didn't approach those issues through a lens of "and this is why men have it worse than women" or "feminists don't care about our issues." There's very much a rhetoric that feminism and women are to blame, or that feminist are hypocrites who don't really support equality.

For example, it's a real issue that men have to sign up for selective service and women don't. But I don't think I've ever seen an MRA mention the draft without implying that feminists wouldn't support equality if they were at risk of being drafted, with a bonus implication that women don't care if men are drafted as long as they don't have to worry about being drafted, themselves. Which is a huge, apparently unfounded, assumption.

I don't think that a movement that's semi-separated from feminism that addresses the effects of the patriarchy and misogyny on men is inherently a bad idea. But a lot of MRAs seem a lot more focused on women than men, to be honest.

Heh. The first time I heard about the MRA movement, I thought immediately of a close friend of mine (a man) who got royally screwed in a divorce on pretty much every front -- and (based on what I thought the movement might be about) I was inclined to be sympathetic. I believe in fairness and equal rights for everyone, even *gasp* men.

But then when I took a look at some MRA websites, they seemed less about stuff like fair custody arrangements in divorces and more about bitching that no-good slutty unintelectyual money-grubbing females wouldn't give them sex intercourses despite their LMS and cold approach.
 
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Roxxsmom

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RE Kaiser's post: This guy might just need to accept that meeting someone is hard. For everyone.

He also has to accept that going into a social situation with the assumption that the other person owes you something is a huge turn off to just about everyone.

Ugh, just ugh.

I'm appalled by all this femsplaining from a position of privilege. As sexual gatekeepers coming from a position of power, females can't possibly grasp the complex and subtle roadblocks you erect to keep the disadvantaged class of men who aren't getting any in their "proper place."

Was the use of the word highlighted in red a coincidence, Don?;)

The argument that women might *gasp* get drafted was an one that the conservatives used to help kill the ERA, if I recall.

This I don't recall for sure, but I doubt the feminists worried too much about it - they were liberals who probably wanted to eliminate it for everyone.

Yep. And I have to ask why, when we haven't had a war that entailed a draft in 50 years, we still have selective service registration for anyone? Selective service for all young men started in the early 80s, by the way. Freaked a lot of them out. I was against it, but as a very young feminist (I was a kid), I thought that it was doubly wrong that it was only men who had to register. I was honestly scared to death that our president and congress implemented this because they were planning on starting a war and drafting people. It made no sense otherwise.
 
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thepicpic

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calling yourself an intellectual -- and misspelling it -- is not the way to pull in the intellectual chicks. Ditto with the word "success."

Beat me to it.

Maybe I'm naive, but I have a hard time believing a movement could rise from the likes of this guy. I mean, it just can't happen, can it? Can it?