The No News is No News Purgatory Thread, Volume 8

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Parametric

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I'm not seeing this as control. I was forced to become self-employed because nobody wanted to hire me - and I was forced to trunk all my manuscripts because nobody wanted to buy them. It's only control if you have options that you actually want.
 

Amarie

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My major worry is that I know he's inherited his father's super-scary-smart genes, and my husband's major problem throughout school was just being incredibly bored. That alone created a huge number of problems, all of which we would like to avoid. :)

And then over here I'm just like, STAY A BABY FOREVER!

Luckily there are an ever increasing number of options and programs so kids like him aren't as bored in school, and by the time they get to high school they have to have the emotional maturity to maximize their intellectual ability.
 

firedrake

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Para, you keep writing until you write a story that an agent/publisher wants.

Billie - I forgot! Many congrats!

Jo, young FD went to pre-school and it was the best thing for him. He has a November birthday so he was one of the older kids in his kindergarten. He also got bored when he was at elementary school in AZ. Luckily his teachers just gave him extra work, or let him read when he'd done his school work. It hasn't done him any harm. And now he's in secondary school, if he gets to the top of a subject group, then he gets moved into the next group. He must have his grandfathers' brains, because he hasn't got the math/science smarts from me!
 

JoNightshade

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Para, part of it is how you look at the situation. You have skills. You have talent. The fact that businesses were unwilling or unable to recognize that is to their detriment, and you probably don't want to work for someone who cannot recognize your value anyway.

You're able to take that talent and go elsewhere with it. Just because it's not what you originally envisioned doesn't make it a second-tier option. Just because your talent doesn't get utilized in the same way doesn't mean you don't have that talent.

I'm gonna go ahead and use an example from television. ;) Netflix has this new series, House of Cards. There's a young journalist with a lot of ambition and talent, but she's not valued at the newspaper where she works because her superiors are blind to her potential. This seems depressing and horrible to her until she realizes they are no longer the only gatekeepers, and ultimately the only person she needs to be responsible to is herself. There's less security, but more POWER in that. When she abandons the old model, she realizes she can basically go anywhere. She just has to figure out what that ANYWHERE means.

BTW, recommendation for any writer: subscribe to Seth Godin's daily posts. They pop into your inbox every morning and it's a fresh look at the changing marketplace of ideas. Gives you a more positive perspective on the whole thing. :)
 

firedrake

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I tried that, and six trunked novels down the line, I've had enough. Sorry. :tongue

Now stop that. Right now.

I have about half a dozen trunked novels. I am a good writer but I have to learn to accept that unless I'm prepared to toss most of the lessons I've learnt about writing away, I'll never be a popular writer in my genre. I suck it up, put on my big girl's pants (and they are big) and get on with it. I'll keep writing and keep writing until I do get that top ten spot on ARe. Even when you get published, there will still be things to get het up about, still things to aim for. Reading through any number of pages on this thread will tell you that. No one is ever satisfied with this game, unless you're a King or a Rowling.

You are still young. Very young. You have your whole life ahead of you and as you live it, you'll experience things that will make your writing richer.

And how many people do you know of your age are successfully self-employed with a growing list of clients and enough income to keep themselves afloat?
 

Haupe

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I'm not seeing this as control. I was forced to become self-employed because nobody wanted to hire me - and I was forced to trunk all my manuscripts because nobody wanted to buy them. It's only control if you have options that you actually want.
Para, respectfully, if you frame your choices like this, you will always feel disempowered. You had other options. You could have moved home and mooched off your parents. You could have killed yourself. You could have taken three part-time jobs in an unrelated industry just to pay the bills. You could have self-published. You could post your novels on Wattpad.

You're self-supporting, in demand, and learning things about story from real life that will serve you if the day arrives where you want to SP or requery. You are making contacts.

Making this about them rejecting you, rather than you being a mismatch at one isolated period of your life, and you then artfully turning your strengths into a career, denigrates all your well-deserved success. *thwap* ;)

(((Lily))) You've been cursed with a 3-book deal and the expectations of an industry which are often unrealistic and self-fulfilling. Also, the steroids are messing with your mood. Do not believe the steroids.

Re comparison: Cindy is wise and I need to take her advice.
 

xiaotien

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you know? i think para
has every right to step off and
away from the rat race if she chooses
to. i've seen people made depressed
by this business--i myself have been
down and forced to verge of tears due to
author stuff TOTALY beyond my control.

and i am not one to be down OR cry.

i think knowing yourself and
protecting your own psyche and well
being comes first. because no one else
in the industry will be looking out for
your own mental health and well being
as much as yourself. NOT your agent.
NOT your editor.

and para could very well change her
mind on many things as she and the
industry continues to evolve.

staying in the rat race most certainly
not for everyone. we evaluate and make
our choices.
 

xiaotien

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and eta that i most certainly
think para is amazing and fabulous.
it is hard to be writing something not
fitting inside a tiny box of NORM right
now. trust that many of us puglets know.

para, how did sleep over go??? =)
 

Haupe

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you know? i think para
has every right to step off and
away from the rat race if she chooses
to.
Just to be clear, I 1000% agree. I left medicine because I was a square peg in a round hole, and I encountered a lot of second-guessing. But in the time(s) I let myself view it as a defeat, rather than a healthful and best choice for me and my family, it didn't feel like a positive decision. I slowly came to see otherwise, and to my astonishment, found some of the same naysayers who'd thought I should remain in practice saw me as a courage model. When they wanted to change their lives, they came to me for support.

All that's a long way of saying if I'm vehement about owning one's choices, it's because it made a huge difference to me for my happiness. But that's me.
 

mayqueen

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Congrats, Billie!!!!

(((Lily))) I don't have any good advice, other than to keep writing. It's hard to keep going when the external validation isn't there. Which is what I'd say to Para, too. I haven't quite figured out what that Means (capital m intentional), though. I'm dealing with this in terms of my research and all of the grant applications I've been filing for years and not getting. (And the manuscript that I've run out of agents to query on...) It's tough to find your motivation when the external validation isn't there and you sit there and watch your peers get it. I want to say, chin up, keep going, but sometimes you just save to sit down and say you've had enough for a minute. Not that my advice is worth anything. : )

--

Y'all, Medieval Times was so ridiculously fun. I was expecting it to be fun, but I didn't know how much fun it was going to be. Obviously all the sword fights and jousting and everything was over-the-top stage fighting, but it was so fun to get caught up in cheering for the (predetermined winner, ahem) guy representing our section. I was really impressed with the horses. Basically my twelve-year-old self was having a ball. I started eating birds again recently after about twelve years of being a vegetarian, so I was nervous about eating chicken with my hands. It was surprisingly fun. We also got a free bottle of wine on top of what we ordered. I didn't get to drink any, though, because I drove us all there.
 

Maryn

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I hope that in time, para will return to writing not for the frustration of seeking commercial publication but for the sheer joy of making a blank page into a world people want to enter.

I have so few credits for someone my age that I'm writing more for the enjoyment than for the commercial market. If I see a perfect slot for me, I submit, but I'm cool with letting the stuff live on my hard drive and in the hands of friends, too. I toy with self-pubbing, but the notion of marketing myself is too, too depressing.

Maryn, realist
 

OL

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X-Cin is wise, y'all. Listen to X-Cin. This means YOU, Lilly!

Para, really, seriously, I want to shake you. You're how old? And you've already written six novels? Listen. I have been writing all my life. I didn't figure out how to write something that would sell until I was almost 50 years old. FIFTY. Okay? Does that make me a big failure because it took me so long and all that other stuff I did was just a waste of time and I suck? I certainly hope not!

And it only sold because I had an agent who worked his ass off for me and never gave up. That's the "this is a tough business" part of the equation. But this other part, that you're a big failure because you haven't cracked it yet, that is just ridiculous, and terribly self-destructive.

I think I know what you're doing, I recognize that horrible circular, "I SUCK!!!" thinking. I used to engage in it a LOT when I was younger (and I still get stuck in that whirlpool on occasion). You're punishing yourself, and it's hard to get out of it. What Haupe said is also wise. You've created a successful niche for yourself, you're making money and that's incredibly impressive, and not an easy thing to do. You have plenty of time to write books. Or to NOT write books.

Okay, that's enough tough love from me. ((((hugs)))) because I think I know how you're feeling, and it's crappy.

Jo, I agree with what you said re: smaller businesses and personal contacts in publishing, etc. (I'd quote it but I'm already too deep into this post!). One thing I do want to say though...working at a film studio, there are a lot of really amazing, talented and competent folks working there. It's not this carnival circus of ego all the time, or there's no way these complicated projects would ever get made. Especially on the TV side, what it takes to do an hour of series television every week, it is a complicated job. The feature film production executives were some of my favorite people -- tough, practical and smart. It's the "creative" process that's really screwed up, not across the board -- and hey, if that process keeps generating huge hits, how screwed up is it, really? But there's a lot of waste and inefficiency and mediocrity that takes place, because you're trying to graft a corporate model on a creative business, and it's not always a good fit. The old studio system was a factory, too, but it still relied on executives' guts about what audiences want.

Amarie, on the agent thing, I so far haven't run into any reluctance on my agent's part to publish more. Granted, I haven't actually managed to WRITE more yet, but I'm gonna try! I do think there's some logic to staying within a genre when you're trying to establish yourself, just because that's easier to brand and market. But I've seen plenty of people writing in different genres, sometimes under different names, sometimes not. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules any more. It's about what works for the individual writer.

Oh, and what Billie said, too! A good agent requires a baseline of appropriate, timely communication, and is about supporting the author's CAREER, not just about a quick score, regardless of the amount of the advance.
 

SelmaW

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Wow, came in to a really interesting discussion. (((((hugs)))) all around.

I think a lot of this comes down to our individual perceptions of "success" and how far we want to adjust those. For a really long time all I wanted was to be trade published, but after a lot of "good" rejections that basically said my books didn't fit the category I was aiming for well enough, I had to re-assess and ask myself if I thought these books were worth putting out there, and how much I wanted to change them. In the end I decided I believed in them pretty much as they were. But someone else might make a completely different decision.
 

K. Taylor

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Para, going through life dwelling on negatives sucks out any joy you could otherwise find and feel. Stop it. You have years of options ahead of you.

Jo, you could always request Sharkbite go in early. If he evaluates as ready for kindergarten, then he's ready.

I have a June birthday but I was still younger than almost everybody else. Know who was driving first out of all my friends, though? Me. I chauffeured a lot of people junior and senior years. Age doesn't really matter.
 

dawinsor

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I've seen a lot of bits of writing from Purgies and sometimes read whole books, and I know people here are in the top 2% of those who sub to agents and editors. In addition to that, though, you need four other things to be in that top much tinier percentage that sells a lot of books. (1) Luck. (2) An agent/editor combination who believe your book will make money. (3) Feedback from someone who sees how to make your book the best it can be. And (4) the ability to resee your book and revise, using that feedback. I used to edit a scholarly journal and that last thing was what made the difference between those who published a lot and those who didn't. Some of this is the writer's control; some of it isn't.

But Xiao is right that we can decide to do some other thing. Not too long ago, she said she might self publish because a dozen people reading her book was better than no people. I've been thinking about that a lot lately.
 

Rick

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(((Lily))) Hang in there, and you'll get your Mojo back soon.

(((Fire))) Another hug for the convention snobbery. I've still got my fingers crossed that you'll get in.

(((Para))) You're still very young and there's plenty of time for you to write "that novel" that takes you where you want to go. If you quit, you'll definitely never get there. So keep writing - once you get your Mojo back too.

Great discussion in here today and lots of good advice. At first I thought they had opened the Pit back up.

I mentioned in a previous point that I'm amazed at the talent in Purgatory. There's no doubt in my mind that every Purgy whose writing I've read (probably two-thirds of all Purgies via either their books or Mash-up entries) has the necessary talent. Unfortunately it's a sad realization that it's not just about literary talent. Heck - several recent best-selling series became popular in spite of their literary talent. (or lack thereof)

To go back to my formula, in addition to basic literary talent, you need to come up with "that story" along with a large dose of luck. Unfortunately, it's hard to predict ahead of time what "that story" is or how you get that dose of good luck. The only way it will happen to you, however, is if you keep writing.


ETA: I forgot to add - Uuuugh! Kiddo's team came in 4th place this weekend. Kiddo is really disappointed - this is the first time this season they haven't won. Lynne and I were really surprised too, since the team's routine yesterday and today was really clean - no dropped fliers and really good timing. We talked to the coach afterwards and the issue was "difficulty". The team has rested on their laurels and hasn't increased the level of difficulty of their stunts (uhm - that's the coaches' fault), and some teams came in from Ohio and Connecticut and kicked Kiddo's team's butt. So they're gonna go tweak the routine and add more difficult stunts. Hopefully they'll get back to the top at their next meet.
 
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Dragonfly45

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(((Para))) Sometimes, you need to take a break to remember why you love it in the first place. That was definitely the case for me. I needed time away because I was getting super down in the dumps, and I just knew it wasn't going to happen. It seemed like it was working out for everyone around me. After a break, I started to approach it as something I loved doing again, and that's when things started to line up. So don't give it up all together, just maybe give up for a time--even big armies have to retreat and regroup sometimes.
 

JennW

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Just read through and repped but what a wise conversation in here. I've nothing to add as you all have said it so well but (((hugs))) all around. There is no easy path in this biz it seems and also different paths that work for different people. (group hug)
 
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