Middle Grade, Young Adult, Adult: How do you categorize your novel?

TheZenofLinda

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Knowing how to characterize your novel

I read a lot of YA and I still have trouble classifying my book as YA. It fits all the characteristics listed in the first, "sticky" post on this thread -- but it doesn't hit the YA market well because it's not dystopia but straight fantasy which is just not popular with agents right now.

I don't think it's a failure of the book itself (though maybe it is), because before I took a (very long) break from marketing it to have kids, and before a rewrite improved it immeasurably, I was getting requests from agents to read the full manuscript and getting positive responses (though it needed that rewrite to be sellable re: the positive agents).

So now I spend a lot of time dithering and changing the ages of the characters (and changing them back) as I try to see the book as YA or not YA. Then I start doing it with my other book...wish we didn't have all these categories!
 

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My two cents: you don't need to worry too much about whether it's MG or YA. The publisher will decide, so I would just concentrate on writing the best story you can, instead of trying to fit it into a certain demographic. Many authors (Neil Gaiman, Brandon Sanderson) have said when they focused on marketing and what would sell, the books ended up being less successful (creatively and commercially) than books that simply told the stories they wanted to tell. Rebecca Stead told me the same thing during a workshop.

And YA can be pretty broad. For example, Poison Study and Kingdom of Little Wounds are both YA but both contain violence, rape, and torture to main characters. I heard Poison Study was meant to be adult but the publisher decided it was YA. So I wouldn't worry about it since the publisher might end up changing it. Just write your story!
 

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My two cents: you don't need to worry too much about whether it's MG or YA. The publisher will decide

I disagree. In rare cases, a publisher (or a bookstore) may choose to market a book in a different age category than it was originally intended. This could be because the book feels more like it belongs in that other market or it straddles the line or that market is hot (as was probably the case with Poison Study) and possibly the author had to do some revision to make it fall in that market. But most of the time, if you query a book and don't know what market it belongs to, you're going to get rejected (or at the very least get, "try me again if you make this XX"). If your book is being marketed as MG with a 16yo MC and adult-book themes, not only are you showing your ignorance about that market, but from an agent or publisher's POV, who is this book going to appeal to?

Yes, just write your story. But you have to be aware of the market, if not in the first draft stage, at least in the revision and querying stages.
 

BreeC

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I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but what about NA (New Adult)? I know it's relatively new to categorize fiction here, so was just wondering if there will be a thread opening up for New Adult fiction?
 

Sage

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There are many threads about New Adult in the YA forum and a few in Novels forum. NA is still evolving into what it's going to be, so it's not really ready for a sticky of "what is NA?"
 

BreeC

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There are many threads about New Adult in the YA forum and a few in Novels forum. NA is still evolving into what it's going to be, so it's not really ready for a sticky of "what is NA?"

Ah, okay. Thanks for your help. :)
 

jtrylch13

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I would say it depends on the content of the story. Harry Potter would have been 13 in Azkaban, and I think that was still Upper MG. How old was Percy Jackson. I believe that is generally classified as YA, but ti had an Upper MG feel to me in the first couple books. I can't think of any others, but I bet they are out there.
 

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13 is not too old for MG. Remember that MG is geared for kids aged 8-12 and kids generally like to read about characters older then themselves. It would be upper MG, and personally, if I saw that a book had a 13 year old MC, I'd expect the story to have some edge to it.
 

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13 is on the cusp and can go either way. I have two author friends who recently had their 13yo MCs shelved as Teen when they intended them for an MG audience.
 

Sagml John

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I read the very first post to see if I could call my first book YA. It didn't exactly fail the test. This isn't from textbooks--just out of my head:

o I try to emulate Douglas Adams humor but I spell 'humor' correctly :)
o It is geeky when it comes to computers -- I think that may make it YA.
o The MC is middle aged -- Bummer, but I didn't see a teenage MC as a must...
o I sort of pontificate on social media -- Young adults may rip it to shreds since they are the real experts.
o G-rated language -- I believe stories can be great without the language but... I don't know... G rating may turn everyone off.
o It identifies the teen population as targeted by organizations with agendas because of their pliability -- may piss a teen off.
o My 18-yr old daughter likes the concepts -- makes me think I can call it YA.
o Teens guided by Tumblr posts can do stupid things -- back to pissing them off.

It is 58K complete. Think it can pass as YA?
 

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If your MC is middle aged, it automatically disqualifies the book from being YA. It is the most basic requirement for YA that the MCs are teens, sorry.
 

Latina Bunny

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I read the very first post to see if I could call my first book YA. It didn't exactly fail the test. This isn't from textbooks--just out of my head:

o I try to emulate Douglas Adams humor but I spell 'humor' correctly :)
o It is geeky when it comes to computers -- I think that may make it YA.
o The MC is middle aged -- Bummer, but I didn't see a teenage MC as a must...
o I sort of pontificate on social media -- Young adults may rip it to shreds since they are the real experts.
o G-rated language -- I believe stories can be great without the language but... I don't know... G rating may turn everyone off.
o It identifies the teen population as targeted by organizations with agendas because of their pliability -- may piss a teen off.
o My 18-yr old daughter likes the concepts -- makes me think I can call it YA.
o Teens guided by Tumblr posts can do stupid things -- back to pissing them off.

It is 58K complete. Think it can pass as YA?

Well, I think the middle-aged main character pretty much takes it out of YA...

But I would also think that lecturing, patronizing, and/or "pissing off" your teen audience may also not be a good thing in a YA book aimed at a teen audience. Teens would like to be respected, just like everyone else.

P.S.: It's okay to have characters do stupid things or mistakes, etc. No one's perfect. It's called being human.

I just object to any kind of patronizing generalizations about a whole group of people, who are varied human beings and who deserved to be respected as an audience. As a teen, I didn't like to be lectured, and I still don't like to be lectured, as an adult, either.
 
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giraffes 33

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I have a WIP that, to me, is unquestionably YA. The MC is seventeen and not an adult looking back on his past. The plot basis is 'teenagers trying to grow wings' -- the only series I can think of involving a similar basis are Maximum Ride and Generation Icarus, both YA. I am seventeen, and I'd like to think I can depict teenagers accurately.

Except everyone I show it to says it doesn't sound YA at all. On review, I agree with them, though I don't think that's a bad thing (I can't relate to 'traditional' YA voice). I'm fine with writing an atypical YA -- worst case scenario I decide writing YA isn't for me, best case scenario it's popular enough to change our concept of what YA must be -- but I don't want to write something that completely abandons the genre. On the other hand, is it even possible for something told through the eyes of a teenager to deviate that far from YA?
 
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Latina Bunny

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I have a WIP that, to me, is unquestionably YA. The MC is seventeen and not an adult looking back on his past. The plot basis is 'teenagers trying to grow wings' -- the only series I can think of involving a similar basis are Maximum Ride and Generation Icarus, both YA. I am seventeen, and I'd like to think I can depict teenagers accurately.

Except everyone I show it to says it doesn't sound YA at all. On review, I agree with them, though I don't think that's a bad thing (I can't relate to 'traditional' YA voice). I'm fine with writing an atypical YA -- worst case scenario I decide writing YA isn't for me, best case scenario it's popular enough to change our concept of what YA must be -- but I don't want to write something that completely abandons the genre. On the other hand, is it even possible for something told through the eyes of a teenager to deviate that far from YA?

I think it depends on the themes. Does the story contain coming of age elements, for example? Issues that teens can relate to (ex: discovering self-identity; peer pressure; etc)?

You can have an adult book that happens to have a teenage main character. There are adult books out there that have children and/or teens as major characters in the story.

As a teen, I read adult books (alongside some MG), not just "teen" books, because YA was not really a category while I was growing up. (I think that's why I struggle with YA stuff.)

Maybe you're writing an adult book that happens to have a teen character?
 
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Sage

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Are the people who are telling you this avid readers of YA? A lot of people who don't read YA think they know what YA has to be like. Even if they are, that doesn't mean that your book can't fit into YA. It may be a harder sell. However, it also could be that they're right, that it doesn't read like a book intended for a teen audience, despite the fact that you are a teen. I will point out that some teens prefer to skip ahead to adult, so it shows that to meet their tastes, they would probably write a book that would fit an adult market, even though they might write teen MCs and are teens themselves. It could just be that your own tastes run that way.

In other news, have you read The Strange and Beautiful Sorrows of Ava Lavender. It is YA, has a winged girl, and sometimes people wonder why it is YA. May be your cup of tea.
 

emmajmcwill

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My characters start my series at a range of about 16-18, which will put them being 20-22 at the end of the four book series. I would say it's Upper YA despite the fact that a few of the characters are a little older--I've read quite a few YA series that start with the protags in their late teens and end with them being college-aged/early twenties (and, if you wanna get technical, psychologists are now saying that adolescence extends past when we have traditionally thought it to, well into your early-to-mid-twenties). Also, I feel like setting is important to help determine the YA/Adult distinction--mine is a school/apprenticeship/coming of age story so it definitely will still feel like YA even when my characters are a little older.
 

emmajmcwill

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I have a WIP that, to me, is unquestionably YA. The MC is seventeen and not an adult looking back on his past. The plot basis is 'teenagers trying to grow wings' -- the only series I can think of involving a similar basis are Maximum Ride and Generation Icarus, both YA. I am seventeen, and I'd like to think I can depict teenagers accurately.

Except everyone I show it to says it doesn't sound YA at all. On review, I agree with them, though I don't think that's a bad thing (I can't relate to 'traditional' YA voice). I'm fine with writing an atypical YA -- worst case scenario I decide writing YA isn't for me, best case scenario it's popular enough to change our concept of what YA must be -- but I don't want to write something that completely abandons the genre. On the other hand, is it even possible for something told through the eyes of a teenager to deviate that far from YA?

Keep in mind that our current idea of YA was pretty much defined by the Harry Potter/Twilight/Hunger Games generation so anything is possible--just because you're writing something that isn't similar to one of those doesn't mean that YA won't possibly sound more like what you're writing in future!!
EDITED BECAUSE I USED THE WRONG YOUR/YOU'RE VARIANT :p
 
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NaturesPuree

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I read something in one of the agency websites that YA should be around 70K to 99K in words. This agent claims that publishers will not look at YA below or above that mark. So it goes....

This is where it is useful to research agent preferences. You'll find many agents who mention, in interviews, that they aren't particularly concerned with word counts--within reason--as long as the author writes a good pitch.
 

NaturesPuree

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The thing about middlegrade is that it can be tricky to specify it's place in the market. Percy Jackson, Harry Potter and Artemis Fowl, for instance, all sold as Children's books. However, as you proceed further into the series, the target audience changes (in HP especially). I was just down at my local library and discovered that Percy Jackson was in the YA section.

I recently finished my latest project (a 120,000 word story bordering MG and YA), needing to cut nearly 30,000 words. Due to the age-group ambiguity of my novel, I'm considering pitching it as a YA, allowing me an extra word count cushion.

Also, it's worth noting that fantasy MG and YA are expected to be longer, due to world building.
 

Thick Skin

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I have a general question regarding YA literature: Is the bulk of this work aimed at a female audience? And is the MC usually female?

I have written an epic fantasy coming of age novel. I think it has enormous crossover potential with the YA market, however, my MC is male.

Is there a market for YA literature among males aged 16-20? My MC is a young soldier, aged 19, who suddenly finds himself overwhelmed when his father is killed and he inherits the kingdom.

I have three nieces (or should I say, three beta readers :)) and they love the book. But my novel definitely resonates far stronger among male agents. Female agents just can't seem to "connect". Whatever that means.
 

Cyia

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I have a general question regarding YA literature: Is the bulk of this work aimed at a female audience? And is the MC usually female?

Yes, and yes. There's a self-fulfilling prophecy in publishing that boy's don't read much YA, so not much "boy" YA gets published. Consequently, when looking for something in the YA section that might appeal to non-romance or "boy" readers, there's often a dearth of material, so those readers go elsewhere, completing the circle of assumption.

I have written an epic fantasy coming of age novel. I think it has enormous crossover potential with the YA market, however, my MC is male.

That's fine. There are several books with male MC's in them. Be aware, however, that epic fantasy often has young protags, but isn't always YA or MG. The Song of Ice and Fire novels have mostly teen and pre-teen narrators, but they definitely aren't marketed as YA. Lord of the Rings stars what correlates to a teenage hobbit, but it's not YA, either. Same with Star Wars. Same with Shannara. You might have an adult novel with a young hero.

Is there a market for YA literature among males aged 16-20? My MC is a young soldier, aged 19, who suddenly finds himself overwhelmed when his father is killed and he inherits the kingdom.

Ah, not YA then. YA is *usually* 14-18, with the MC being in a "child-status" role in their society. They may be kings, or queens, or freedom fighters, but they're still in the coming of age category. Actual readership aside, YA is aimed at high schoolers, so 20 year-olds are outside the technical target area. If you dropped his age to 17, you might have something that better fits with YA convention. "Cross-over" is a marketing strategy that you don't really get a say in.

I have three nieces (or should I say, three beta readers :)) and they love the book. But my novel definitely resonates far stronger among male agents. Female agents just can't seem to "connect". Whatever that means.

Most people's beta-nieces love their work. I also got more responses from male agents than female ones, then signed with a woman. Go figure. :Shrug:There are some awesome men in agenting, and there are some awesome women in agenting. Just make sure whoever you end up with is a legit agent from a legit agency, and go for it.

Good luck.
 

MaryH

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There are two main camps. Some will categorize a novel by the age of the characters it is written about, while others will categorize a novel based on the age/audience that a book written for. This is not always the same. This allows for overlap in terms of word count, etc., but also opens the door for some contradiction and confusion. For example, many novels are written about teens, but clearly deal with adult themes in an adult voice, and appeal to adult audiences. For the most part, you should choose what camp you prefer to be in when categorizing your novels. Market your novel based upon how it feels right to you. However, you may note that certain agents lean toward one camp or another, and if you want to work with them, you should market your story accordingly.
 

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I disagree. In rare cases, a publisher (or a bookstore) may choose to market a book in a different age category than it was originally intended. This could be because the book feels more like it belongs in that other market or it straddles the line or that market is hot (as was probably the case with Poison Study) and possibly the author had to do some revision to make it fall in that market. But most of the time, if you query a book and don't know what market it belongs to, you're going to get rejected (or at the very least get, "try me again if you make this XX"). If your book is being marketed as MG with a 16yo MC and adult-book themes, not only are you showing your ignorance about that market, but from an agent or publisher's POV, who is this book going to appeal to?

Yes, just write your story. But you have to be aware of the market, if not in the first draft stage, at least in the revision and querying stages.


Sage,
This is my problem. I originally worked on an idea for a series with Harper Collins and the target audience was MG. My present self published book grew out of that process but it definitely straddles MG and YA (and incidentally would everyone agree that something like Harry Potter does that?). Before I self published I went through beta reads and my reviewers were split on who to pitch the book to. Is it worth me soliciting readers now (I know others offer the book free or cover the price with an Amazon voucher) even though the book is published - to try and get specific feedback about age range?