are you an outline writer or write by the seat of your pants?

DaisyH said:

For me, I find that outlining too much sort of kills the excitement of writing for me. I end up thinking "Well, I already know everything that happens," and end up not writing the full novel.

I'm trying a new method where I just outline the premise, the background and a few major plot points that happen in the first half of the novel and just go from there. I'll probably stop halfway and do that again though, once I have a better idea of where the story is going.

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I'm the exact same! Unfortunately, it took me years to realize that when I planned too much detail, or too far ahead, my brain seemed to feel that the story had already been told, so no need to bother writing it down. However, I do benefit from knowing what exactly the conflict is. Once I know it, I can write around that pretty intuitively.

I used to (er, still do, sometimes) suffer from Chronic Story Starting Syndrome. I would have a premise, and run with it, but not knowing what the actual conflict was, I would fizzle out and, at a loss for what to do, either plan it in detail (and lose interest) or try to muddle through, and just give up in frustration. There was always something shiny and new to start, after all...

Qui Amat Scribere said:

I'm the exact same! Unfortunately, it took me years to realize that when I planned too much detail, or too far ahead, my brain seemed to feel that the story had already been told, so no need to bother writing it down. However, I do benefit from knowing what exactly the conflict is. Once I know it, I can write around that pretty intuitively.

I used to (er, still do, sometimes) suffer from Chronic Story Starting Syndrome. I would have a premise, and run with it, but not knowing what the actual conflict was, I would fizzle out and, at a loss for what to do, either plan it in detail (and lose interest) or try to muddle through, and just give up in frustration. There was always something shiny and new to start, after all...

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I have the same problem too. Wrote a draft, completely rethought my story, did a ton of planning and plotting... Then when I sit down, almost no words at all come out. I still haven't figured out what the primary conflict is yet.

Iron Thunder said:

I have the same problem too. Wrote a draft, completely rethought my story, did a ton of planning and plotting... Then when I sit down, almost no words at all come out. I still haven't figured out what the primary conflict is yet.

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I'm at that point too. I think I became too comfortable with that fact that I follow my own rules with the whole planning and outlining that it just kills everything for me. Nothing comes out when I want to write. I may end up trying the minimal outline and planning or just wing the entire thing and experiment on that and see where it takes me.

I'm a loose plotter, as in I like to understand the big picture before I get down into the fine details. It helps me to keep on track. It usually takes less than a page.

I need my outline. I can write scenes on the fly but I have to have all the major storyline and plot twists figured out before I can really write. I have the final scene of my five book series already figured out and I'm only on book three.

I'm mostly a panster. Give me some paper and a pencil, and I'll just start writing a situation on the fly. It may not connect to any story, but the blank page doesn't scare me.

When it comes to writing something of any length though, I do have a basic idea of an end to the story/conflict. Sometimes I have a very visual image of the entire ending scene. I've tried to plot things out, but I just feel too constrained afterwards ... I feel like my characters have lost their ability to grow by themselves. For me to enjoy my writing, my characters seem to have a strict requirement of no boundaries; they've got to breath all on their own, they have to find their own way, speak their own voice and often times they surprise me because of this.

So I pants, but I do know the beginning and a vague end.

I need an outline like a fish needs water. I'm left gasping and flopping around with a silly look on my face without one.

My stories tend to be plot-heavy and twisty-turny and foreshadowy and whatnot, so I have to have EVERYTHING mapped out down to a fine detail before I feel confident enough to start writing. I tried NaNo-ing one of my plot-heavy ideas once, aaaaand I blew it. I can't go back and fix it because the thought of that kind of breaks my brain. I wouldn't know where to start! I'd have to completely rewrite it, and I just don't care enough anymore. The thing is written. I'm done.

I am so not making that mistake again! I've gone back to outlining, and in a very big way. I can't wrap my mind around writing in drafts AT ALL, so I prefer to have drafts of my outline instead - first draft is a rough sketch of what needs to happen in the book, second draft breaks it down into chapters, the next into scenes, the next dialogue is added in script format, and only THEN comes the narrative to sew everything together. It seems to work for me! Fewer dangling threads and side plots I forgot to add.

Pantster 100%.

I mostly write without an outline, but I write all kinds of scenes before starting the real thing. And I do write a bastard child of a query letter and a synopsis just to see what dots need to be connected and how. Also, I can't write if I know the ending so full outlines would just make me bored with the story. I need room to explore, and if the characters lead me somewhere new, that's where I'll go. Although a friend who does full outlines says that she does the same.

Whatever works for you, I guess.

I normally layout the whole novel in my head, stop writing for a month, forget the whole thing.

I think that sums it up

I prefer to pants the first act... to keep things exciting and mysterious and just heap as much trouble on my MC as I can. I throw in whatever would make me look forward to what's coming next. Then I sit down to look at what I've got and to carefully plot out the rest of the book.

I'll be able to see what the book needs and what I've got to work with, and go from there. Anyone who's tried to plot from scratch probably knows how insanely hard it is to come up with and hold a book's worth of detail in your head, not to mention the sheer amount of little context-specific things you're bound to miss.

The only problem is that sometimes you're stuck with this absolutely mindblowing opening and you genuinely have no idea where to go with it, or how you can make the rest of the story live up to it

Qui Amat Scribere said:

I'm the exact same! Unfortunately, it took me years to realize that when I planned too much detail, or too far ahead, my brain seemed to feel that the story had already been told, so no need to bother writing it down.

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I've never had that problem. I know that getting directions to my friend's house is not the same as what we do when I go there to visit. Each drive is different if for no other reason I encounter different drivers on the road.

The outline is the same. Having a set of directions for the story is not at all like writing the story. I may know what happens, but I don't know how. Writing a convincing scene to get to the next plot point is its own challenge. Besides, my characters always grow before my eyes and often times a new plot arc I hadn't considered unravels itself. Something I can add to my map and develop.

The most important part is I can watch those deviations with an idea of how they relate to my story. Sometimes it's a good thing to nip a scene in the bud even if it could prove interesting. Much easier than writing it out and discovering once the manuscript is done.

That's my software develop background helping me out. I know from experience that the earlier in the development process that a bug is discovered, the easier and cheaper it is to correct. Finding a bad scene in an outline is much easier to correct than finding it during the editing process. Cutting it then probably eliminates a lot of work that improves the story and is worth saving.

I do this tremendously inefficient thing where I'll write half the story, then decide on where the plot is going, write an outline, scrap the original, and then start again with an actual plot in mind. I've tried tweaking the original version so it works with the plot but that always leaves me with mediocre work.

It sucks, to be honest. I don't even do it on purpose. I just can't come up with a great plot if I do it any other way. -_-

The last time I tried writing without any preparation what so ever, it was an agonizing process that took me three days to finish one short piece. When I re-read the manuscript, I thought "meh." With practice, I might be able to find a better way, like thoroughly plotting out characters before hand or getting a better grasp of the setting.

For longer projects, I work much faster with an outline. I'm always willing to be flexible, but I already know the most important things before words hit paper. One new technique I've tried is writing character speeches (spoken as if the novel hasn't happened yet). These allow me to play with how a character's personality will affect their tone of voice. It's pretty helpful.

sayamini said:

I do this tremendously inefficient thing where I'll write half the story, then decide on where the plot is going, write an outline, scrap the original, and then start again with an actual plot in mind. I've tried tweaking the original version so it works with the plot but that always leaves me with mediocre work.

It sucks, to be honest. I don't even do it on purpose. I just can't come up with a great plot if I do it any other way. -_-

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If it works, it works.

sayamini said:

It sucks, to be honest. I don't even do it on purpose. I just can't come up with a great plot if I do it any other way. -_-

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To slightly revise the famous misquote,

"Writing is like sausage, it is better not to see it being made."

I am British and here one does like to talk about pants in public.

I outlined for the first time last year due to the NaNoWriMo rules of not having written a word before November. I then finished a novel in 26 days after 27 years of failures. A success for outlining? No, the only scene that survived from the outline was the opening one.

I write chapters based on what has happened in the previous chapters. My preferred term is first reader writing. In other words I write as the first reader of the book and it would be so boring if I knew the ending. I might guess what the ending will be, but I like it if the author surprises me.

My first failed attempt at writing an outline and using it was in 2013, 15 years after I was awarded a PhD, so the notion that non-fiction has to outlined is (to quote one of my professors) nonsense on stilts.

Originally Posted by Qui Amat Scribere
I'm the exact same! Unfortunately, it took me years to realize that when I planned too much detail, or too far ahead, my brain seemed to feel that the story had already been told, so no need to bother writing it down.

same here. strictly by the pants with only a general idea as to the resolution of the conflict. the only one I've ever outlined is a horror/paranormal story. http://absolutewrite.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

Reziac said:

To slightly revise the famous misquote,

"Writing is like sausage, it is better not to see it being made."

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mmm, sausage.

I absolutely used to personally be against planning, because in school I hated writing outlines and synopses. I found them stiffing and didn't see the point because often they would ask for them for very short papers where I already knew what I was doing. I associated them with passion-killing work, so I did everything but that.

Since writing my first novel, though, I learned SO much about structure, and while I can't say I prefer extensive planning, I see where a lot of the worth in it is now. Editing my previous projects, even when I did outline each of the scenes I had planned, etc, I had trouble with the damn novel. I think because I had failed to consider the overall structure. I knew enough of my story, and as I wrote I kept coming up with more ideas, and as I put things on the page they turned out not necessarily any differently than I envisioned, but the detail that comes out of actually writing a scene rather than envisioning what a scene, made so many more opportunities. So I ran into a problem where my story idea had started manageable, and sprawled into something much bigger than at the time I was capable of handling.

So now I plan. Not a lot, but I do try to keep track of my overall story structure. I don't know every scene, or every way I will transition from one thing or another, but I know at every point where I'm headed globally and immediately, and that keeps me from having a novel that becomes a sprawling mess. I found so much of the scenes I wanted to write started out non-essential to the overall plot, and removable, but the more I wrote, the more I saw how I could connect every scene and motivation and passing remark to something out, so even pulling out a scene I knew should not have been there to fix pacing, or something, would cause all sorts of problems. It turned into a disaster. So now I plan.

I used to feel like "planning" was telling my story in a crappy way, but since I had already gotten it out of me and there are so many more floating around in my head, I should just move on to something else before that idea disappeared. So I learned discipline and how to remain structured and maintain the mystery of discovering the words on the blank page.

I don't like most kinds of global advice or anyone who declares "this is the way you absolutely must plot/write your characters, or it won't turn out well," something I have my friends who are newer at writing struggling to sort out, because everyone is at a different place and with different sorts of writing skills. What's going to make me successful now is different than a year ago.

So TLR, as I've seen people say, I'm not sure you could claim anyone is any particular category. We're all just crazy people listening to the voices in our heads anyway. Why do we need to worry about what they say and how they talk to us?

Not that anyone was worried, but you know.

I have to keep writing, because otherwise I won't know what happens to my characters.

Most people are a little bit of both, planner AND improvisor.

I'm a pantser, but I consider my first draft my outline.

I pretty much need my outlines. They allow me to write effectively and quickly with far fewer plot holes because they've already been worked out.

I've tried just writing and making the plot as I went. It took me almost three times as long as normal. Not to mention it was an absolute disaster. I won't be going back to it at all. I could probably fix it without too much fuss. I just have no interest in it though. It drained me and I'm still feeling it.

Give me an outline and I'll be happy.

A bit of both for me.

Before I begin a story, I start on an outline. But, I know that while writing, things will change, causing the path of the story to shift. So, I work on the outline as I go. Even then, it's more of a guideline for me.