strong, believable & accurate heroines

Flicka · Feb 12, 2015

greendragon said:
I'm having similar issues with the MCs in my current WIP. Set in 1745 Ireland, part of the Traveller culture (Tinkers/gypsies). The female MC is married off by her father without her consent. Normally in this culture, females are given veto power, so to speak, but she's turned too many men down or driven them off with her shrewish nature, so now her father is putting down his foot. I'm struggling with how much (if any) recourse she would have. The male MC is chasing after them, hoping to spirit her away, but she is legally married already, so I'm trying to find a way (other than killing off the husband?) that he can do so based on the mores of the time.

Though strictly speaking, you couldn't be legally be married without your consent in Ireland in the 1740s. A female had to be over 12 and give verbal consent, those were the only hard requirements in 18th century Ireland. So I'm not 100% the marriage would be legally binding if it didn't involve her speaking her consent.Though if she's married in the eyes of her family, they probably don't care about the legality...

I have a link to a google book from the early 1800s on Irish marriage law (which was not affected by the legal changes in the English marriage act of the 1750s) somewhere that might give you some ideas - do you want me to chase it down for you?

greendragon · Feb 13, 2015

Flicka said:
Though strictly speaking, you couldn't be legally be married without your consent in Ireland in the 1740s. A female had to be over 12 and give verbal consent, those were the only hard requirements in 18th century Ireland. So I'm not 100% the marriage would be legally binding if it didn't involve her speaking her consent.Though if she's married in the eyes of her family, they probably don't care about the legality...

I have a link to a google book from the early 1800s on Irish marriage law (which was not affected by the legal changes in the English marriage act of the 1750s) somewhere that might give you some ideas - do you want me to chase it down for you?

I would love that! I tried to find out, specifically in the Traveller community, what would be expected, and what would be forbidden. I do have the MC protesting that it wasn't right, that she was allowed the right to refuse. But she had refused many suitors before, and her father beat her. She is consenting only because of the threat of physical violence from her father.

gothicangel · Feb 13, 2015

I would also add, that it is wrong for us to think that women in any time in the past were this homogenous social group that lived a cloistered life, confined to the home. This may have been true for a small number of elite women, but for the majority they would have been much more visible than we think. Women will have worked alongside their husbands, participating in religious festivals etc. Just because they were limited in their civic role, it doesn't mean they weren't economically active. I have a brilliant article on Athenian Women, but its only readable with JSTOR access.

Take for example, until recently most Ancient Historians have accepted that a Roman military camp/garrison was a woman free zone (except for the commander's family). Lo and behold about a month ago, for the first time a historian has identified a number of women on Trajan's Column (which is backed up by archaeological finds at Vindolanda).

My point is, don't fall into the trap of thinking that all historical women where cloistered and invisible.

RoadTripDog · Apr 1, 2015

It is impossible to tell the truth about the past.
My mother has become an angel; she couldn't possibly have been.
Edward G. Robinson

msza45 · Apr 2, 2015

CWatts said:
There is indeed a whole lot to think about.

I admit that I may have punted on the issue with my Southern gentlemen. The male lead in my Reconstruction novel had lived in the north (as well as in Europe) and came home just before the war when his mother was dying and then to settle her estate. I *might* have the enslaved heroine willed to him, but more likely I see him "hiring" her from a relative who owned her - since he doesn't plan to settle down but does need a housekeeper, etc. The fact she leaves him (now her lover and father of her two small children) when Union troops arrive is kind of a questionable decision, but he was still a master to an extent, and staying with him kept her in contact with her actual owner. Now that I am a mother I am struggling with her decision, but she is afraid of her children being sold away, and there is an inciting incident where he really lets her down.

Both the anti-hero/well-meaning antagonist in that novel and (different) male lead in my 1870s work were Confederate soldiers, but never actually owned slaves - because they were too young, under the age of majority which was then 21. The latter was one of the adolescent VMI cadets at the Battle of New Market. Of course "young masters" were historically among the worst in terms of sexually abusing female slaves - teen hormones + absolute power is an extremely bad combination - and part of the reason my freedwoman was hired out is that her former childhood playmate was getting a little too interested in her and his mother couldn't stand "that [blank] tempting him to sin" (grrr). Both young men find themselves downwardly mobile and having to compete for what they thought they were entitled to.

Ha, I can relate to your 'punting.' I have also shirked from the issue of slavery. It is interesting to see how you have done it.

My story takes place in 1773. The protagonist is a from one of those Old Families that typically had slaves, but fortunately for me his father lost the family fortune and had to sell the slaves when my protagonist was a child.

It feels cheap --like I'm unwilling to confront reality -- but I don't feel comfortable making him a slave owner.

CWatts · Apr 2, 2015

msza45 said:
Ha, I can relate to your 'punting.' I have also shirked from the issue of slavery. It is interesting to see how you have done it.

My story takes place in 1773. The protagonist is a from one of those Old Families that typically had slaves, but fortunately for me his father lost the family fortune and had to sell the slaves when my protagonist was a child.

It feels cheap --like I'm unwilling to confront reality -- but I don't feel comfortable making him a slave owner.

I know what you mean...I wonder if in the future, fictional protagonists of the early 21st century will all be vegans who bike to work and spend their weekends officiating gay weddings?

strong, believable & accurate heroines

Flicka

Dull Old Person

greendragon

gothicangel

Toughen up.

RoadTripDog

msza45

New Fish; Stuck on the Dang Hook

CWatts

down the rabbit hole of research...

strong, believable & *accurate* heroines

Flicka

Dull Old Person

greendragon

gothicangel

Toughen up.

RoadTripDog

msza45

New Fish; Stuck on the Dang Hook

CWatts

down the rabbit hole of research...

strong, believable & accurate heroines