Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 2

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
The person you bounce ideas off while in the process of writing is usually called a writing partner, crit partner, or, sometimes, alpha reader. A writers' group can serve the function.

For me, a beta reader gives me the reaction of the person-on-the-street to the final product.

From the film making perspective: think of the difference between the daily rushes and the test audience/focus group.
 

Grunkins

Grand adventurer of the couch
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
490
Reaction score
32
Uncle Jim,

I started a thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282577) in the Basic Writing Questions forum, but I'm not getting the concrete rules I'm looking for. Thought I'd bring it to you. You being both a SF writer and a former Navy man can probably help.

I'm looking for a rule regarding the usage of the definite article "the" in referring to the name of a ship (if the ship does not have "The" as part of its proper name).

The Millennium Falcon is just properly named Millennium Falcon but is always referred to as "the Millennium Falcon".

As was pointed out in that thread Navy ships are never referred to using the indefinite article. (Is this true?)

I consulted both the Chicago Manual of Style and the AP Stylebook, and neither helped (the AP Stylebook gave two examples of ship names, and in one used the definite article "the"--lower case "t", not a part of the proper name of the ship--and in the other did not).

Is there a hard and fast rule here?
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
Yes, there is a rule: Ships' names do not take a definite article. They're names. When you're talking about your friend Bill Rogers you don't call him "the Bill Rogers," do you?

(Exception to this is when you want to emphasis that you're talking about a particular/famous one:
"I learned guitar from Charlie Manson."

"The Charlie Manson?"

"Yeah."​
In the same way:
"I served on USS Forrestal."

"The Forrestal?"

"Yeah."​
(For the benefit of the civilians in the audience, the USS Forrestal is the one that had the fire.))
 
Last edited:

Sandbar

Drama princess
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
104
Reaction score
19
Location
USA
I don't think this is something I'm under any obligation to learn, just as I'm not under any obligation to beta-read manuscripts that aren't proofread to a certain standard. And since there are no objective standards that operate here, I see no reason why I shouldn't have my own standard of what I will or won't beta-read.

Well, and there's the thing: you're not under any obligation to beta-read manuscripts, period. Unless you're getting paid for it, in money or in kind (returned favor, a lot of alcohol, whatever), you're doing it because you're just a swell human being, and we as writers need to bear that in mind and not abuse our betas.
 

Marian Perera

starting over
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
14,333
Reaction score
4,578
Location
Heaven is a place on earth called Toronto.
Website
www.marianperera.com
Thanks, Sandbar.

And just to explain: it's not like this was a marvelous story that was keeping me intrigued and entertained, except for a few typos that I got all pissy about. Unfortunately the story had significant problems with characterization and plot.

Which I can deal with. No one starts out a great writer. But the dozens of typos on top of everything else were the last straw. Especially since they weren't consistent, giving me the impression that the writer did know the correct spelling and punctuation, but just hadn't applied it or proofread the story before sending it to me.

If the story's great, or even good and proofread, I'm not going to complain about one typo on every page. But when the story's not holding my attention, it's only too easy to notice several typos, and in that case, I have a rule of thumb which will give me a way out when the story's not working for me in any aspect.
 

beckethm

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
1,443
Reaction score
466
Location
St. Paul
Well, and there's the thing: you're not under any obligation to beta-read manuscripts, period. Unless you're getting paid for it, in money or in kind (returned favor, a lot of alcohol, whatever), you're doing it because you're just a swell human being, and we as writers need to bear that in mind and not abuse our betas.

Maybe this topic has already been flogged to death, but I want to amplify this point.

To me, proofreading one's work before sharing it with others (beta readers or critique partners) is a professional courtesy. It shows respect for the reader and it shows the author is serious about his or her work. Sending off a manuscript riddled with errors (and I'm talking here about more than the occasional typo) gives the impression, rightly or wrongly, that the author has not put much time or effort into the writing.

There's a practical aspect to this as well. Critiquers are only going to devote a finite amount of time to any given piece. Do you want your critiquer to spend that time circling spelling and punctuation errors or paying attention to plot, characterization, pacing, and other things that can improve the story?

I never share work with others unless it's gone through at least one editing pass. I want critiquers to find the flaws I can't see, not the stuff I can fix myself.
 

Sandbar

Drama princess
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
104
Reaction score
19
Location
USA
The other thing you kind of want to keep in mind is whether or not you and your beta are living in the same country. I've a lovely writing partner in Australia (I'm in the US). There are punctuation, and of course spelling, differences between the two. She's willing to live with my American writing if I don't screw it up (and vice versa)-- but if I don't even follow my own rules, it makes her head explode.

Just another variation on Respect Your Fellow Writer, yeah?
 

dinrao

Registered
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Mexico
Multiple characters question

Hello Uncle Jim,
I just joined AW forums, but I've been reading this monster thread on and off for a while. Thanks for all the advice!

I have a question regarding multiple characters in a novel. So I did a huge outline as recommended, and the novel consists of 4 characters with tangential connection between the 4 storylines, that all converge in the end. How do you suggest I go about writing it? I mean, is it better to start and finish one storyline before the next one, or write it like I envision it in the book with alternating storylines? Thanks a ton!
 

Ink-Pen-Paper

Life Is Full Of Stories
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
182
Reaction score
23
Location
Washington, D.C. area
Website
what-me.com
The infrequent visitor returns. A couple years ago I started my first full length cozy, Red Line to Shady Grove. It sits, fermenting, waiting to be reread and polished. Red Light on the Green Line is up to chapter three. The second work is easier because the technical issues are understood and no longer of concern. I do enjoy focusing on my story rather than how to of the technics.
 
Last edited:

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
I mean, is it better to start and finish one storyline before the next one, or write it like I envision it in the book with alternating storylines?

I generally write it in the order I envision the novel, with occasional extra scenes as they occur to me, but that may not be the way that works for you.

What works for you is the major consideration. Try, see if one way works. Then try the other way. See if it works.

There is no right way. There's only what works for you.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
Where I'll be this weekend: Arisia

Time Travel, Therapy, & the Quest for Redemption Faneuil Literature Sat 1:00 PM 01:15
Description Time travel allows writers to explore a fundamental human longing: to change what cannot be changed. Protagonists go back in order to fix the crucial moments that shaped their lives. Usually these attempts backfire - sometimes the past does not allow itself to be changed, sometimes changing the past creates a new range of problems, and sometimes changing the past does not cure the ache in the protagonist's soul. Is time travel a parable for the therapeutic mining of our personal histories?

Reading: Doyle, Macdonald, and Nelson Hale Writing Sun 10:00 AM 01:15
Description Authors Debra Doyle, James Macdonald, and Resa Nelson read selections from their works.


Autograph - Kimmel, Macdonald, & Nurenberg Galleria - Autograph Space Writing Sun 11:30 AM 01:15
Description Autograph session with Daniel M. Kimmel, James Macdonald, and David Nurenberg.
 

HeavyAirship

Aboard my phaneron.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
269
Reaction score
27
Hi Jim I'm new to this site and new to writing as well. I've been looking through volume 1 of this thread and it's been extremely helpful so far so thank you for your time and effort in shepherding those less experienced than yourself.

I was wondering if you could give me some tips about writing characters who are of a different gender than myself. I grew up in a family of boys and I was home-schooled so I did't get a lot of interaction with the opposite sex as you can imagine. The only tips I've been able to find thus far are of the -what not to do- kind, most of which were pretty obvious.

I'm writing a novel and I'll be coming up on the part where I am introducing a major female character and I'd like to do a decent job.

Anyone else can chime in as well if they wish. Thanks :)
 

dondomat

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
225
Hey, Heavy Airship, if you're just getting out of the family and into the wide world, the advice is: live your life and meet people. Accumulate experience. Write what you are comfortable with. When you've mixed with random folks for long enough, you'll have all the material you want and more.

Version 2, easier way: watch TV and read books and take notes how the female characters behave. You won't be dealing with 'the source' but with 'interpretations of interpretations', but that's OK; if anyone asks just say you're being postmodern. ;)
 

Mitch Wagner

Registered
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
15
Reaction score
1
I'm dealing with the same problems -- or was. I'm older than you, married with friends who are women. I've got two works-in-progress with heroines.

I just write them based on how the character seems to me, same as I would for a man.
 

Sovay

Registered
Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Dear Uncle Jim--First, I'd like to thank you for years of great teaching. I've lurked here at AW for a while now listening in on the conversation and learning. Now, I could use a bit of advice. I finally BIC'ed and since April I have written about 35,000 words on my novel. I am in the mushy middle (which I finally understand!)and I am having a hard time. In trying to pinpoint the problem, I have realized that I have morphed genres, and what started as a fantasy novel with a mystery on the side has become a mystery novel with a few fantasy elements. I am OK with that, but I am realizing that most of my work so far is going to need massive, huge, stunning overhauls. Which I am also OK with. Now the question--at what point should one just salvage the scraps and start over? Would you power through to the end, modifying as well as you can and then revising, or would you just pull what you can use and start the rewrite?
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
Would you power through to the end, modifying as well as you can and then revising, or would you just pull what you can use and start the rewrite?

I wouldn't worry about it. I'd continue to The End, then see what I had for the second draft. The second draft may be a whole lot of work, but 'til you have the words on the paper you don't have anything to work with.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
I was wondering if you could give me some tips about writing characters who are of a different gender than myself.

Look deep within yourself. No one is 100% anything. Also, the differences between males and women, as groups, are smaller than the differences between the ends of the ranges of women, and the ends of the ranges as males.
 

euclid

Where did I put me specs?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
1,964
Reaction score
229
Location
Paradise
Website
www.jjtoner.com
Hi Jim, I think I may have been under the influence of something or someone when I posted that about Zog's Law, in July 2014. Anyway, it was good to hear from you. :)